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Julio 21 Feb 2008 22:34

Stolen Photo on Ebay
 
All

Just a quick heads up. One of my contacts emailed to let me know that someone was selling one of my Photos on birthday cards on Ebay. I have emailed the worm to remove it and pointed out that it is copywrited but it's really annoying to say the least.

He had downloaded it from Flickr (low res version), I am now thinking about adding watermarks to my pics but I do feel it spoils them for the genuine folk who like to browse.

Anyone had a similar experience?

Cheers

julio

palace15 22 Feb 2008 00:40

What is the link to the photo?

mr moto 22 Feb 2008 02:20

i am sad to say that once you post a pic on the net it almost becomes public property, just right click and they have it . now that,s not a problem for me if they just want to look at it on their own computer , but taking it without asking permission , and using it to make money is plain stealing . as for watermarking ? if you put it in the centre of the pic , it ruin,s the picture .
but if you put it in the edges , it can just be cropped out altogether . sadly i do not see any way around it .

DLbiten 22 Feb 2008 02:41

Add the watermark it looks like hell but what you going to do? I was a wedding photographer at one time and had more than one person make coppies of profs. Ever see a 8x10 coppie of a prof? :censored:

trophymick 22 Feb 2008 09:58

If you have the original photograph and the Exif Data, they will be something you can do about it?

Trophymick

Xander 22 Feb 2008 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by trophymick (Post 176069)
If you have the original photograph and the Exif Data, they will be something you can do about it?

Trophymick

I would water mark everything!!! I have had news papers print my photos and credited one of their staff. I have had a friend who had a someone submit his shot to a national prize (and won 5K). People are scum... so do what you have to to protect yourself. It is a shame for the people who just want to look, but you would not leave the keys in your bike right? cus most people jsut want to look there is always the 1 that will steal it!

if you need to know how to watermark in photoshop this is kinda an dummies guide

http://www.creativepro.com/img/story..._photoshop.pdf

Matt Cartney 22 Feb 2008 10:29

As the original photographer you automatically have copyright. I'd report them for breach of copyright, you might not get any money back but it will be worth it to stop them doing this. It's almost certain they are doing this as a matter of course, ripping off lots of photographers in the process. As someone who used to do this for a living it really annoys me as I know how hard it is to make any money doing it.

Matt

XT GIRL 22 Feb 2008 10:53

Read The Fine Print...
 
Flickr's t&c's actually leave you quite unprotected. You have the option of posting unwatermarked (small) images - and only allow subscribers to have access to your big pics though.

A SMALL deterent - but nevertheless helps, is to just put a small strapline on your images... this discourages most people - and the actual act of REMOVING it... is more of a deliberate infringement, so people don't do it.

People "steal" our pics all the time, especially since we cover big artists and music events a lot of the time. No one has been as brazen as to sell the images on! (that we know of)

HOWEVER - if it makes you feel any better - people are usually pretty clueless about what they're doing wrong... seriously -- its not malice, its ignorance.

So - we send them a warning and a request to cease the usage - and they usually comply...


More galling, is the arrogance of big artists like Prodigy & Scissor Sisters, who will have kittens if someone uses their work without paying royalties -- yet, they expect to be able to use our images, without paying us!

Dakota 22 Feb 2008 11:26

A watermark wouldn't make that much difference if people really want the image and they can use something like Photoshop. Since you can zoom in to 1px it's pretty easy for anybody to remove it if they have the time or patience to do it.

An alternative would be to use a digital watermark which is a non-visible watermark that can only be read by a computer program. The copyright is embedded digitally within the image and would prove your ownership of it. However, at the end of the day proving ownership of the image and getting unauthorised use curtailed or royalties for the use of, are two different things.

Unfortunately if you put good/interesting images on the internet, you have to expect (if not accept) that people 'borrow' them. Which under normal circumstances is flattering, but if they are trying to make money then that's a whole different kettle of fish.

Xander 22 Feb 2008 11:46

Ebay will help you get the guy to not use your photo and can ban him, but you will not see and £ from this

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota (Post 176084)
A watermark wouldn't make that much difference if people really want the image and they can use something like Photoshop. Since you can zoom in to 1px it's pretty easy for anybody to remove it if they have the time or patience to do it.

No it wont.. but it slows em down and they are more likely to just steal the next guys photo then yours..

