London to India, via Russia, Mongolia

[Goandays]

First timer for a long trip, so excuse my ignorance.

I'm looking to leave in September 2015 to India. In view of the problems re Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran I am looking to go round the Himalayas rather than under them.

I've looked at this route, and if I knew how to post it graphically I would.
London, Holland, Germany, Poland, Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, to St Petersburg, Moscow, Irkutz, Ulan Bator, Beijing, X'ian, Muse, Kolkata, Goa

I don't envisage any problems getting to Moscow.
The questions to all of you experienced overlanders are as follows What are the roads like in Lithuania, Belarus, Latvia and Estonia? If I keep to the main highways, I am assuming that the roads all the way to Irkutz should be good. Can anyone confirm that?

The road from Irkutz through Mongolia to Beijing also looks like it is highway. Any tips?
China itself I have heard can be a nightmare but I am planning to keep to the highways and visit Beijing for the China Wall and Forbidden City and X'ian for the Terracotta army. Other than that I will be heading down to the Myanmar border to cross at Muse? Any body had experience of crossing the border here? From what I gather getting from Myanmar to Assam in India should be relatively plain sailing. Or am being too optimistic?

[Goandays]

Hopefully Route map is now showing;

[chris]

Road conditions are the not the issues you should research first. Primarily, please research a little regarding Carnet de Passage requirements for your proposed route and the permits/ expense/ hassle of travelling with a motor vehicle through China and Myanmar, among others.

Browsing the forums and the search function (top right) will assist you.







PS. to the hubb!

[Habi]

Originally Posted by Goandays

First timer for a long trip

Hi,

have you already been planning this longer? I am sorry in advance in case I underestimate your experience/knowledge, but these are my thoughts in case you are not aware of the paperwork complications:

We ourselves will go on our first big trip from the Netherlands to Kyrgyzstan and back this summer. The countries we go through are relatively "easy" to organize and we have been planning this for more than 8 months(!) now - we needed every single week of it! We contantly struggle with new unexpected complications regarding paperwork and expenses.
And again, our route contains only easy countries (outside of Europe only (Turkey,) Georgia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia)

But you are planning to go through extremely difficult countries.

First of all many of the countries of course require visa. That often includes invitations or other expensive paperwork.
Not to speak about the struggle to enter China with your own vehicle, as chris already mentioned. I read advices that you should start the China procedure at least half year in advance, because it is just very(!!!) complicated and also expensive. What I know for example is that you need a chinese drivers lisence and a chinese guide bringing you across the country. Im sure there is much more to it. I dont even know about the countries south of China.

Reading the internet I got the impression that the most common and easy route to india is via Iran and Pakistan. Then you only need a Carnet and have to organize visa for less countries.

I think that the road conditions are the last thing you have to think about. Again, I am sorry in case you are aware of all of this and actually your last struggle is about the road conditions. -> Like I said, I am not experienced myself, but I have been planning my first trip for a while now and I realized how much struggle even easy countries for newbies can be - and your route is not easy at all, it seems pretty hardcore

[Goandays]

I was originally looking at the Turkey, Iran, Pakistan route but due to the conflicts and traveller advisories I looked at alternatives.
I then looked at and was planning on Moscow, train to Beijing then train from X'ian to Lhasa and riding through Nepal. In light of the recent disaster in Nepal, I thought the last thing they needed was another tourist needing scarce petrol, hence why I altered the route again to take in Myanmar.
The carnet and Insurance will not be a problem and that I can sort. Visas I can sort out.
Before going through that and spending weeks camped in the embassies sorting out the paperwork, which I know will be necessary, I was after hints and tips regarding the road conditions.
At the end of the day if the roads are virtually impassable, there's not much point in having a permit to be able to travel.
I have looked at a number of posts and it seems that China is possible unescorted, Myanmar I don't think so, but will check again.
My questions related to the state of the roads, but also about crossing borders (in terms of hassle) even when you had the carnet, and correct paperwork / permissions.

[motoreiter]

Originally Posted by Goandays

First timer for a long trip, so excuse my ignorance.

There is plenty of info available on this site and ADVRider about your general route, you should take a look.

Originally Posted by Goandays

I'm looking to leave in September 2015 to India.

You didn't say what mode of transportation you'll be using, hopefully not a motorcycle if your starting in September. Even in a 4x4 it could get interesting out in Siberia, depending on when you plan to be there.

Originally Posted by Goandays

I am assuming that the roads all the way to Irkutz should be good. Can anyone confirm that?

Paved, yes. Good? Depends on your definition.

Originally Posted by Goandays

The road from Irkutz through Mongolia to Beijing also looks like it is highway. Any tips?

? I am not sure that the Mongolian border crossing near Irkutsk is open for foreign travelers, and I've read that the road is abysmal. The road from Ulan Ude to Ulan Baatar is paved, if that is what you mean, but I wouldn't call it a highway. I'm not sure where you read that you can drive through China unescorted, that contradicts everything I've ever read/seen about the place.

