 2Likes
 |
|
19 Apr 2013
|
|
Registered Users
HUBB regular
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 68
|
|
|
I look at this question from potentially another point of view, which is how much MORE reliable is a vehicle for which you drop 2-4x as much money?
If you test drive the car, identify issues, know what it costs to fix, replace, deal with, then you are in a good spot. If you can identify the high likely fail points and know the cost to mitigate them, then you'll know if it truly a good deal.
I did this last year with two Subaru FOresters. We purchased them, fixed them up (had to rebuild an entire engine) and shipped them to the UK and then drove to Cape Town.
Great news - they made it! Total cost for the vehicles and vehicle work was about $4,000 USD. So, you can definitely do it and can definitely save a lot of money by doing it.
One of the big things we saw is that a lot of people would "overbuy" as in getting more vehicle and more performance parts than they actually would use and of course not actually knowing how to utilize all the options (winch, etc.)
Plus, it is kind of fun taking a $1,000 beater you buy with 240,000 miles on it and driving it 15,000 miles across the globe.
|
20 Apr 2013
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Dorset, UK
Posts: 339
|
|
Only started noticing these when I saw a couple in the Moroccan desert but how about a Dacia / Renault Duster as a bargain priced Overlander?
From £8995 brand new, buy do your trip and then sell on again?
|
22 Apr 2013
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,232
|
|
there isn't a new vehicle on the market in Europe I would take on a long remote trip. Too much electronics, too sensitive to poor fuel, too complex.
Take a vehicle you know well, and have preferably worked on yourself, as above.
|
22 Apr 2013
|
|
Registered Users
HUBB regular
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 68
|
|
|
I agree on the electronics point to an extent. As far as fuel goes, you generally are okay as you can bring octane booster and cars these days have knock sensors and can regulate themselves in the event of poor fuel. I've gotten some terrible fuel in Africa and Central Asia in the past, but the cars kept on going.
The good news/bad news with electronics is that you end up with a highly efficient vehicle, but with a million sensors that can break or have issues. As long as you know where those sensors are, how they work, and you bring a code reader, you can generally diagnose and fix most issues.
When I've been on the road, we seem to always debat which is more reliable..the new car, or the 30 year old car. In the end it seems to always come to a stalemate! Each have positives and negatives and I think it comes down to the person behind the wheel and his/her knowledge and experience.
|
22 Apr 2013
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 4,343
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by twenty4seven
Only started noticing these when I saw a couple in the Moroccan desert but how about a Dacia / Renault Duster as a bargain priced Overlander?
From £8995 brand new, buy do your trip and then sell on again? |
I first noticed Dacia in use in France in 2007; now they are being marketed in the UK, including the 4x4 Duster, but the price of £9K is for the base model i.e. 2 wheel drive - the 4x4 is priced at much more, but I can't remember how much more. The UK Renault dealers should be selling these if prices are needed.
Personally, I detest carrying the depreciation on any new vehicle. 
__________________
Dave
|
22 Apr 2013
|
|
Registered Users
HUBB regular
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 68
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkabout
Personally, I detest carrying the depreciation on any new vehicle. |
Couldn't agree more. Let someone else take that 20% or so hit.
Does the UK have a good market for certified used vehicles? ...or dealers that specialize in guaranteed/warenteed used vehicles? We have CarMax over here in the US and while theyre prices are hit or miss, the vehicle quality is extremely high.
|
22 Apr 2013
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Dorset, UK
Posts: 339
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkabout
I first noticed Dacia in use in France in 2007; now they are being marketed in the UK, including the 4x4 Duster, but the price of £9K is for the base model i.e. 2 wheel drive - the 4x4 is priced at much more, but I can't remember how much more. The UK Renault dealers should be selling these if prices are needed.
Personally, I detest carrying the depreciation on any new vehicle. |
My point is that the amount some people spend on getting an old car up together is more that the depreciation on a brand new low cost model and then there is the fuel savings as well to factor in.
The base model is basic, but that's the point they are also built in India, Brazil, Russia, Romania and Morocco so are well known.
The base 4x4 is £10,995 btw.
|
24 Apr 2013
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,232
|
|
|
they first came to the UK in the 80s, then disappeared without a trace. There's every chance that could happen again (as with the niva). Then, you'll really see what depreciation is!
The diesel problem is due to the low sulphur requirements of euro 5 engines. neither the vehicle electronics or octane boosters will help you there.
|
24 Apr 2013
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 828
|
|
|
You have to do some work, when your car ist EURO5 (managed DPF).
It has to be unmanaged (Euro4) or less - or the DPF have to be disabled. It is possible to do that, on some brands..
I did a transafrica with a new (2011) car, with euro4, no issues.
|
24 Apr 2013
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,232
|
|
|
unfortunately that then raises the potential for your vehicle to fail it's MOT. Even though you may achieve the required emission standards you have modified it to make emissions worse than the manufacturers standard. Depends how friendly your garage is. My understanding is this would actually, theoretically, be illegal.
But, it's a bit of a minefield!
|
27 Apr 2013
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 194
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by moggy 1968
unfortunately that then raises the potential for your vehicle to fail it's MOT. Even though you may achieve the required emission standards you have modified it to make emissions worse than the manufacturers standard. Depends how friendly your garage is. My understanding is this would actually, theoretically, be illegal.