The problem with digital copywrite is that you have to pay the holding company so you lose money there and the cost of retrieving the moneys from the infringing party is also extremely expensive, you will lose money even in the 5k case. like locks on windows it is a deterrent and nothing will stop a determined thief.

All other methods (puzzle cuts, table masks(clear gif), digital signatures) take a lot more time, (water marks can be batch automated) and are really no safer. The only way to completely stop theft is not to post, but then we can t show our work.

All in all we have the short end of the stick.

mattcbf600 22 Feb 2008 12:22

Happened to me a couple of times - but then I'm not a pro and don't make any money from my photos so it doesn't really bother me.

Having said that a few months ago there was a large fire in Hatfield and I happened to be on scene with my decent camera and took quite a few decent shots - shots I later discovered in building magazines!

I release all my photos under a creative commons licence on flickr - so people are free to take my photos and use them for personal use - their websites and such - but if they use them publicly they must credit me and the can not make any money from them.

When I contacted the publishing companies involved I pointed out that my photos had been taken from flickr, that the licence requirements were clearly attached to my photos (see - hatfield fire 004 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!) and that I was sending them an invoice at the current NUJ rate for use of the images. They paid up within the week.

I really wouldn't recommend putting up any shots that you don't want people to use online without protection - from my point of view I don't see the point in holding onto the rights unless you actually make your living from them - and I'd rather use a licence which tells people what they can do with my photos rather than what they can't.

Matt Cartney 22 Feb 2008 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattcbf600 (Post 176090)

I really wouldn't recommend putting up any shots that you don't want people to use online without protection - from my point of view I don't see the point in holding onto the rights unless you actually make your living from them - and I'd rather use a licence which tells people what they can do with my photos rather than what they can't.

This is a good attitude. Any pix I take these days and hope to make a few bob out of, don't go on Flickr. The pix that do I'm happy for people to use as long as they don't try to make money.

Matt

Flyingdoctor 22 Feb 2008 13:52

I don't put any tags on mine or name them with content specific names. Surely this would slow someone down when searching for an image. They'd see a lot before they got to mine. If I post them on a forum then I expect people can use them if they wish. I'd be a bit annoyed if a big company was using any of my images for gain though. I post images on my blogs too. Some of the providers of these free sites want you to give them intellectual rights to all of your content! That doesn't seem right. I ended up using Wordpress as their policy seemed a bit better from that point.

kentfallen 22 Feb 2008 16:46

If you don't want this to happen then don't post your stuff online it's that simple. Have a look at my website - it contains 6GB of photos and none are obscured by stupid watermarks. If anyone wants to use the data then go ahead. All I ask is that the website is mentioned as the source. So there, if this kind of thing upsets you, DONT POST IT!

enfieldtravels 23 Feb 2008 13:36

If you are putting the pics up on your own site or a blog it's easy to foil all but the most determined by just dropping a quick 'no right click' tag in for each individual pic or complete page - lots of different ways to do it here: no right click, disable copy and paste, secure web site
This will also work on a lot of blog sites and some photo galleries too.
Richard

Dakota 23 Feb 2008 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by enfieldtravels (Post 176286)
If you are putting the pics up on your own site or a blog it's easy to foil all but the most determined by just dropping a quick 'no right click' tag in for each individual pic or complete page - lots of different ways to do it here: no right click, disable copy and paste, secure web site
This will also work on a lot of blog sites and some photo galleries too.
Richard

But the people who use these photos probably have the developer bars on their browsers which allows you to access and view everything on a webpage including images, css, javascript etc even if the right click is disabled. Like thieves, it will only deter them, but if they want something, they can get it, be it an image or some script. Doing a Print Screen allows anybody to copy the contents of the screen and then load it into an image editor. IF they want it, they'll get it.

brittman 23 Feb 2008 21:11

stolen images
 
Hi i am a pro photographer,i just wanted to say that there is no way to protect images on the www yes you may have right click protect but its only good for people with windows pc.Any mac user can simply drag it to desk top then put it into genuine fractal software and make it poster size if they want.also as to copy right unless you send origional file and pay the fees it is not really copy righted.the only way to protect your images is not to post on the web.

beddhist 24 Feb 2008 02:41

Send the seller a bill. If he doesn't pay, sue him/her.

Julio 24 Feb 2008 13:01

Update on stolen Image
 
Hi All

After spending ages trying to contact Ebay, I eventually found an email address, the good news is that they have eventually removed the item. Bad news is that she has relisted straight away which has really hacked me off. So I'm now going through the same process yet again.

