Money; Americans vs the Rest of the world regard money and travel
 

Ok, the title and subject may strike a nerve on some people, I didn't know how to put it any other way but my concern and questions are honest as well as legitimate. I don't want this thread to turn into a display of bad temper by my comments as it would in other forums I belong so please keep the reply helpful.

I am an American, by birth not necessarily by choice. I was raised by a patriotic Vietnam vet and ex-hippie in the typical ideals of an american, that bigger was better, capitalism trumps over common sense, and that we are the best country in the world. That being said, I know all three are basically not true. Smaller is efficient, common sense prevails, and that in all countries, peoples are pretty much decent, the governments just can't get along and like to fear monger.

Now to get on with my questions and concerns. In all my reading, most recently, Lois Price's books, it always seems to be the European, or Aussies that are doing the real adventuring, going away overland for months at a time, running the Dakar, sailing the world, doing the stuff that makes life worth living. It seems that when ever something great is done, or a record is broken, it a Brit or German, very rarely an American. It also seems that these groups also have, what, to me seems like a lot of money to do these things with.

Being an American, I had the typical load of credit debt, major student loans and a high interest house mortgage. I've since paid off and disposed of my my credit cards, and lowered my mortgage. However, just yesterday, I was reading on this forum that budgeting for a south american trip is about 20k USD, OUCH!! how do you guys do that? 20K is half of my student loans and I'm 30, in the prime of my life? We want to sell our house and just travel, but get distressed by the cost. Debt is no longer an option for us. So what do we do?

I'm not jealous, or bitter, just inspired by others being able to do these things. I'm not concerned with having a retirement nest egg, health insurance, or something to leave my kids as we are not having any. We just want to be free and be able to feel as though we did something with our lives.

Feel free to be as critical as you want, I made my bed, lay in it etc etc, I want to hear the raw truth so that I know where to go from here.
If you are uncomfortable posting your reply publicly, please PM or email me. I look forward to you responses.
:helpsmilie:

I think you hit the nail on the head at the end of your 4th paragraph: "We want to sell our house and just travel..."

Unless you are very rich, or at least very well paid with the opportunity to take extended holiday time off, most people have to make pretty significant sacrifices to lead the sort of life you describe.

Some have been able to make a living from it (either while they are away, or once they return - like Lois Pryce in your example), but almost every one of them will tell you there were tough choices to make before them made the leap... just as almost all of them (even Nick Sanders) will tell you it was SO worth it once you get on the road...

Some get it out of their system and stop, rebuild their old lives (or more usually create a new and usually better one because of their experience while living outside of 'the system'), some just continue to travel...

I can appreciate how little annual holiday (sorry, vacation x) time US citizens typically get, so taking anything more than a week or two break is tough if you are holding down a regular job... and this is usually the biggest sacrifice you'll have to make, as I presume if you are in a relationship/marriage that your partner wants to go traveling with you too?, and you can always rent your house out for a period to cover mortgage costs?

You don't need masses of money in the bank, but you do need a bit of a safety net - if only for emergencies... while a cheaper bike, camping more often, and fundamentally having the luxury of taking your TIME all helps to reduce costs...

It's certainly not impossible!

xxx

ps. If you enjoyed Lois' books, then I imagine you are familiar with her husband Austin Vince and the guys from Mondo Enduro/Terra Circa? - if not, watch those DVDs - they went round the whole world for less than the price of a BMW GSA!

Thank you for your reply,
We just did 2 weeks and 3115mi in the canadian maritimes for under $1000 ttl. Camping did save quite a bit, as did not eating out. We could have probably done it cheaper if we traveled at a bit more leisurely pace, and ate cheaper lunches we averaged about $60 day for both of us, but some days were as high as $100 if we had to recover from a stoning of hail, or a cold rain. We both feel as though riding like this is not a sacrifice, in just those 2 two short weeks, our nightly tent, became our home. The road our escape. if we did not like our neighbors, or the campground, we were only there for one day and it was behind is. There was no better way to physically see that the future was ahead of us, our past behind than on the bikes. For a week following the trip, we were up at the crack of dawn, eager to keep moving. A stationary life is not for us.