But, it's a bit of a minefield!
|
Yes it's a minefield but having said that there are plenty of companies in the UK who will remove your DPF, reprogramme and remap your ecu and make any sensor adjustments necessary. Euro 4 or 5 isn't an issue for them.
Unless things have changed the MOT for diesels only covers a pretty primitive smoke test?
I threw the CAT away on my wife's VW 2.5TDi years ago and have never had any issues getting it through the MOT.
Do you think it's the high sulfur content that causes an issue, or the "dirty" fuel? For example you need to use high quality, low ash, engine oil in DPF vehicles. My thoughts were that the DPF would clog if used with dirty fuel and constantly request a regen. Eventually shutting the engine down in to limp home mode. Anyway, as I say above, pretty easy (if expensive) to chuck the DPF away.
My old school, fully mechanical, MB engine seems to love high sulfur diesel. Smokes like hell but runs really smoothly 
|
27 Apr 2013
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 4,343
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodwoodweirdo
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]How good can you expect a Prado SX be for under £2500 ...
|
It's too little information for me to hold an opinion: I would want to know much more about a specific vehicle, it's history and how it has been maintained.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpyrek
Does the UK have a good market for certified used vehicles? ...or dealers that specialize in guaranteed/warenteed used vehicles? We have CarMax over here in the US and while theyre prices are hit or miss, the vehicle quality is extremely high.
|
As a short answer, yes. There is a strong market for pre-owned/second-hand, = two terminologies that are in use for such vehicles. There are also many dealerships for all standards of vehicles and it is possible to buy a warranty for up to, say, 3 years on pre-owned cars/bikes, while many dealers will offer their own warranty.
__________________
Dave
|
29 Apr 2013
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London
Posts: 621
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussG
Yes it's a minefield but having said that there are plenty of companies in the UK who will remove your DPF, reprogramme and remap your ecu and make any sensor adjustments necessary. Euro 4 or 5 isn't an issue for them.
Unless things have changed the MOT for diesels only covers a pretty primitive smoke test?
I threw the CAT away on my wife's VW 2.5TDi years ago and have never had any issues getting it through the MOT.
|
That's interesting - I thought (in the UK at least) that if any vehicle had a certain level of emissions compliance when new, you had to maintain that level throughout its life ie you would doom the vehicle to failing the emissions part of its MoT if you removed or changed anything that had the effect of upping its emissions.
|
29 Apr 2013
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,232
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilesmark
That's interesting - I thought (in the UK at least) that if any vehicle had a certain level of emissions compliance when new, you had to maintain that level throughout its life ie you would doom the vehicle to failing the emissions part of its MoT if you removed or changed anything that had the effect of upping its emissions.
|
yes, that's correct, but at the moment MOT testers are mostly overlooking it, depending on how friendly they are! As I said in my previous post, it's a theoretical breach but in practical terms at the moment it doesn't seem too much of a problem as long as you can pass the required emissions test.
some countries are basically banning any mods at all now! I know of one guy (in Hungary I think it was) who had a suspension lift on his Hilux and was stopped by the police. He was told he had to return it to standard spec again.
Fitting protection bars or replacement bumpers on new vehicles is very difficult now and even on older vehicles fitting a bull bar is illegal (although you can get away with it on an older vehicle as long as it is a winch bar and has a winch fitted).
As above, it's a minefield!!
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...
2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.
"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)
Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.
Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.
Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!
What others say about HU...
"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia
"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK
"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia
"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA
"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada
"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa
"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia
"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany
Lots more comments here!
Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook
"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.
Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!
New to Horizons Unlimited?
New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!
Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.
Read more about Grant & Susan's story
Membership - help keep us going!
Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.
You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.
|
|
|
helps answer the question - Why Go? Inspirational stories by veteran travellers Greg Frazier (5 times RTW), Peter and Kay Forwood (193 countries), Tiffany Coates (Mongolia Mayhem) and Rene Cormier (University of Gravel Roads).
Get Ready! covers planning, paperwork, medical and many other topics! "Inspirational and Awesome!" See the trailer here!
What stuff do I need - riding gear, clothing, camping gear, first aid kit, tires, maps and GPS? What don't I need? How do I pack it all in? Lots of opinions from over 150 travellers!
break down language barriers, overcome culture shock, ship the bike and deal with breakdowns and emergencies."Just makes me want to pack up and go!" See the trailer here!
Grant demystifies the black art of Tire Changing and Repair to help you STAY on the road! "Very informative and practical." See the trailer here!
Ladies on the Loose! For the first time ever, a motorcycle travel DVD made for women, by women! These intrepid women share their tips to help you plan your own motorcycle adventure. They also answer the women-only questions, and entertain you with amazing tales from the road! Presented by Lois Pryce, veteran solo traveller through South America and Africa and author of 'Lois on the Loose', and 'Red Tape and White Knuckles.'
Cotton or synth sweat-wicking t-shirts with the cool Horizons Unlimited graphic on the front and a snappy slogan (changing every year) on the back.
Show your route on your panniers. Great conversation starter when you meet people on the road!
Motorcycle and travel books to inspire and inform you!
The definitive guide to planning your motorcycle adventure! This insanely ambitious 2-year project has produced an informative and entertaining 5-part, 18 hour video series. "The ultimate round the world rider's how-to!" MCN UK.
Linear Mode
