CCM GP 450 Adventure

[vienna_wolfe]

Hi,

I had the opportunity to ride the brandnew CCM GP 450 Adventure just before they start the production and I was very impressed about the conecpt of this lightweight bike, which really seems to be ready for big journeys. The handling offroad is great, as there are build in good suspensions (front from Marzocchi) and rear shocks (from Tractive) and even on road the bike makes a good job for relaxed traveling.



On my site you'll also find a detailed review whith a lot of pictures (in german language): >> CCM GP 450 Adventure <<

So long,

da Wolf

[Tim Cullis]

Good video, thanks. I had a test ride earlier this year but less chance to ride off tarmac.

What I've not yet seen is how the bike handles with full luggage which is how I would be travelling most of the time. As I mostly ride solo I favour twin aluminium panniers (for security), plus roll bag and tank bag.

There will be opportunities to test ride the bike at HUBB UK which is coming up next week.

[Kradmelder]

At £8000 it would come in more expensive than a KTM 1190 here. Insane. The range is also very limited and would be what? 230 km?

Far cheaper to get the KTM 690 Oryx. 148 kg bike. 66 bhp. 27 litre tank. Cheaper same weight more power longer range.

[chris]

Originally Posted by Kradmelder

At £8000 it would come in more expensive than a KTM 1190 here. Insane. The range is also very limited and would be what? 230 km?

Far cheaper to get the KTM 690 Oryx. 148 kg bike. 66 bhp. 27 litre tank. Cheaper same weight more power longer range.

I thought the same: £8k for a dirtbike! :confused1: What's wrong with a good used DRZ400s for about £2500? The DRZ has proven reliability and available bling (new and used). CCM has the reputation of building poor bikes (how often have they gone bust?) and the 450 bmw engine they're using failed as a race engine with David Knight. Prior and since his BMW interlude he has won everything on KTM (and privately with Kawasaki).

CCM probably got the engines cheap, as a job lot, when the BMW G450 was discontinued.

My mate thought it was shocking when he tested one earlier this year. I'll give it a test ride at HU Donington next week. Even if I thought it was good, I wouldn't pay such a huge amount of money for it.

[Walkabout]

Originally Posted by vienna_wolfe

Hi,

I had the opportunity to ride the brandnew CCM GP 450 Adventure just before they start the production and I was very impressed about the conecpt of this lightweight bike, which really seems to be ready for big journeys. The handling offroad is great, as there are build in good suspensions (front from Marzocchi) and rear shocks (from Tractive) and even on road the bike makes a good job for relaxed traveling.



On my site you'll also find a detailed review whith a lot of pictures (in german language): >> CCM GP 450 Adventure <<

So long,

da Wolf

Some people have managed to put a few 1000 miles on the pre-production machine.
You can see their views here:-
http://www.adventurebikerider.com/fo...t=10&start=130

[mollydog]

Originally Posted by Tim Cullis

Good video, thanks. I had a test ride earlier this year but less chance to ride off tarmac.

What I've not yet seen is how the bike handles with full luggage which is how I would be travelling most of the time. As I mostly ride solo I favour twin aluminium panniers (for security), plus roll bag and tank bag.

There will be opportunities to test ride the bike at HUBB UK which is coming up next week.

Important point, IMO.
I feel that full luggage will likely have a MAJOR affect on such a LIGHT WEIGHT bike. I'm betting it totally changes it's character off road ... as weight will do with just about every bike made. Light bikes are more affected than heavy ones, but all change personality with luggage.

Originally Posted by chris

CCM probably got the engines cheap, as a job lot, when the BMW G450 was discontinued.

That could well be true. Kymco made the BMW motor in Taiwan. Probably had a couple thousand left overs sitting in a warehouse, so Win Win.

I agree how bad the BMW 450 race bike sucked ... but I don't blame the motor so much. I think the motor is basically OK ... the wacky chassis and geometry was at fault, IMO.

Time will tell how that motor holds up doing long miles. Kymco make fantastic products. Try to break one of their scooters. You can't do it. If the 450 is even half as tough ... it will be OK. But £8K? Over the top!

