Defender production to cease in 2015

[ilesmark]

BBC News - Emission rules to end Land Rover Defender production

Apols if this isn't in the right part of the site. Am posting as I am slightly mystified by the given reason - 'emissions'. Don't Defenders have that same Duratorq engine as Ford Transits and Rangers? Seems odd that they would have to stop in 2015 as well or, more to the point, that JLR can't fit whatever engine it takes to get through the regs after 2015.

Or is this just a face-saving excuse???

[tacr2man]

I think its just a simplification of all the compliance problems stacking up for a very old design , that would be too complicated for the understanding of the general public , so you need to keep the message easy to understand .
The bigger concern is what are they going to replace it with , in a way same as nothing has replaced Concord ! Its going to be a hard act to follow . In one way its a relief as it was slowly being damaged by the way it was developing (going backwards rather than forward when looking at its original appeal and utility) JMHO

[ilesmark]

Follow-up article from the BBC - BBC News - Owners lament loss of Land Rover Defender

[Gipper]

Agree with you there tacr2man......there's nothing more that can be done with the old mine Donkey, so its out to pasture with a plausible excuse for the old girl.
While its the end of an era, hopefully there's enough Series/Defenders around to keep parts production going for a long time to come.

Personally I am looking forward to what they come up with, (with some trepidation of course) I wont be selling my D90 - ever, but I am interested in replacing the Discovery in a few years - which to be honest doesn't get used off road much these days (I do that on Motorbikes) but it has done Stirling service over the last 7 years I've had it - always getting us through to our destination during brutal Winter driving conditions, where the side of the highway is often littered with abandoned cars and the Discovery has on more than one occasion, pulled Toyotas out of the ditches

[RogerM]

........or production heading to India where Tata is headquartered?

[ilesmark]

I've often thought that would be an obvious idea, given the level of manual work involved in the assembly of Defenders.

All depends on whether India adopts the same vehicle construction / crash safety regs as the EU, I suppose - think their emissions ones are the same as the EU these days?

[moggy 1968]

I heard it was due to the front pedestrian impact issues.

It's sad, end of an era, but been on the cards for a while. Landrover have increasingly moved away from their commercial roots and into upmarket but unrelible and poorly made SUVs.

What they should be doing is producing something to compete in the 1 ton pickup market like the Hilux, maybe, and uniquely for the sector, combining it with a van body option, but I don't see that happening. They weren't interested in pursuing the new MOD contract and have shown no interest in producing a commercial vehicle as a worthy successor to the defender.

[ilesmark]

[QUOTE=moggy 1968;440054]I heard it was due to the front pedestrian impact issues. QUOTE]

Why can't people just LOOK before they cross the road?! Easier for everyone;-)

Sometimes I wonder about the sense in concentrating on just 1 end of a market. Toyota seem to manage fine just making utility AND high-end 4x4s and they probably make more money as a result....it's not as if 1 steals sales from the other.

[moggy 1968]

[QUOTE=ilesmark;440078]

Originally Posted by moggy 1968

I heard it was due to the front pedestrian impact issues. QUOTE]

Why can't people just LOOK before they cross the road?! Easier for everyone;-)

Sometimes I wonder about the sense in concentrating on just 1 end of a market. Toyota seem to manage fine just making utility AND high-end 4x4s and they probably make more money as a result....it's not as if 1 steals sales from the other.

I think the other thing with Toyota is, what appears to be the same vehicle actually has very different specifications for different parts of the world.

[Gipper]

In regards to building old Defenders in India/Asia. I don't think this will happen, not when the Asian car makers have cornered the market with Daihatsu, Hino, Isuzu, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Toyota and Tata - they all have a range of forward control utility pickup vehicles to sell, why put all that money into moving the tooling or setting up production for an old tech vehicle that is well overpriced and has a limited size load bed - even if the price was halved it would still be too expensive and too much of a 'niche' vehicle.

