Moto Guzzi V7

[Threewheelbonnie]

Not the most obvious "adventure" bike I know (except for the 300 mile range, simple servicing and mod cons like single point FI and tubeless tyres), but if anyone else ends up riding one I've started to piece together a working manual from the bits of Nevada and Breva stuff that seems to be out there:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

I'll add to this as I go and any feedback on my one-page-per-job approach vs. Haynes/Clymer will be taken in the spirit intended

Andy

[Threewheelbonnie]

I can’t remember where I spotted the discussion on V7’s and LED indicators. However my preparation for sidecardom has involved a bit of experimentation that may also be of use to anyone wanting to use LED indicators, trailer electrics, doing fault finding etc. Please note the following, to my knowledge, only applies to single injector bikes, the two-injector type has a more conventional relay under the tank according to the parts lists I have.
My 2014 has the indicators wired on four pins of the clocks pod. I have not been far enough in to this to define exactly what it is but:

1. If you disconnect any lamp it flashes double speed ; failed lamp detection by resistance.
2. If you bypass the rear lamp to go to two lamps on a sidecar, leaving the front (now middle) lamp in place all is well (electrically at least).
3. If you remove the front-now-middle lamp and power the sidecar pair off the rear it detects the front as a failure and flashes double speed.
4. If you replace the front-now-middle with a 12 Ohm resistor and run the sidecar off the rear “driver” all is well.
5. If you pull the 5A fuse centralmost in the fuse block, nothing except the dashboard flashes and that at double speed.

There is certainly more to the inside of the instrument pod than a single relay. It acts like twin relays, so is undoubtedly electronic. This gives me concerns about how much power it can drive. Therefore:

a) If you use an LED in this circuit you will need resistors, electrically negating a lot of the advantages of an LED. I do not know how small you could go but would guess at 6 Ohms, the equivalent of a 5W lamp would be safer.
b) You cannot join these circuits, four indicators are driven off four circuits each with failure detection.
c) For sidecar use I will be using one lamp and one LED on the chair to avoid overloading the circuit while staying within the resistance boundaries for failure detection.

I’ve added the break-in loom I’ve made to my service idiot sheets here;
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

The good news is that many of the electrical connectors such as the 6-pin 2.6mm are industry standard. The nice red one I bought is Suzuki spec.

The indicator set-up looks to be a hybrid between conventional and CAN. All four indicators are wired back to the clock pod where the driver lives, there is no attempt to run the rears off the engine ECU and save the resulting four feet of cable. The switch gear and power also enters the clock pod, so in the event of failure if would be possible to retrofit the earlier relay, albeit with a fair bit of wiring. Given the clock pod has a CAN link to the engine ECU, I smell change pending where a later model will go to full CAN.


Andy

[Threewheelbonnie]

Air filter one pager here:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

Note: The free manual on various web pages is for the single injector models that have the filter under the tank between the cylinder pots. The single injector version is far more traveller friendly,

Andy

[Walkabout]

JWD for the attention to detail and the overall effort, even though I don't understand too much - the latter is my lack of knowledge which is why I say, again, jolly well done!

I gather that you are going to add a chair to this model of bike so does it, the bike, have LED indicators as standard or are you adding them via your modifications for the sidecar?

Single/dual point FI: what is the difference so far as you are concerned? (I ask because you make repeated reference to this aspect).
e.g. which models of bikes have which type of FI?

Do you mean that there are two different types of air filter used for the V7 engine and they are both fitted in the same location, namely between the cylinders? (which is an eminently suitable location for the air filter given the overall layout of the V twin).

Sorry for all the questions; but one more - how is the bike for riding?

[Threewheelbonnie]

Hello Dave,


I'm loving the V7. Assuming it makes it to May without doing anything anti-social I think it'll be my favourite bike ever except for MZ's.


I'm looking at adding a chair and would usually go with LED lights to reduce the strain of the extra load on the loom. Two of every light instead of one. I know other people have wanted LED's for style reasons and because they are close to indestructible.