[Steve Pickford]

Originally Posted by mollydog

... it will be OK. But £8K? Over the top!

Not sure £8k is over the top, try pricing up an equivalent KTM/Yamaha 450cc enduro bike with no fairing, less fuel capacity and no luggage capability apart from slinging a Giant Loop over the rear and and then factor in the cost of those mods to bring it up to a similar spec to the CCM.

I know from experience what it costs to do the same to a KTM 690 Enduro and you couldn't do it for under £8k unless you fabricate a lot of the components yourself and even then, factor in some sort of sensible hourly rate for your labour and It still can't be done. I remember prepping a DRZ for a 4 month South America trip and spending approximately 150 hours on the bike which included all of the running about getting parts powder coated and buying tools, parts and materials. Extending the subframe and fabricating pannier frames for a CRF230F recently totalled 15+ hours.

I'm not in the market for such a bike but I want CCM to succeed with this bike as more choice can only be a good thing.

There appears to be a few folk on the 'net who are are against this bike despite the majority never having ridden one. :confused1:

[mollydog]

No question prep costs can escalate upward quickly. But if you start off with a relatively low cost bike, then even with prep, it may not be too expensive.

Or, find a used bike where the prep has been done for you? In any case, I'd bet the CCM also needs some prep? like any bike you buy, always needs some prepping somewhere. Dunno?

£8K UKP ia about $12,000 usd. Not sure you really need a Dakar style Dash and shield or fairings at all. And lots of riders now using Giant Loop. I DO like the CCM soft bags. Nice set up, but I could do similar for much less.

I bought an Acerbis 4.5 US Gal. tank for my WR250F for about $180 USD. Not bad. IMS and Clarke also make big tanks for most popular bikes. No need for a $800 Safari or $2000 Rally Raid Dakar fairing.

A few alternative bikes as starting platforms available for sale today:
Beta 450 RS Dirt / Dual Sport (Low Miles, Nice!)
This Beta is interesting, very good reviews.

Lots of WR450's and DRZ's around here too, pretty inexpensive:
2006 WR450 green sticker
2006 WR450 green sticker
2007 WR 450 Excellent Shape
2004 DRZ400e, Street Legal ###########################################
2006 Suzuki DRZ400S w/ SM Wheels
2009 Suzuki DRZ400S
2006 Suziki DRZ400S

[TBR-China]

The UK based “Adventure Bike TV” show, first episode reviews the CCM GP450....

http://www.adventurebiketv.com

[Jake]

Chris, your really hitting at this bike again - really it is not needed, to be so negative about a fledgling project such as CCM, more so when your views may be quite influential within the HUBB network by way of your experience, background and travel history.
As you will know and I am sure there will be many people who look up to the like of yourself for advice and guidance from your wide experience which is fair enough, however if you have your facts wrong ( different to your personal views) that then would be very unfair to the likes of CCM looking at what they are trying to achieve and where they are at the moment.
You have not ridden the bike but you have a mate that did not like it - well there are many that have ridden it and thought it excellent - two friends of mine who like yourself have done big trips - massive cross continent trips - on various bikes both say they would consider the bike very high on the list of bikes.
I have not yet ridden the bike for various reasons but still cannot see why your so negative I can only be positive about it in its concept.
The CCM is new and offers something that does not exist to this market - it also appears of high build quality - yes it need proven but so does everything new to the market. CCM have it appears learnt from the past and hopefully (given the chance) moved on into a new chapter with this bike.
Bye the way (as for drz's something many people often refer to) one of the riders i mention above also ownes a drz and does not rate it that highly, constantly goes on about - various aspects of the poor build quality, the know failings and unreliable side of the DRZ series history. Thats not to mention the amount of money spent to bring his particular bike up to a reasonable level - still not comparable to the CCM.
To add to that I did some work on the bike with him recently - and have to say i was shocked at the poor quality of simple things like the electrics and some of the chassis welding - I was surprised as this was on a very low mileage bike.
I currently ride a Cagiva elefant at the moment another bike you would not rate - based on what ? an italian bias a ducati bias -who knows - but the quality of the chassis and general engineering are simply years ahead of its time and even the wiring (now almost 20 years old and with a tiny amount of modifcation) on the Elefant are way ahead of the much more modern drz. (I agree the Elefant is a little more complex to work on the engine) but still easy enough. I think we will never agree on our views over this CCM or the Elefant or the BMW for that matter but hey ho. Why however go on about the CCM - when you have nothing good to say about the machine nor any experience of it.

