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  #31  
Old 25 Dec 2007
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All the best Dodger, I am at work and have been most of the day, I think from posts, that Martynbiker as been riding and chilling out in sunny Spain, hope you have enjoyed the day.
Can only reconise Laurel and Hardy, who are the others?
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  #32  
Old 25 Dec 2007
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Oh yes! have i EVER.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave ede View Post
I think from posts, that Martynbiker as been riding and chilling out in sunny Spain, hope you have enjoyed the day.
Aye been out riding in the Mountains and off road here in Sunny Spain, well, it has been warm today, open face lid weather and I have a sunburned face too!
this is what I been up to Dave,Dodger and anyone else who wants to see........

The Bah Humbug! Xmas Day Rideout..... - ADVrider


Martyn
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  #33  
Old 28 Dec 2007
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MCC I Love it

I’m With Ian on this one the MCC events are great I’ve been doing them on and off for about 10 years on solos and sidecars
At the moment I have an XT600E the only mods I have done to it is one tooth down on the front sprocket and a set on trials tyres MT43s
I’m not doing the Exeter this year but will be there for the Lands end at Easter if you are quick you could join the club and ride in the lands end

Dave sorry to hear that you had a bad experience of the MCC but lets be fair the rules are there for a reason I don’t know what type of other events you have competed in but I sure if you turn up at any of them with your number stuck on the back of your head they are going to tell you to sort it out have you ever read the ACU rule book there are pages of stuff like size shape and position of numbers , We all have to stick to the rules and its not that difficult give it a go you won’t be sorry

If you are thinking about it why not go and watch the Exeter and talk to some of the riders one of the best places for this is at Sims as the Village hall there will be doing food and drinks here’s the link to were it is

MCC | The Motor Cycling Club - 100 Years of Motorsport

MCC | The Motor Cycling Club - 100 Years of Motorsport
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  #34  
Old 31 Dec 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOB UK View Post
I’m With Ian on this one the MCC events are great I’ve been doing them on and off for about 10 years on solos and sidecars
At the moment I have an XT600E the only mods I have done to it is one tooth down on the front sprocket and a set on trials tyres MT43s
I’m not doing the Exeter this year but will be there for the Lands end at Easter if you are quick you could join the club and ride in the lands end

Dave sorry to hear that you had a bad experience of the MCC but lets be fair the rules are there for a reason I don’t know what type of other events you have competed in but I sure if you turn up at any of them with your number stuck on the back of your head they are going to tell you to sort it out have you ever read the ACU rule book there are pages of stuff like size shape and position of numbers , We all have to stick to the rules and its not that difficult give it a go you won’t be sorry

If you are thinking about it why not go and watch the Exeter and talk to some of the riders one of the best places for this is at Sims as the Village hall there will be doing food and drinks here’s the link to were it is

MCC | The Motor Cycling Club - 100 Years of Motorsport

MCC | The Motor Cycling Club - 100 Years of Motorsport
1) I have ridden in one day 'feet-up' trials...where it was and is common place to have your number on the back of your helmet as well as a one on the front of the bike.
2) One day long distance trials with numbers as point (1)
3) Enduro, stick-on numbers front and side of machine
4) MCC trial, the only one that want a special mounting for the number.

Riding numbers were only a small reason for my disappointment with the MCC, it was the general attitude at the Popham start and "You will have to see the chief scrutineer at Yeovil" threat. Once I'd got to Yeovil the chief scrutneer turned out to be a decent bloke.
I know Ian has a passion for trials be it one day or LDT's but if he is to get anywhere in promoting them they(MCC) will have to change their attitudes especially to the angle of reg' plates considering the majority of the UK's offroad bikes are enduro based and road legal but obviously not MCC legal. Despite my 'run-in' with officialdom I enjoyed the event but believe me Ian has his work cut out to turn things around.
And still no one has come back and answered any of the points I brought up in a previous post?
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  #35  
Old 31 Dec 2007
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scared or embarrased Dave?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave ede View Post
1)
And still no one has come back and answered any of the points I brought up in a previous post?
They are either scared to come out of the closet (too busy thrashing the schoolboys) or Embarrased by their total stupidity in the face of reasonableness. I mean c'mon, Bob, this is what you wrote...... have you ever read the ACU rule book there are pages of stuff like size shape and position of numbers ,
EXACTLY! Pages not just ONE page, multiples thereof!.... of stuff like shape n position of numbers. No wonder the average bloke considers the MCC boring. you lot are too tied up in wanting to have 'rules' for this and 'rules' for that,and whatever we do we cant let him ride with a sticker that is not applied correctly and straight, its against the 'rules' !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good Grief.
This is the type of that Dave & I are against. Condemn us if you must, but I would rather ride alone than with a bunch of tossers that are bothered wether or not my number is on 'Correctly'