Originally Posted by moggy 1968

I think the other thing with Toyota is, what appears to be the same vehicle actually has very different specifications for different parts of the world.

Yep, totally, you look at the North American POS we get here - the Toyota Tacoma (Hilux equivalent)- thirsty V6 petrol engine that struggles to get 24 mpg, the doublecab has a 140 inch wheelbase () and the cabin is still cramped - Utter piece of junk - but North Americans love their pick up trucks.

The South American Hilux's aren't much different to EuroSpec, though probably cheaper trims and I suspect less emissions guff on them. Ford sells the new Ranger in South America with the diesel engine, but in North America we get the old crappy Ranger with a 4.0 V6 gas guzzler petrol engine.

IF (and that's a BIG if) Land Rover are able to produce a decent mid size versatile pickup, with extended cab and roomy crew cab options, that DOESNT have a small Transit engine in it (id like to see something similar to the excellent Toyota D4D 3.0 litre engine) AND they can sell them in North America and a REASONABLE price, they MIGHT be onto a winner. Also, IF they are able to offer ROW spec vehicles with beefed up (live beam) axle suspension with simple trim levels then they MIGHT take a few sales from Toyota.

Unfortunately there are lots of variables in the above and what I think we will end up with is a plastic POS with independent air suspension and more electronics than you can shake a stick at. They might sell a few - and if its not too bad I might buy one - but no one in South America, Africa and most of Asia will touch one and I sure wont be overlanding anywhere remote in one.

[Walkabout]

Originally Posted by Gipper

what I think we will end up with is a plastic POS with independent air suspension and more electronics than you can shake a stick at.

And it will look like the Discovery, or the Freelander 2, or even the Range Rover or ....... all the other AWDs that have come out of wind tunnel testing and had a "car bodywork designer" sort them out.

But, something like 90% of current LR production in the UK is exported and the production lines are ever so busy. (good business for Tata as the parent company).

[moggy 1968]

only because of the current fashion for 4x4s and SUVs. Once that ends, as it surely will, because all fashions do, with no commercial vehicle to fall back on Landrover will cease as well.

[diesel jim]

This story came up on various LR forums that I'm on, also various G wagon forums that I'm also on.

Concensus was; if the Germans can keep the "G" looking like the "G" but with airbags, and other safety stuff, why the hell can't LR pull their stubby thumbs out of their ar$es and do the same.

The engine, as mentioned above, is the transit duratorque, so that's clean enough emissions wise. OK so the defender is hand built... as is the G. costs of the G are a lot higher than a defender, but you get what you pay for... decent paint job, a gearbox not made of cheese, an autobox option, and doors that don't leak! heck I'd pay twice the price for a defender if I got that lot.

Needless to say, I'm about to sell my 90 laning toy to fund another project..... project-G.

[Walkabout]

Originally Posted by diesel jim

Concensus was; if the Germans can keep the "G" looking like the "G" but with airbags, and other safety stuff, why the hell can't LR pull their stubby thumbs out of their ar$es and do the same.

Probably because no one in the UK actually gives a stuff, ultimately - the few folk who talk about these things do, of course, but the great British "public" sold LR years ago into overseas ownership. Why should Tata care?

We are about to construct a new Nuclear power station here based on French design/technology and Chinese finance because we gave up on nuclear energy years ago, in the same way as we did on many other kinds of manufacturing, such as vehicles*.
When the powers-that-be decided recently, in principle, that "Nuclear is now OK in the UK", they found that everyone based in the UK who was ever involved in that industry is now retired, or dead.

* I suppose I have to qualify that by remembering that we can still do specialist design of cars (such as F1 vehicles) and we can manufacture them in the sense of assembling them for overseas based companies - in short, it all comes down to globalisation.

[Walkabout]

Originally Posted by moggy 1968

Landrover will cease as well.

As I say, why should Tata care?
Ultimately, they own the badge/brand and they can make just about anything, put the LR badge on it and sell it somewhere in the world.