[Kradmelder]

Jake, the point remains, you can take a bike like the KTM 690, put enough Rally raid stuff on it, up to or below the cost of the CCM and end up with far more bike for your money: same weight class, more power, more range, luggage potential. As far as handling, you would have to ride both. But hard to beat the KTM suspension set up.

The point isn't the CCM is a bad bike, but value for money. I just figure if I spent £8000 I would have a far better custom bike. To try and enter a market at a price range exceeding a fully kitted out rally bike with a known reputation doesn't seem like good marketing. After £8000 you are still left with a bike you must modify to carry fuel and luggage. And how will the 450 motor cope with that?

[Jake]

Kradmelder,I take that point and its constructive - then your left down to choice, my point was that Chris ( who I know and like so its nothing personal by the way just a differing point of view and approach to this bike) does not add particularly constructive criticism just criticism mainly of CCM full stop.
Also here in the UK to add the rally raid gear to a ktm is a bit more expensive than the CCM. I have owned and really rate the KTM series bikes having travelled a reasonable bit on one. However I was not taken at all with the 690 its far to biased as an out an out dirt bike whereas the CCM is a bit more middle of the road than that.
Look at anyone who has ridden one on the dirt - absolute amateurs have found the bike is easy to ride and give a very reassuring feel and degree of competence - the 690 is a bit more of a handful, maybe thats where the CCm is better suited.
The lad who I quoted as having a drz also has a KTM 950 's' and a ktm 640 adventure both of which he has done some major mileage on - he is also a very very competent rider in any environment - he has ridden the CCM on and off road NOT on a guided tour by the factory team. He rates the CCM very highly and at its worst it is as capable as the 640 - something I would never think I would hear him say and believe me that would be very hard earned praise. The CCm wil have no doubt as you point out some limitations and failings you cant cover everything to everyone.going custom may be the best way to achieve certain requirements however many people simply are not willing or are not able to do that. Also the target market here in UK and Europe i would think are maybe quite different to the market and requirements down in your end of the world.

[Jake]

Bye the way I think this - road /off road real world test by minkyhead speaks up a bit for the CCM

CCM 450 Adventure - Page 74 - ADVrider

Jake.

[chris]

Originally Posted by Jake

Chris, your really hitting at this bike again - really it is not needed, to be so negative about a fledgling project such as CCM, more so when your views may be quite influential within the HUBB network by way of your experience, background and travel history.
As you will know and I am sure there will be many people who look up to the like of yourself for advice and guidance from your wide experience which is fair enough, however if you have your facts wrong ( different to your personal views) that then would be very unfair to the likes of CCM looking at what they are trying to achieve and where they are at the moment.

Everybody is allowed their opinion. Yours counts for as much as mine = very little. I think you're over-egging it a bit implying I'm an opinion leader. Nobody gives a toss about what I think. The evidence is plain to see. I think oil head GSs are bag of sh!te and everybody rides one .

Which facts do I have wrong with regard to CCM?

Originally Posted by Jake

You have not ridden the bike but you have a mate that did not like it - well there are many that have ridden it and thought it excellent - two friends of mine who like yourself have done big trips - massive cross continent trips - on various bikes both say they would consider the bike very high on the list of bikes.
I have not yet ridden the bike for various reasons but still cannot see why your so negative I can only be positive about it in its concept.
The CCM is new and offers something that does not exist to this market - it also appears of high build quality - yes it need proven but so does everything new to the market. CCM have it appears learnt from the past and hopefully (given the chance) moved on into a new chapter with this bike.