Martyn
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  #36  
Old 31 Dec 2007
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I rest my case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martynbiker View Post
They are either scared to come out of the closet (too busy thrashing the schoolboys) or Embarrased by their total stupidity in the face of reasonableness. I mean c'mon, Bob, this is what you wrote...... have you ever read the ACU rule book there are pages of stuff like size shape and position of numbers ,
EXACTLY! Pages not just ONE page, multiples thereof!.... of stuff like shape n position of numbers. No wonder the average bloke considers the MCC boring. you lot are too tied up in wanting to have 'rules' for this and 'rules' for that,and whatever we do we cant let him ride with a sticker that is not applied correctly and straight, its against the 'rules' !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good Grief.
This is the type of that Dave & I are against. Condemn us if you must, but I would rather ride alone than with a bunch of tossers that are bothered wether or not my number is on 'Correctly'

Martyn
This is probably the most comprehensive reply that could ever be aimed at the MCC with their love of the 'rule book', not only do they have their own one but also in conjunction with the ACU one (Blue book). I have a copy somewhere. the sort of book that you would read if on 'Death Row' then you would find yourself 'pushing' in further up the queue just to end the pain .

Is there a place in motorcycling for anything other than basic rules?

Due to the constant threat of litigation even our Enduro club is having to go Limited....even more rules, but unavoidable.


I hate rules, I say The Rule book and just
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  #37  
Old 31 Dec 2007
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youll be Joining an 'Outlaw Motorcycle Gang' then Dave?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave ede View Post
I hate rules, I say The Rule book and just
No, wait!....... even THEY have rules....... Hmmmmmm .....now that reminds me EXACTLY why I choose to ride ALONE!
OK, riding alone is Unsafe, Stupid and probably Grossly Negligent, but and here is the point its FUN,and whats more its MY choice. there is no-one to point a finger and say you have done something 'wrong', wrong in whose eyes anyway? the MCC's?, the ACU?
I stop when I want to, more often than not, I don't stop other than for a 'P' and a Picture..I make my own pace, ride where I want, when I want, at a speed I like. If I want to 'Pop' the odd 'Wheelie' I do, if I want to re-ride a section of track/ road/ riverbed/ goat-path because I enjoyed it.. I do... I have that freedom, a freedom not given to riders in Organised Events.
and you know the BEST bit Dave? I don't have to wear a silly Number!!

Come over and Join Me sometime Mate, You Will LOVE it!


Oh Oh! those Boxes are probably against the rules Dave! ( Page 123, paragraph 3 subsection 4 )



not all the roads are as smooth as this one........


and not a Tweed Jacket, Pipe or Flat Cap in sight!
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  #38  
Old 31 Dec 2007
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MCC supplementary regs section J " Motorcycles classes must NOT attach numbers to Clothing, but MUST be fitted to a flat plate (plastic is
recommended). One to face forward and one rearward."

It took me all of 3 minutes to find on the MCC website . Not hard really .
There are assholes everywhere Dave and it sounds like the scrutineer at the start was , in your opinion , one of them , maybe he has the same opinion of you .The chief scrutineer was , in your opinion , a reasonable bloke and you then went on to enjoy the event .
You weren't excluded.
A happy result I would have thought .

Perhaps a well written letter to the Clerk of the Course would be a better way to get your point across to the organisers . All letters written to the club officials should be read out at meetings .
I know that when I was on the committee of a 4WD club we were very conscious of members feelings and always tried to accomodate factions within the club by making new classes or by changing certain regulations when necessary .
However we ignored gossip, sour grapes and attempts to spoil the clubs reputation by disgruntled competitors , thankfully I can only recall one occasion when a member competed in an illegal vehicle and even then we allowed him several competitions and turned a blind eye until the full membership could vote on the vehicle's eligability .Unsafe vehicles were never allowed to compete .

