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Other 4wd Overland Tech Brand specific 4WD / 4 wheel, 2WD and Trucks
TECH discussions and info for NON-Land Rover or Toyota.
Contact Overland Solutions for all your custom modifications and setup for overland travel.

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  #1  
Old 8 Feb 2012
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Cheap alternative overland vehicle

How good can you expect a Prado SX be for under £2500 ... OK its well known the heads fail, so invest in a 3.0 head as part of your pre trip departure,

Someone else has the same idea
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/73354-ExPo-Project-1991-Land-Cruiser-Prado-SX-(LJ78)

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3622092.htm

cheers
M
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  #2  
Old 19 Apr 2013
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I look at this question from potentially another point of view, which is how much MORE reliable is a vehicle for which you drop 2-4x as much money?

If you test drive the car, identify issues, know what it costs to fix, replace, deal with, then you are in a good spot. If you can identify the high likely fail points and know the cost to mitigate them, then you'll know if it truly a good deal.

I did this last year with two Subaru FOresters. We purchased them, fixed them up (had to rebuild an entire engine) and shipped them to the UK and then drove to Cape Town.

Great news - they made it! Total cost for the vehicles and vehicle work was about $4,000 USD. So, you can definitely do it and can definitely save a lot of money by doing it.

One of the big things we saw is that a lot of people would "overbuy" as in getting more vehicle and more performance parts than they actually would use and of course not actually knowing how to utilize all the options (winch, etc.)

Plus, it is kind of fun taking a $1,000 beater you buy with 240,000 miles on it and driving it 15,000 miles across the globe.
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  #3  
Old 20 Apr 2013
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Only started noticing these when I saw a couple in the Moroccan desert but how about a Dacia / Renault Duster as a bargain priced Overlander?

From £8995 brand new, buy do your trip and then sell on again?
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  #4  
Old 22 Apr 2013
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there isn't a new vehicle on the market in Europe I would take on a long remote trip. Too much electronics, too sensitive to poor fuel, too complex.

Take a vehicle you know well, and have preferably worked on yourself, as above.




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  #5  
Old 22 Apr 2013
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I agree on the electronics point to an extent. As far as fuel goes, you generally are okay as you can bring octane booster and cars these days have knock sensors and can regulate themselves in the event of poor fuel. I've gotten some terrible fuel in Africa and Central Asia in the past, but the cars kept on going.

The good news/bad news with electronics is that you end up with a highly efficient vehicle, but with a million sensors that can break or have issues. As long as you know where those sensors are, how they work, and you bring a code reader, you can generally diagnose and fix most issues.

When I've been on the road, we seem to always debat which is more reliable..the new car, or the 30 year old car. In the end it seems to always come to a stalemate! Each have positives and negatives and I think it comes down to the person behind the wheel and his/her knowledge and experience.
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  #6  
Old 22 Apr 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twenty4seven View Post
Only started noticing these when I saw a couple in the Moroccan desert but how about a Dacia / Renault Duster as a bargain priced Overlander?

From £8995 brand new, buy do your trip and then sell on again?
I first noticed Dacia in use in France in 2007; now they are being marketed in the UK, including the 4x4 Duster, but the price of £9K is for the base model i.e. 2 wheel drive - the 4x4 is priced at much more, but I can't remember how much more. The UK Renault dealers should be selling these if prices are needed.

Personally, I detest carrying the depreciation on any new vehicle.
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Old 22 Apr 2013
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Originally Posted by Walkabout View Post
Personally, I detest carrying the depreciation on any new vehicle.
Couldn't agree more. Let someone else take that 20% or so hit.

Does the UK have a good market for certified used vehicles? ...or dealers that specialize in guaranteed/warenteed used vehicles? We have CarMax over here in the US and while theyre prices are hit or miss, the vehicle quality is extremely high.
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  #8  
Old 22 Apr 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkabout View Post
I first noticed Dacia in use in France in 2007; now they are being marketed in the UK, including the 4x4 Duster, but the price of £9K is for the base model i.e. 2 wheel drive - the 4x4 is priced at much more, but I can't remember how much more. The UK Renault dealers should be selling these if prices are needed.

Personally, I detest carrying the depreciation on any new vehicle.

My point is that the amount some people spend on getting an old car up together is more that the depreciation on a brand new low cost model and then there is the fuel savings as well to factor in.

The base model is basic, but that's the point they are also built in India, Brazil, Russia, Romania and Morocco so are well known.