Moto Guzzi seem to have a fairly imaginative approach to model planning. Having tried to research the V7's I keep hitting info labelled "V7" that might be better filed as "Black V7 made on a Tuesday using bits from next years plan"! All part of the fun. Excluding the original 60's V7, the modern ones started in 2008 but from 2012 have had a series of changes leading up to the 2014/15 V7-II (which is actually the third model with the name). Describing the features is looking easier than using model names to let people know if what I'm saying might apply to them. I hate the idea of anyone trying to open the box under the seat only to find an ECU instead of the air filter when I've already had the opposite search.


A 2009 would be dual point injection with electrics under the tank and air filter between the pots (not a nice spot BTW as they put the airbox too close to the frame, so you need a well trained 6-year old to put the screws back).
My 2013/14-ish model is single point injection, air filter under the seat, electrics in the headlight.
There are later V7-I's with a wet alternator they probably share with the V7-II which has a canted forwards engine, better gearbox and other changes.


To me single point injection is proven to give about 5 MPG more and means no throttle bodies to balance. Think about how Ted Simons Jupiter wasn't a Bonneville if you like.


Are we all bored of V7's yet?


Andy

[Walkabout]

Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie

Not the most obvious "adventure" bike I know (except for the 300 mile range, simple servicing and mod cons like single point FI and tubeless tyres)

Hi Andy,
Yes, these features are interesting; also the engine remains air cooled as far as I know (rightly so with the pots hanging out into the fresh air) so it ought to be of interest to all those who hanker after such by-gones.
I guess the lack of oil/water cooling is a significant reason for the lack of horsepower developed by what must be a very un-tuned 750cc engine.

To boot, Guzzis have shaft drive; I presume that the drive components are very under stressed via the modest torque generated.

Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie

I'm loving the V7. Assuming it makes it to May without doing anything anti-social I think it'll be my favourite bike ever except for MZ's.

Excluding the original 60's V7, the modern ones started in 2008 but from 2012 have had a series of changes leading up to the 2014/15 V7-II (which is actually the third model with the name). Describing the features is looking easier than using model names to let people know if what I'm saying might apply to them. I hate the idea of anyone trying to open the box under the seat only to find an ECU instead of the air filter when I've already had the opposite search.

A 2009 would be dual point injection with electrics under the tank and air filter between the pots (not a nice spot BTW as they put the airbox too close to the frame, so you need a well trained 6-year old to put the screws back).
My 2013/14-ish model is single point injection, air filter under the seat, electrics in the headlight.
There are later V7-I's with a wet alternator they probably share with the V7-II which has a canted forwards engine, better gearbox and other changes.

To me single point injection is proven to give about 5 MPG more and means no throttle bodies to balance. Think about how Ted Simons Jupiter wasn't a Bonneville if you like.

What could possibly go wrong in just 3 months?

I know the square root of zero about fuel injection systems, so by all means explain the differences and relative merits for as long as you like - no boredom on my part.

I guess that much the same engine, or one very like this 750cc, has been used in the other Guzzi products such as the earlier Breva and the Nevada.

There is an article in the freebie paper named Motorcycle Monthly for February 2015: the one that can be found online or picked up in print version at various distribution locations.
The article is a bit light weight on the riding experience (mustn't expect too much of yet another "free lunch" which has a whole page of related advertising right alongside the article) but it does identify a number of detail changes in the 2015 range; sure, they also refer to the bike as a V7 11.

[Walkabout]

Over the last couple of years there has been next to no input about the V7 within the HUBB, but after a modicum of research in here, I found this thread:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ke-along-64626

I thought it might be worth a look for anyone else who delves into your thread.

[Threewheelbonnie]

The OEM Metzler Laser things are pretty poor, so wheels off to fit Pirellis:

Front wheel

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

Silencer

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

Rear wheel off

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

and on again

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

Andy

[Jake]

Andy having owned breathed and lived for Moto guzzis for many years of my biking life - your on the wrong tack, you will never solve the build sequence or the parameters of design and getting info to specific models - its just fluid and changable on the day so to speak.