When we first formed the club , we wanted to keep things simple and unfettered by rules , however we found out that the committee would be personally liable for any injury or damage to competitors or spectators .This could have been ruin for most of us , therefore we had to become either a limited company or join the RAC MSA , we chose the latter for simplicity, insurance and commonality of vehicle regs . Thus , although we then had to play by their rules , we were able to carry on holding events as a club and drivers could also carry on entering and having fun competing , [which after all ,is what it was all about] .

Your comment about what effect it would have if more 20 year olds competed ;
I can only think that they would be welcomed with open arms , I know in my old club we always had a good cross section of ages .Age is only one aspect , frame of mind is what counts .
I've known some incredibly hidebound ,annoying ,unadventurous prats who still had peach fuzz on their chins .

If you DO want to bring about a change , I suggest you DO write to the MCC and state your concerns , it is the only way to lend credibility to your comments .
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  #39  
Old 31 Dec 2007
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If you had read carefully and not just the 'number' placement before running to the MCC rules, you would have seen that there was more than one issue with them.

I took my displeasures up with Ian the MCC PR man for motorcycles, and our offroad club of some 120 members has one member that participates at MCC events on a regular basis and has done for years.
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  #40  
Old 31 Dec 2007
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so is it the BIKE or the RIDER that Competes Dodger?

The bold is my replies Dodger.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger View Post
MCC supplementary regs section J " Motorcycles classes must NOT attach numbers to Clothing, but MUST be fitted to a flat plate (plastic is
recommended). One to face forward and one rearward." So is the BIKE competing, or the RIDER, it would make sense for the RIDER who pays his dues, and signs in, to wear the Number, what if 3 riders all crashed and were unconcious, how would you identify them?

thankfully I can only recall one occasion when a member competed in an illegal vehicle and even then we allowed him several competitions and turned a blind eye until the full membership could vote on the vehicle's eligability . .So by your own admission, to suit Themselves, to make it convenient for Themselves, THE CLUB BROKE THE RULES!

Unsafe vehicles were never allowed to compete. What about unsafe riders? did you Drug test the winners to make sure they had not taken any Banned Substance? and if not, why not? Recreational Drug use is very common these days. surely the MCC would want to make sure that they were 'clean' in all aspects, after all an insurance claim could cripple them, as you pointed out.........

When we first formed the club , we wanted to keep things simple and unfettered by rules , however we found out that the committee would be personally liable for any injury or damage to competitors or spectators .This could have been ruin for most of us , therefore we had to become either a limited company or join the RAC MSA , we chose the latter for simplicity, insurance and commonality of vehicle regs . Thus , although we then had to play by their rules , we were able to carry on holding events as a club and drivers could also carry on entering and having fun competing , [which after all ,is what it was all about] . Yes after a while the tail starts to wag the Dog..... not the other way round!
have a good un'

Martyn
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  #41  
Old 31 Dec 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martynbiker View Post
The bold is my replies Dodger.......



have a good un'

Martyn
Well Martyn , it's a dangerous world , if you don't carry ID - you can't be identified , a valid driver's licence has to be produced at the start .

No club rules were broken , the vehicle was allowed to enter but not to compete for a trophy against other class eligible vehicles .

We once stopped a fellow from driving who went to the pub at lunchtime , drink and drugs are not allowed . Do you want everyone to be tested at every event ? Get Real !
The MCC are covered by insurance from the RAC MSA and the ACU , if you have concerns then talk to them about it .

As for the tail wagging the dog , again - get real , nobody in their right mind would risk bankruptcy because they happened to enjoy organising events as an unpaid but enthusiastic amateurs .

I was giving you all some of my experiences as both orgainiser and competitor ,hoping that it would put some of the criticisms into perspective . Wailing on endlessly about the regs because you don't like them is fine but doesn't really achieve much other than filling the pages here .
If dave ede joins the committee of his enduro club as it becomes a limited company , I am sure he will have a much clearer idea of how bloody complicated it becomes when you try to put on competitive events for others to enjoy .
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  #42  
Old 31 Dec 2007
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I thought i was being 'Real' Dodger....

you admitted your club broke the rules, and that could have resulted in an accident, which could have resulted in a law suit.
I can only recall one occasion when a member competed in an illegal vehicle
YOUR words, not mine..... COMPETED & ILLEGAL in the same sentence......


enough said......

Have a good one Dodgy!

Martyn
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  #43  
Old 31 Dec 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave ede View Post
If you had read carefully and not just the 'number' placement before running to the MCC rules, you would have seen that there was more than one issue with them.