I also found that she had a load of other photos stolen from Flickr site and I managed to contact most of the people to let them know. I have again written to EBAY pointing this out and that her account should be deleted but they seem to be uninterested as she is a powerseller and no doubt generates money for them.

I wrote to seller asking her to remove the picture and basically all I got back was an insulting email saying to just sue me if you don't like what she does.

Bad news for her is that I managed to obtain her address and if Ebay still allow her to continue selling my picture, I will start legal proceedings via the small claims court which is a total pain in the arse and I have much better things to be doing with my time but what else can you do in this situation if they continue to take the P*SS.

For interest here is the link to the new item

English Bull Terrier 5"x5" Birthday card ! Not book !! on eBay, also Terrier, Dogs, Animals, Collectables (end time 01-Mar-08 09:04:18 GMT)

I agree that once an image is uploaded to the web that many people will copy it etc. I have no issues with them using my pics for personal use as long as they add a credit to it or point back to my website. It is a totally different scenario when someone is selling your image for their own personal gain.

I do now think that I may need to add a watermark to some of the more nickable pictures to stop this situation arising again.

Dakota 24 Feb 2008 13:26

I know somebody who is also a Power Seller that puts claims in with PayPal for things that haven't arrived to get their money back, even though they have received the goods. You're right, eBay don't seem that bothered that stuff like that goes on.

One option is for you to set up an account on eBay and buy the card from her then leave feedback saying she's using an unauthorised copy of your photograph and selling it. She can't delete the feedback you leave. Of course there's nothing stopping her trying to set up another account herself.

palace15 24 Feb 2008 14:16

Get the traders address, post it on here, then 'send the boys' in :thumbup1:

Personal visits do help people change their minds. :eek3:

Julio 24 Feb 2008 14:47

Funny you should say that!!
 
Funny how great minds think alike, When Ebay informed me that they were going to delete the add I got my girlfriend to buy one of the cards but not pay for it.

Guess whose name and address is shown on the invoice then!!!!! But if we have any of our boys living near Brownsover, Rugby :-)


And it gets better as ebay then wrote to my Girlfriend telling her that the item ahd been removed and she does not need to pay for it so the seller is none the wiser.

The worst thing is that on the bottom of her ad she says that if you can't find what you are looking for to let her know and she'll do her best to find an image or in other words look on the net to steal one.

Revenge is a dish best served cold I was always told!

J

RogerM 26 Feb 2008 03:02

Couple of points;

eBay has the deepest pockets, so sue them for hosting a copyright photo, dont bother with seller, as soon as eBay gets a letter of demand for damages they'll have her off for good, plus you'll receive some grovelling letter.

There is a report item hyperlnk at the bottom of her eBay ad, just go through the process of reporting her item each time it appears - I think they still have to pay fees so its a way for them to learn a lesson at their expense - eventually.

Copyright on Internet originally did not exist - it was for the free exchange of ideas and research - once it became commercialised then most governments introduced the concept of copyright. There are a lot of people out there who fervently disagree with copyright on the Internet and will do a lot of things to break copyright given half the chance.

Julio 1 Mar 2008 19:48

Good News
 
I have managed to get the seller to remove my pics, the Ebay reporting route is very slow and it is hit or miss if they will remove the ad. The copywright breach reporting process is a nightmare so prepare to be fobbed off.

It so easy for the seller to just relist the ad and you have to go through the same drawn out process each time. It seems that don't look at the number of complaints against the seller but treat each reported item separately.

The quickest way to get this sorted is keep writing to the seller and ask them to remove the item.

I did initially think about the legal route but I saw that Tiffany jewellery are at the Supreme court in the USA as they are suing EBay for allowing fake jewellery to be sold on Ebay. So this could end up being a test case. For us normal folk, this way would be far too costly.

Basically your knackered if the seller persists on relisting your item, unless you get there home address and Ebay will not disclose it. The best way around this is to purchase the item on a different account and then do not pay, they will send you an invoice which will have their name and address on.

You then have two options:
- Pay them a visit
- Commence legal proceedings with them direct which is much cheaper

The downside with all of the above is how much of your time is taken up sorting this crap out.

Cheers

Julio

Indoors 2 Mar 2008 19:46

Ebay
 
The link you provided to the card shows that she's still selling copyrighted images, just not stuff she nicked off flickr but images of Will Smith and Ricky Gervais.