I cut my teeth over on ADVrider, but once I started adventuring out further and further, the appeal of overland travel outweighed the discussions of weekend adventures over there. I was fortunate enough though to learn about the important things like simplicity sometimes outweighs luxury, my wife and I both ride KLR650s due to the simplicity, reliability and ease of keeping track of the idiosyncrasies of keeping one type of bike's bits in order.
I am trying not to finish Lois's last book, (just about at the end now) as I hate finishing books because I wish they would go on forever!!!:clap:

Though, I have heard of Mondo Enduro, but will be saving that for our long cold winters we have in the northeast. Due to a suggestion on Ms Price's website, I have ordered the Adventure Motorcyclist's handbook, I am expecting it tomorrow so I will at least have something to jump to once I'm done with the other book.

I also was shocked when I heard about the $20K estimates from others for an AK to AR trip. I am planning a trip myself and I am budgeting $40 a day. Camping 5 days a week and eating cheap. I wanted a BMW 650GS, but instead I went for the simple KLR650 like you. Keep things simple I told myself.

I went on a 10 day trip a couple weeks ago, and after I got back I really couldn't imagine bringing much more than I did for a 10 month trip (some more tools probably).

The kind of traveling people on these boards do is exhilarating and exciting, but I think in the back of a lot of people's minds it is scary, and over preparation is the symptom of this fear.

With any luck I will be shoving off for my adventure next year June :)

There's the real issue: you're thirty, not 45 to 60. Most of the bikers I meet riding around odd points on the globe are approximately my age, 53. There's a reason for this. In your case, you're in the prime of your life, but not the prime of your earning power. At this stage in your life it's either house or trip; later on, you may have other options.

Of course I'm aware that I'm making ridiculous oversimplifications and crude generalizations....but I think this is a big part of what you're wondering about.

Safe journeys!

Mark

Like you, I also struggle with the financial side. Like you I'm young(ish!!) at 35. Our first major trip was to South America. It took two good jobs, 2 years' saving up, and only renting a flat to be able to do it. To be fair that did include buying a bike (£6K).

So we saved up about £12K for a three month trip (!), but that did include kitting the bike up, kitting ourselves (we were camping newbies), shipping us and the bike over from London to Buenos Aires etc and covering the rent in our absense (we loved that flat).

Bottom line is we had a daily budget and we were pretty sensible. When we got back we still had about £3K left over.

What I'm trying to say is, big budgets aside, it can be done comfortably for less. Camping helps, but choosing you target countries also helps. Some are more expensive than others. Then think if you are crossing the USA as part of the trip, so be it, but if it's just to get to Central/South america, work out if its cheaper to ride it or ship it to the Southern Borders... etc...

I have since moved to Estonia from England and working as an English teacher has meant a HUUUGE pay cut, but plans are still underway for a Sibreia trip in the future (3 years from now?). We simply have to consider cheaper options along the way....

Once you start saving and see the amount grow it becomes easier to decide not to buy this or that and just put the money in the pot! And if you need to sell the home, then sell it: you can always buy another! Or rent it out as a furnished fixed period let...

Good luck with your saving, and enjoy the trip! :thumbup1:

A couple things to note...

1. NO need to apologize for your being American...it's a consequence more than a choice.
2. American's have done quite a bit of adventure...but not as well known. Hell, part of the reason may lie in the fact that in Europe...Holidays are more generous...and that enables quite a bit!
3. 20k for going down to S America...is ridiculous...I went travelled for 1 year...and spent ~$25k...including shipping my bike twice...air travel, gear,laptop, lodging, meals, bottled water, bike maintenance, etc. Of course I was camping 5 out of 7 days a week. Honestly I found it more convenient to camp than to go in search for lodging.
4. You can be in your 30s, have debt, own a house...and leave for a trip-I did.
5. If you found it worth taking on debt for education purposes, why not for personal growth? At the end of the trip...you will be better prepared from a personal(intellectual, emotional, etc.) point of view to move on to the next phase in your life.