[Habi]

About China:

In the "Southern Asia" section there is a sticky about and agency that recently started to organize unescorted China-crossings. However, on the Facebook Hubb group two weeks or so ago there was the info that some overlanders apparently broke rules while crossing China unescorted. So the agency wont offer unescorted crossings anymore. Thats at least the info I have.

Sorry btw for not answering the question about roads in the first place. When reading your initial post it wasnt clear to me if you were aware of the amount of paperwork you will have to organize, so I thought i mention it, just in case^^. But its clear now. (When I first started to plan it took me forever to find out which countries I can go through paperwork wise and which are difficult.)

[Overland15]

we had paid for permits for unescorted crossing of China and yes some turkeys in 4X4s spoilt it for us and everyone else. we are in Laos and ready to go! no-one will help you with the unescorted permits at present. we are going Myanmay India and then in a corner again.
You can do Mongolia, Russia, Korea, Japan and then Thailand. We nearly opted for that route but quite logiatical and costs for visas and transport etc.

[Overland15]

oh also Myanmar has to be escorted as well. usual crossing @ Mae Sot Thailand. We are going with Burma Senses

[Overland15]

my advice is to read other blogs of people out there now. there are many. Ours is current for Oz to SEAsia so far and we will be entering Myanmar June 2.
roostersoverland@gmail.com

[victor.pereverzev.5]

Hi, Goandays!

I've travelled a bit around Russia (being the country's citizen) and can tell you that the roads on your route, at least until Novosibirsk (huge city by the way) are fine The leg leading up to Omsk and Novosibirsk are quite long and there aren't too many petrol stations, so make sure you top up awhen you see one. 300 km range will be fine.

Do make sure you are not speeding between St.Petersburg and Moscow! The "highway" goes through villages and that automatically reduces the limit to 60km/h from, I think, 90km/h most places on that road. This road is one of the most police-infested in the whole of Russia and they will want your money!

It's been a while since I was in the Baltic states, but from what I remember the roads there are just fine too.
Having said that, any road in the former USSR will have an occasional pothole out of the blue on a seemingly perfect road.

The one thing you must think about is weather!! Starting in September is VERY late! October in Russia may have you riding in snow and if you have to do 1000km in one day in cold weather… you won't like it!!!
Have a tent with you in case you get tired before reaching a motel in the middle of Russia. Most sleepers are located just outside towns of a decent size.
Unless you're going to really race it across, I would suggest rethinking the route to go south from Moscow eventually getting to Iran and Pakistan. The Black Sea is lovely in September!! Good for a swim. Mountain roads in the region are beautiful, even though may not be quite as well maintained. People in Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan are very hospitable and autumn is the fruit season. Georgian wine is wonderful, if you get the real stuff (don't buy in Moscow though). You can try going through the Stans too, but I've not been that way. Anyway you go, southwards will give you time in terms of weather seasons.
The road across main Russia is beautiful in a 'alone in the wild' kind of way, but very uneventful (till Novosib at least). Once you get to the Buddhist republics of Tiva (if you ad a little d-tour) and Buryatia (not sure of spelling in eng) and Irkutsk, it'll get interesting.

Oh, and Mongolia can get pretty cold too, if you get there later in the autumn. If you change your dates and keep to the original route, the Altai region bordering China (south from Nobosibirsk) is really beautiful! Donno if you can cross the border to China there, though.
If you do go to Irkutsk area, give yourself a few days at Lake Baikal. Its beautiful!! Really.
It's coming back now… once you go up from sea level and planes of main parts of Russia, roads will deteriorate. Still tarmac, but not as good, but you wouldn't speed on a mountain road anyway. Do not go to Irkutsk later than mid October. You will freeze on the road!!! I would say Sep is the latest. (there is a reason why I'm repeating myself ) Great in the summer though.



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[moggy 1968]

roads though Belarus, lithuania, latvia and estonia are fine, better than a lot of Polish ones!


The main routes through Belarus are long, straight and with decent tarmac (I've driven everything from a landcruiser to a Porsche in Belarus with no problems, except getting nicked for speeding in both!). Off the main routes the roads are often good quality gravel or dirt tracks, easily manageable by a 2wd car.


Politics in Belarus are a little tricky, the border at teresspol takes 2-6 hours. You may need an agent for a visa as you need a letter of introduction. they have great difficulty understanding the concept of someone leaving the country through a different border to the one they went in by so you would need to explain this at the border, as all vehicles are logged in and out.

[nigel_tailyour]

Exactly how do you plan to get into China?


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[aditya raj kapoor]

Hello Goandays,
I have just coe across your chat. have you done your trip? i m planning a rtw in 2017/april. do connect, we can chat. maybe you are from Goa?
I am.