Good luck to CCM. They definitely need to learn from their history of mistakes. I really can't see this market niche that will make them much money. Everybody else is building bigger/heavier/faster road oriented faux-adventure bikes and seem to be making big money. Maybe people want to pay £8k for a dirtbike. Just because I won't, makes no difference to anyone.

Dazzer, who rode the bike at Haggs Bank at the WIMA event (let's not discuss why he's at a women only bike event... ) didn't like it. His opinion also counts for the same as yours or mine.

You haven't ridden the bike, yet wear rose tinted glasses. Great. I haven't either, and my glasses are less rose tinted. I don't see it as a big deal either way.

I said I was going to test ride it at the weekend at Donington. You need to show your driver's licence. I've got to post my licence to the Derbyshire Constabulary this week to have speeding points added so won't be testing it

Originally Posted by Jake

Bye the way (as for drz's something many people often refer to) one of the riders i mention above also ownes a drz and does not rate it that highly, constantly goes on about - various aspects of the poor build quality, the know failings and unreliable side of the DRZ series history. Thats not to mention the amount of money spent to bring his particular bike up to a reasonable level - still not comparable to the CCM.
To add to that I did some work on the bike with him recently - and have to say i was shocked at the poor quality of simple things like the electrics and some of the chassis welding - I was surprised as this was on a very low mileage bike.

I bought my DRZ for £2000 including a big tank. The bike didn't need any sorting and is great for what it is and has had some great trips to Morocco and other European destinations. I haven't had any issues worth mentioning with the bike. A chap I rode with in Siberia last summer, rode a stock XR400 Honda (just a bigger tank) from the UK to Magadan and back(!) with no issues. It cost him £800. (not £8000!)

Originally Posted by Jake

I currently ride a Cagiva elefant at the moment another bike you would not rate - based on what ? an italian bias a ducati bias -who knows - but the quality of the chassis and general engineering are simply years ahead of its time and even the wiring (now almost 20 years old and with a tiny amount of modifcation) on the Elefant are way ahead of the much more modern drz. (I agree the Elefant is a little more complex to work on the engine) but still easy enough. I think we will never agree on our views over this CCM or the Elefant or the BMW for that matter but hey ho. Why however go on about the CCM - when you have nothing good to say about the machine nor any experience of it.

Now you're in the land of fantasy Jake, claiming to know what I think of Cagiva Elefants I quite like them and have a soft spot for Italian vehicles.

Oh yeh, I now own an Aprillia. Actually it's a BMW X Challenge, but it's essentially an Italian Aprillia. The only thing German is the badge and the mapping of the EFI unit.

If you're at Donington, let's drink a .

[Jake]

Chris i am not at Donnington - so no drink sorry.

I did not say your facts were wrong but they are mainly historic and companies change and can evolve, and make good I don't think you are prepared to let that past rest and give them a chance - a new day dawning and all that.

Rose tinted specs - maybe but more like very bright psychedelic actually - but just want to see a British company making a bike do well more the point, your right about opinions - but your pretty well up on the list of people who people will listen to by virtue of your scribe work and experiences regarding travel - I am not.
I respect Dazzers opinion and he is a hell of a rider - it surprises me he does not rate the bike - but maybe its aimed more at novices like myself.

Elefants - you let me know once what a bad choice that would be - good luck with it - giving a bit of a feel that they were not a bike to head for - so again you really surprise me with the nice comment there - that really deserves a .

Then you tell me you have got an Italian bike - ye gads be careful - it could be a long slow slide down a slippy and ever steeper slope.

I know many cheap bikes go many places reliably - bike are not about the money to me if you can afford them and like them then that's the equation I apply.

I perfectly understand that a cheap bike is and can be a good thing in a far off place - that makes sense in many ways - but all bikes start off new and reasonably expensive at some point - like many things hand built and or quality can cost more. (note and / or) as the two do not always go together.


Finally you should not have been going so fast -bad lad and if you were your observation should have seen the one that caught you before he/she/machine whatever had a chance to do so - then you would have been riding within your observational limits. TUT TUT. Keep smiling Jake.