At the end of the day...I'd rather regret something I did, than something I didn't. But the choice is yours...and what you value. That's where trip planning honestly begins...

I agree with MotoEdde,
There's no reason to be embarrassed because you're American (or any nationality for that matter). Be proud of what your country has achieved. Sure, consider other people's criticism, but don't let it shape your life if you're in disagreement. I've met countless Americans travelling or working in places during times when the hordes of mainstream backpackers from other nationalities you mentioned were scarce. Morocco when the War on Terror had just started, then again in Egypt & Sudan when the 2nd Irag war started. The majority of them were being great ambassadors for their country by quietly getting on with their lives.

As far as travelling goes, Europeans especially are forced to travel outside of their borders if they want to go very far at all. USA is a BIG country, travelling from the west to the east coast is the equivalent of travelling from London to Dakar. So demographics explains the 'apparent' lack of US travellers around.

Getting out and doing that long trip has got nothing to do with nationality - although for some it's easier as their cultures are more emersed into it - it's about who you are and how badly you want to do it.

Oh no, don't misunderstand me. I was born an american, and hope to retain my citizenship, perhaps gaining a dual-citizenship at some point to allow me to enter a couple countries like Cuba for example. We are a heavily policed state, with many laws, and just as many lawyers. We do have our freedoms, and a rich history for which I am quite proud.

The ambassadors you experience outside of the country, are there for a reason, that they already are willing to experience the world and accept people for who they are. We have fortunately gotten a decent president after 8 years, I just hope he can do something to bring things around.

I've done a little bit of traveling, mostly short stays in Spain, Morocco, Gibraltar, Mexico, and at most Canada. My wife a bit more with a year in Manchester on a year abroad in university.

To respond to another poster; debt put us in this situation, I find my college degree in environmental studies useless where I currently live, so hopefully I will get to use it on the road. I would love to work with an NGO for a bit while traveling and assist with some agricultural projects etc etc, but for now, my student loan debt is is a burden and not worth the trouble. Until I can afford to travel, I'm not willing to add any more debt. I don't know if it is like that elsewhere, but excessive debt load is what has caused the financial issues worldwide. I am a part of it, but took no bailout and have restructured everything to a favorable outcome. Step two is get rid of all debt and travel for a while.
:mchappy:

To try to answer this with out getting to political not going to happen but you may want look at the medium pay Americans make ($35,000 last I have seen) vs the EU. Not the average, the top 1% wage people blow the statistics way over for the USA.
Many EU travelers do not worry about there health on the road there state health insurance is cheap and can cover them the USA has nothing.
33% of Americans will get 2 days or less off the EU gets much more like 30 and there work day is often shorter as well. 14% of Americans will get 2 weeks off. There is no law in the USA for any time off (unlike most of the world) taking any time off can get you fired in the USA.
Regardless what the wold press will tell you most Americans are over worked underpaid on the edge of a brake down and have little hope of it getting better any time soon. We fill the void with junk and food making us fat and owned by things so we are easy to control. Add to that no healthcare where getting sick can bankrupt you and taxes that are given to help the rich get richer and to other nations to help there leaders do the same to there people in the trillions of dollars.

But on a lighter side $20,000 for a down and back to South America is on the upper end you can do it much cheaper. Smaller bikes faster when it is expensive slow where life is cheap. Do not look at all the Junk people cram on there bikes and think you need any of it. a few bags for your stuff will do gust fine.
To help you save cut up the cards you have (but save one you may need the cash if you get in a real bind) pay down the house and refinance it so the payments can be covered by rent and pay the rental agency + a bit of gas money for your self. Get rid of all that junk you have. The less you stuff own the less the stuff owns you.
Think about getting different line of work environmental is grate its green and all that but no one spends a dime on it. I gave up on Hazmat my self people only care about it when the EPA is fining them and there on TV.

Make dam sure your wife is in with all this It will do you no good paying off credit cards at the same rate she is charging them up.