It's not unlike guys selling t-shirts with the Harley logo or Led Zepellin or whatever. Good luck getting ebay to do anything, they're just interested in the listings fees and couldn't care less about where the goods came from; copyrighted images, copied DVDs, Malaysian knockoffs, or what fell off the back of a lorry. In some ways, ebay just reflects the opinions of its users who couldn't really care about the provenance of an item so long as it's cheap.

Best thing is probably to do what you are doing; set up fake accounts, keep buying her stuff and then not paying for it, leave negative feedback and her % rating will start to fall. Do it often enough and she'll have to change her user name (but I think the negative feedback goes with her), take her feedback private which is always suspicious, or start again as a new user with zero feedback.

Most people on ebay are 100% genuine. I've used it for a few years and only been jerked around twice; a book I sold never arrived (yeah, right) and some :censored: still owes me a fiver.

Good luck with persuing her by other means, but in the end, I tend to agree with what others have said about posting stuff on the internet in the first place, people treat it as being there for the taking and can't really see what the fuss is about.

Cheers,

Indoors.

palace15 2 Mar 2008 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indoors (Post 177637)
The link you provided to the card shows that she's still selling copyrighted images, just not stuff she nicked off flickr but images of Will Smith and Ricky Gervais.

It's not unlike guys selling t-shirts with the Harley logo or Led Zepellin or whatever. Good luck getting ebay to do anything, they're just interested in the listings fees and couldn't care less about where the goods came from; copyrighted images, copied DVDs, Malaysian knockoffs, or what fell off the back of a lorry. In some ways, ebay just reflects the opinions of its users who couldn't really care about the provenance of an item so long as it's cheap.

Best thing is probably to do what you are doing; set up fake accounts, keep buying her stuff and then not paying for it, leave negative feedback and her % rating will start to fall. Do it often enough and she'll have to change her user name (but I think the negative feedback goes with her), take her feedback private which is always suspicious, or start again as a new user with zero feedback.

Most people on ebay are 100% genuine. I've used it for a few years and only been jerked around twice; a book I sold never arrived (yeah, right) and some :censored: still owes me a fiver.

Good luck with persuing her by other means, but in the end, I tend to agree with what others have said about posting stuff on the internet in the first place, people treat it as being there for the taking and can't really see what the fuss is about.

Cheers,

Indoors.

'Indoors' how ironic that you posted on this thread, Is that not MY Avatar picture that you have stolen??????:rofl: :eek3:

Indoors 3 Mar 2008 21:21

Oops!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dave ede (Post 177663)
'Indoors' how ironic that you posted on this thread, Is that not MY Avatar picture that you have stolen??????:rofl: :eek3:


:oops2:


Dave,

All done in ignorance, I assure you. When I joined the site, I picked an avatar from the list available at the time which included yours (alongside images from the Simpsons, Star Wars, and Wallace and Gromit by the way). Perhaps you should send the boys round to Grant's place but I suppose he's never there.

Having been so adroitly put in my place, I am more than happy to remove it so as to avoid any possible confusion between my meandering novice mumblings and your learned veteran pronouncements.

I do have an avatar of my own, I just can't be bothered to work out how to make it small enough to fit the upload limit.

Cheers,

Andrew (my real name - honest).

P.S. Palace??

photographicsafaris 16 Mar 2008 17:24

Absolutely take her to pieces
 
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/tp/vero-rights-owner.html

You notice that she has stolen many images, and has sold many hundreds of images as her feedback says!

However I notice that there is nothing negative.

Go to town with this one.
Write a letter to Ebay Germany holding them responsible for pedling the stolen goods and present them with an invoice for 342x(whatever your fee is) Then send a similar letter addressed to her to her home address.

Then go through the small claims court process or a solicitor and institute formal proceedings to claim damages for the hundreds of your images that she has stolen and sold.

A note through to the IRS (or equivalent) would not go a miss either (though posting her doggie doo would be more fun).

I really believe that if you post it on the web dorp the image resolution right down so the Genuine fractals doesnt have a chance. If you are posting for someone to view and to potentially buy from you, then a dollop of watermark right across the image is in order (again low quality).

Good luck, and remember this is a first world country

cheers G

DAVSATO 16 Mar 2008 19:10

buy one of her products and put a negative feedback mentioning the 'F' word (fraud)as she is knowingly selling stolen goods. people really take notice of sellers feedback.
if she complains to ebay they cant say anything because they had prior knowledge and are letting her do it.
if she puts a revenge negative on you ebay must remove it as you can prove its true.


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