If on Monday Morning Luigi has had a skinful of wine last night and was rejected by his missus you get a bit of a lash up from whatever parts bins lying around, that is until Mario comes along and bends his ear a bit and together they try to put Luigi's build back on track by then Deangelo has popped along he happens to have some 1200 sport indicators in his hand - so they go on while Luigi tells Deanglo about his troubles with his wife, Deanglo breaks open a cask of vino liqorisio and they drown there sorrows with that while discussing the women, the world etc but all the time bolting various bits in - Oh there are no number plate hangerss left in the box - - It'sa no problemo says Deangalo swiftly liberating one from the stelvio parts bin -Thisa will go (well by quickly redrilling some holes in the mudguard) so onto the bike it goes this goes on until its finished - it then passes to the dark cupboard where the souls are kept, one is swiftly snatched out the cupboard and ensconsed into the bikes tank - It's a all a right now - onto Quality assurance guy - he does not recognise the bike model but its got a some wheels and soma handleybars and it goes Vrooom Vroom so therefore it'sa OK, maybe must be new model !! so he stamps it V7 1111 and thus you have the new progression of the Guzzi.

Wonderful different but how on earth can you get info - you can't cos what comes out the office and off the drawing board never made it to the end of the prodution line.

Tchus jake.

[Walkabout]

It may have been much the same on the Triumph production line during the sit-ins, lock-ins and the like.
Substitute for wine but not done with the same flair.

[Threewheelbonnie]

Part of my back ground is as a production and quality engineer so I can imagine the Monday morning stuff

Typically the workers are driven by a desire to do well but see product going out of the door as the goal. It is up to management to 1. Make sure Luigi has the right bits, 2. Clear out the "spares" under his bench and 3. Make him see himself as part of a team, not someone who'll chuck weird bikes over the wall into sales and let the parts team work it out later. Piaggio have employed names I've heard of to make this happen, but it is early days by the look of it.

The 2014 single point injection, dry alternator, black V7 is loving the new tyres

Andy

[Jake]

Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie

Part of my back ground is as a production and quality engineer so I can imagine the Monday morning stuff

Typically the workers are driven by a desire to do well but see product going out of the door as the goal. It is up to management to 1. Make sure Luigi has the right bits, 2. Clear out the "spares" under his bench and 3. Make him see himself as part of a team, not someone who'll chuck weird bikes over the wall into sales and let the parts team work it out later. Piaggio have employed names I've heard of to make this happen, but it is early days by the look of it.

The 2014 single point injection, dry alternator, black V7 is loving the new tyres

Andy

Andy that is almost a complete job application - and even more so would bring a prospective offer of employment from Moto Guzzi as a senior management executive. You could be left in charge - while they went down the pizzaria.

Agree that Guzzi have at last got their act together - the quality of the bikes coming out seems far better than previous. I went to look at a V7 & v7 (2) closely out of interest. They really are nice - but so small for a tall chap like me and the bigger bikes are too heavy. Be nice if the do a proper TT version of the V& or a mini lightweight v7 Stelvio.

Jake.

[Threewheelbonnie]

Like every other manufacturer in the modern world of Elven Safety, Moto Guzzi are not at home to Mr. Threadlock

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

The valve check however is a ten minute job with basic tools. Like on a BMW airhead or Ural, only with less kneeling down and better quality metal. I do not miss Triumph valve shims

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

Andy

[Threewheelbonnie]

A bit of looks over function design corrected:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

Andy

[greenmanalishi]

Andy, for various reasons I am looking for another bike. I have narrowed my choices down to 3 so far but have no experience with any of them as yet. The 3 are Moto Guzzi v7 11 Stone, Triumph T100, Kawasaki W800. I know you have had at least 2 of these 3 and maybe all of them. How do they compare for ease of maintenance, durability and cost of servicing?

Costwise and size wise they seem to be pretty much of a muchness as my comparison chart shows but figures do not always give you the real story?


Triumph T100 Kawasaki 800 Moto Guzzi V711 Transalp 650 V5






Price 7799 6899 7134 n/a already own one
weight 230 217 189 220
seat height 775mm 30.5in 790mm 30.75in 790mm 31.75 in 843mm 33.25in
MPG 48 52 60 46
top end 110 110 115 112

Not sure how this chart will view but hope it makes sense. I need a low seat height for the pillion!