Go to HU meeting there is one in North Carolina, August 20-23 and one in California September 24-27 this year. (or you can get one going in the North East)

Books to read:
Adventure Motorcycling Handbook by Chris Scott
Everything You Need To Know Motorcycle Touring By DR. Gregory W. Frazier

Well,
The first paragraph hit it on the head. If it were not for falling into those things, we would be better off. Fortunately I see that, and I'm making great headway to get out of it.
I've bought the Adventure riders handbook, read that it takes a 1 years prep to do the south American trip...that is hopeful as I was under the impression, that people would call their pals on the phone, say "I'd fashion a trip to Ushuia next month, you up for it.....SURE!!! lets go" Obviously, this is not the case, there is planning, saving and genuine sacrifice. Just yesterday, I started an adventure fund, dropping $500 in an envelope, it's not much, but it'll pay for about 8000mi of fuel on my KLR650!! Extend that out now 1 year and the trip does not seem too impossible!!

going
 

$20,000 USD for South America ?? Thats living a life of luxury....

You could travel for less than half of that if you don't mind camping and cooking cheaply.

It's all about disipline which I wish I had when I was there but I say again..

I think you could have a long, fun and exciting trip for $10,000 USD, comfortably... that would have you staying in cheap but cheerful hostels or campsites and cooking for yourself or eating at the cheaper places the locals use.

Watch Mondo Enduro or Terra Circa and you will see that a lot of fun can be had without a lot of money !

As for where to get the money... Start selling anything you don't need or use on Ebay, put some cash away in a savings account.. cut out the crap you waste money on and put that into a travel jar intead.. You will suprised what you can save and put away, if you're determined. Don't be in a rush ! Its very rare that people can do long trip every year. Most of us are lucky to get away every 2-3 years.

I travel for 6 months then come home and work/save for 2 years ! I still have debts and loans, you just need to save enough to cover the payments while your away and a little more to cover them if it takes longer to find work when you return...

Its a plan I think I will stick to for a while... Give it a go :)

:thumbup1:

Although the consensus on this thread is as tedmagnum says above ($US20k = luxury), the drift on "that other thread" seemed to be that a hundred dollars a day was a reasonable Americas budget, hence $US36,500 for a yearlong trip. Sounded a bit plush to me, but lots of people appear to be thinking along those lines.

Personally, I'm looking at $18k for a full year, with opt-out possibilities after 8 or 10 months. I think this is entirely realistic and lends itself to the occasional splurge. It doesn't include buying and outfitting a bike; nor does it allow for the possibility that my bike will grenade and be rendered worthless at some point. But I think everything else is adequately covered, give or take.

As to savings concepts, it's a truism that what really matters is controlling your spending rather than your income. Assuming you're working at all, it's almost always possible to chop bits and pieces from the spending side of the ledger. These add up rapidly. Then, if you're at all like me, you need to put the money you just saved somewhere out of reach. Don't touch it for anything short of a life-threatening emergency.

Don't know if that's helpful, but sure hope so.

Mark

Well I am American
I broke a Guinness World Record Welcome to www.quadsacrossafrica.com
and that was my second adventure
WELCOME TO JOURNEY TO ESCAPE REALITY was my first.
Oh and I recently raced the Baja 1000

so I would say that it is not true that Europeans are the only ones having the adventure, maybe they are just the ones talking about it :cool4:

Until now that is ;)

:thumbdown: Eeeek, i now hate you all!!!! I was planning a full rtw 2 year trip on 16k, seems like that was being overly overly optimistic. So what should i budget for it?? and am i going to have to try and flog my mother on ebay to raise it?
:confused1:

2 years, RTW... 16k does seem a little optimistic. Is that USD ???

Just save what you can, stay in the cheap countries and come back when you run out of cash !

nope gbp, although my understanding of exchange rates is at best dismal so not sure what it'd be in usd. Although read the tip about changing currency between Colombia and Venezuela, anyone know if that still works, or am i gonna have to revert back to the old stripping to raise funds??