The base 4x4 is £10,995 btw.
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  #9  
Old 24 Apr 2013
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they first came to the UK in the 80s, then disappeared without a trace. There's every chance that could happen again (as with the niva). Then, you'll really see what depreciation is!

The diesel problem is due to the low sulphur requirements of euro 5 engines. neither the vehicle electronics or octane boosters will help you there.
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  #10  
Old 24 Apr 2013
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You have to do some work, when your car ist EURO5 (managed DPF).

It has to be unmanaged (Euro4) or less - or the DPF have to be disabled. It is possible to do that, on some brands..

I did a transafrica with a new (2011) car, with euro4, no issues.
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  #11  
Old 24 Apr 2013
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unfortunately that then raises the potential for your vehicle to fail it's MOT. Even though you may achieve the required emission standards you have modified it to make emissions worse than the manufacturers standard. Depends how friendly your garage is. My understanding is this would actually, theoretically, be illegal.

But, it's a bit of a minefield!
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  #12  
Old 27 Apr 2013
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Originally Posted by moggy 1968 View Post
unfortunately that then raises the potential for your vehicle to fail it's MOT. Even though you may achieve the required emission standards you have modified it to make emissions worse than the manufacturers standard. Depends how friendly your garage is. My understanding is this would actually, theoretically, be illegal.

But, it's a bit of a minefield!
Yes it's a minefield but having said that there are plenty of companies in the UK who will remove your DPF, reprogramme and remap your ecu and make any sensor adjustments necessary. Euro 4 or 5 isn't an issue for them.

Unless things have changed the MOT for diesels only covers a pretty primitive smoke test?

I threw the CAT away on my wife's VW 2.5TDi years ago and have never had any issues getting it through the MOT.

Do you think it's the high sulfur content that causes an issue, or the "dirty" fuel? For example you need to use high quality, low ash, engine oil in DPF vehicles. My thoughts were that the DPF would clog if used with dirty fuel and constantly request a regen. Eventually shutting the engine down in to limp home mode. Anyway, as I say above, pretty easy (if expensive) to chuck the DPF away.

My old school, fully mechanical, MB engine seems to love high sulfur diesel. Smokes like hell but runs really smoothly
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  #13  
Old 27 Apr 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodwoodweirdo View Post
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]How good can you expect a Prado SX be for under £2500 ...
It's too little information for me to hold an opinion: I would want to know much more about a specific vehicle, it's history and how it has been maintained.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpyrek View Post

Does the UK have a good market for certified used vehicles? ...or dealers that specialize in guaranteed/warenteed used vehicles? We have CarMax over here in the US and while theyre prices are hit or miss, the vehicle quality is extremely high.
As a short answer, yes. There is a strong market for pre-owned/second-hand, = two terminologies that are in use for such vehicles. There are also many dealerships for all standards of vehicles and it is possible to buy a warranty for up to, say, 3 years on pre-owned cars/bikes, while many dealers will offer their own warranty.
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Old 29 Apr 2013
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Originally Posted by RussG View Post
Yes it's a minefield but having said that there are plenty of companies in the UK who will remove your DPF, reprogramme and remap your ecu and make any sensor adjustments necessary. Euro 4 or 5 isn't an issue for them.

Unless things have changed the MOT for diesels only covers a pretty primitive smoke test?

I threw the CAT away on my wife's VW 2.5TDi years ago and have never had any issues getting it through the MOT.
That's interesting - I thought (in the UK at least) that if any vehicle had a certain level of emissions compliance when new, you had to maintain that level throughout its life ie you would doom the vehicle to failing the emissions part of its MoT if you removed or changed anything that had the effect of upping its emissions.
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  #15  
Old 29 Apr 2013
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Originally Posted by ilesmark View Post
That's interesting - I thought (in the UK at least) that if any vehicle had a certain level of emissions compliance when new, you had to maintain that level throughout its life ie you would doom the vehicle to failing the emissions part of its MoT if you removed or changed anything that had the effect of upping its emissions.

yes, that's correct, but at the moment MOT testers are mostly overlooking it, depending on how friendly they are! As I said in my previous post, it's a theoretical breach but in practical terms at the moment it doesn't seem too much of a problem as long as you can pass the required emissions test.

some countries are basically banning any mods at all now! I know of one guy (in Hungary I think it was) who had a suspension lift on his Hilux and was stopped by the police. He was told he had to return it to standard spec again.

Fitting protection bars or replacement bumpers on new vehicles is very difficult now and even on older vehicles fitting a bull bar is illegal (although you can get away with it on an older vehicle as long as it is a winch bar and has a winch fitted).

As above, it's a minefield!!
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