I took my displeasures up with Ian the MCC PR man for motorcycles, and our offroad club of some 120 members has one member that participates at MCC events on a regular basis and has done for years.
I'm glad you took it up with the MCC on an official basis .

Maybe I read you post wrong before I "ran to the MCC rules "
But I did indeed see more than one issue .
There were three issues I believe :
No tax disc -invalid number placement - angle of number plate .
By your own admission you were in violation of two regulations , the angle of the number plate seems a fatuous reason for complaint from the scrutineer , but even so you could have been excluded , --but you weren't .
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  #44  
Old 31 Dec 2007
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AH Martyn , to add further fuel to the fire ,and to help your never ending quest of hair splitting .
I stated that no club rules had been broken .
The competition was a trial where one competes against the course , not against another vehicle or driver .
I could dig up a list of rules and regs and competition descriptions and spend hours explaining the complexity of the situation and maybe even ask for witnesses from the old club if they could be traced .

But then you might just be taking the piss .
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  #45  
Old 31 Dec 2007
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im not splitting hairs, your contradicting yourself!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger View Post
MCC supplementary regs section J " Motorcycles classes must NOT attach numbers to Clothing, but MUST be fitted to a flat plate (plastic is
recommended). One to face forward and one rearward."

It took me all of 3 minutes to find on the MCC website . Not hard really .
There are assholes everywhere Dave and it sounds like the scrutineer at the start was , in your opinion , one of them , maybe he has the same opinion of you .The chief scrutineer was , in your opinion , a reasonable bloke and you then went on to enjoy the event .
You weren't excluded.
A happy result I would have thought .

Perhaps a well written letter to the Clerk of the Course would be a better way to get your point across to the organisers . All letters written to the club officials should be read out at meetings .
I know that when I was on the committee of a 4WD club we were very conscious of members feelings and always tried to accomodate factions within the club by making new classes or by changing certain regulations when necessary .
However we ignored gossip, sour grapes and attempts to spoil the clubs reputation by disgruntled competitors , thankfully I can only recall one occasion when a member competed in an illegal vehicle and even then we allowed him several competitions and turned a blind eye until the full membership could vote on the vehicle's eligability .Unsafe vehicles were never allowed to compete .

When we first formed the club , we wanted to keep things simple and unfettered by rules , however we found out that the committee would be personally liable for any injury or damage to competitors or spectators .This could have been ruin for most of us , therefore we had to become either a limited company or join the RAC MSA , we chose the latter for simplicity, insurance and commonality of vehicle regs . Thus , although we then had to play by their rules , we were able to carry on holding events as a club and drivers could also carry on entering and having fun competing , [which after all ,is what it was all about] .

Your comment about what effect it would have if more 20 year olds competed ;
I can only think that they would be welcomed with open arms , I know in my old club we always had a good cross section of ages .Age is only one aspect , frame of mind is what counts .
I've known some incredibly hidebound ,annoying ,unadventurous prats who still had peach fuzz on their chins .

If you DO want to bring about a change , I suggest you DO write to the MCC and state your concerns , it is the only way to lend credibility to your comments .
Dodger Quote:
Originally Posted by Martynbiker
The bold is my replies Dodger.......



have a good un'

Martyn


Well Martyn , it's a dangerous world , if you don't carry ID - you can't be identified , a valid driver's licence has to be produced at the start .

No club rules were broken , the vehicle was allowed to enter but not to compete for a trophy against other class eligible vehicles .

We once stopped a fellow from driving who went to the pub at lunchtime , drink and drugs are not allowed . Do you want everyone to be tested at every event ? Get Real !
The MCC are covered by insurance from the RAC MSA and the ACU , if you have concerns then talk to them about it .

As for the tail wagging the dog , again - get real , nobody in their right mind would risk bankruptcy because they happened to enjoy organising events as an unpaid but enthusiastic amateurs .

I was giving you all some of my experiences as both orgainiser and competitor ,hoping that it would put some of the criticisms into perspective . Wailing on endlessly about the regs because you don't like them is fine but doesn't really achieve much other than filling the pages here .
If dave ede joins the committee of his enduro club as it becomes a limited company , I am sure he will have a much clearer idea of how bloody complicated it becomes when you try to put on competitive events for others to enjoy .


So which was it? was all I was asking?
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