Yer not going around the world without gaining some basic insight into exchange rates first, are you? Have a look: XE - Universal Currency Converter Plug your 16k pounds into the left side, click on US dollars on the right, hit "go."

16k GBP might just stretch to cover a two year trip if you're frugal and smart about it. Supplemented with stripper's wages, well....

Enjoy,

Mark

i figured i'd just call my really clever mate while he's sat in front of some exchange website. Stripping wages hopefully shall give enough for added hotel?

Depends where you are going ??? Have you got a route in mind ?

Forget Hotels.. It will eat into your budget faster than the Taxman through your earnings..

Stay in hostels & campsites for 4-5 nights then treat yourself to a hotel the other days to clean your clothes, have a hot bath, relax in a warm bed etc.

"Make dam sure your wife is in with all this It will do you no good paying off credit cards at the same rate she is charging them up."

DLBiten, tut, tut. can't believe you said that. And I was going to applaud you on the selling in S. America story too. Still will in private email. ;-)

I'm on the LOW end of the scale. I average under $1000 a month in Latin America, and have been doing so for three plus years. Even when I was paying $150 a month rent living 100 meters from the Pacific Ocean in Costa Rica...

Lorraine

Shadowraven,
Hi,
Wow!! Travel around the world at your age I think is possibly one of the greatest things that could happen to you, it would magnificantly broaden your horizons to employment and future opportunities.

A comparison of your situation and mine is light years apart. Your youth versus my experience your financial position versus mine and so we go on and there is much that you have not yet experienced, sounds cryptic but where you are I have been . It all seems hard, kind’a catch 22 situation, to sell the house to keep it to have my cake and eat it too.

Well it’s all about knowledge and how to make things work and how hard you are prepared to work to achieve your goals.

Trying to replace a home (investment) when you return wont be easy, looking at this from a mortgage brokers view, do you have any equity in your property and if so how much, also how it the property financed is it principal and interest, interest only variable or fixed term, if you were to make your loan interest only and if there is enough equity in your property to consolidate your student loan into the property then the results of this should be considered,

The next step is to consider renting the property and can the rental payments meet the mortgage…...break even or be a little positively geared, once positively geared this introduces passive income into your equation, money that you don’t work for.

Always when renting your property take into account land lord insurance to cover loss of income and any damage to your property by the tenants as well as all other insurance, fire flood etc.

I am a mortgage broker and have what is called a passive income from trail this is money paid to me to keep in touch with my clients and service accounts and provide a service to my clients, remember their birthdays, send a greeting card at Christmas; Passive income can be gained from all sorts of industries… worth considering.

Then there is the future and the investment cycle I believe that shortly we will see a massive upswing of residential property all around the globe this will increase the value of property and rental income will increase, consider what you will be able to do with more passive income.

Me I was like you wanting to do everything now and being impatient to get started I was always trying to make that elusive dollar so I could do all, recently my friend introduced me to HU and I was thrilled to read of people traveling all over the world . Thrilled but challenged, so challenged I went and got my licence and bought a DRZ 250 (licencing restrictions) now have bought a 1977 Suzuki GS 750 which is a classic and will use for a weekend rides to cafes and wherever lots of bike riders go> I will meet interesting people and enjoy my self while I learn to ride. I am planning my first trip which will be done with my passive income; BTW I’m 64yo and looking forward to it.

If I can help anyone with a plan please contact me I have gained personal experience in property and am willing to pass on my knowledge so that you can gain your own personal freedom and adventure, hope to meet some of you along the track , or if you are in Australia please take up my offer to visit me.
Kind Regards
Champ

Well,
Just listed the house to be a bit more free!!!

58 New Ireland Rd, Montville, ME, 04941 - MLS #951117 - Single Family Home real estate - REALTOR.com®

Freedom
 

Hi again
:clap:.....Freedom!.. Freedom!!... Freedom!!.... Good luck keep,us informed of your travels....

Regards
Champ

Dual-national here, juris solis USA and juris sanguis Costa Rica. Having a second citizenship doesn't allow you to break US law just because you are traveling under another nation's passport. Right now if I go to Cuba with my Costa Rica passport I can still be prosecuted when I get back to the US. BTW, Cuba doesn't stamp passports. Nevertheless, all US administrations have prosecuted US citizens for traveling to Cuba since the Kennedy ban, unless prior clearance was obtained. It's yet to be seen what the current administration will do since it has only lifted the general travel ban for those with relatives in Cuba.

I've lived in several countries around the world, and have been solo traveling since I was a 15-yr old. I am now 52. I think your characterization of the USA and of US citizens is incorrect although I will say US citizens are 1) overdrawn, (2) overheard, (3) overweight, and (4) overdosed. Europe is following suit as well.

However, perhaps you need to get out in the world and see for yourself a comparison of the US and other countries. If you started with perhaps countries like Angola and Nigeria (two places where I spend a hell of a lot of time) and do some business and living there, then your view of the US might not be so negative. Or start with Latin America even. Not just ride through them on a motorcycle or a jeep.

Good luck with your adventures.

Z

I have some american friends and discussed the traveling issue that americans have.

Im from belgium and on top of that im lucky with what work i do. i get 40 paid vacation days a year (22 is standard in belgium i believe) , so when i travel i get paid by my company. I dont believe that is something you will get when your in america.

On top of that you get "vacation money" in belgium, a little bit extra for the travels or whatever you want to spend on.

That is why i can travel for 6 weeks in a row and dont have to worry about expences when i travel (aslong as i do normal and ceep it cheap)

But how good or bad your situation regarding to traveling is, its never enough, i dream of trips that take over 3 months, but i dont believe my boss would like that idea:stormy:

I feel almost guilty to say that I get 10-12 weeks paid holiday per year.
I will take them all together and with 3 months long service leave and some other leave can probably take around 7 months at full pay and still have my job when I return. :clap:

Let me guess? Teacher?

Firefighter, slightly less dangerous than teaching these days

I managed to do a 12 month UK to Oz trip when I was "only" 33 and like others have said it involves a great deal of work and sacrifice. It took me four years to save up during which time I rented out my spare room, worked 50-55 hour per week, I was allowed to work holidays and get paid at the end of the year for what I hadn't taken and only bought genuine essentals. Before leaving I sold my flat which just paid off the mortgage and sold just about everything else I wasn't taking with me.
Was it worth it and would I recommend it, emphatically yes but if in a relationship you obviously have to both be committed to it. I have met a few Americans who have done similar although they are not as common as Europeans, Aussies, Kiwis or Canadians but it shows it can be done.
Incidentally I have never met anybody who has done similar, packed in the job, sold everything and gone off travelling who regretted it.

I try to save say 10% of my salary. No set figure, just a mindset. Used to scrounge together 3000 quid to roam on (no bike) and went whenever I raised it. About once a year I think. Longest I made that last was about 9 months, although that included some credit card debt for the end of it. But not to much though. Now I set a target amount of funds, give it a few years to suit the job and divide it by the years I've got to raise it. I reckon if people can survive on the minimum wage, it has to be possible to save a reasonable percentage whilst still having a life. With or without mortgage.

Poor Bloody Yanks....
 

That's me, a poor Bloody Yank. Got that a lot in travels over the years, especially living in Ireland a year - the bloody Yank - can I buy you a pint?

And I aplogise for all my loud-mouth, arrogant and aggressive countrymen....they embarrassed me as well.

I did South America and parts of Central America in a 1 1/2 year meander, missed Brazil, and spent a total of 8,400USD which included buying a 4000 dollar moto in Costa Rica and 1 return flight to US....yep I camped a lot. Brought a pressure cooker with me on moto. Lived cheap, no bars...no hookers.

That was 2 years ago, now I take off (I hope if my Dr says I can) this January for around the world. Have $800 a month budgeted which is my social security, and about $10K USD in bank. I'm planning to go 3-5 years, hope to work black in OZ, and a few other places to supplement.

One can travel cheap, just can't party it up.

the bloody Yank.....Zig

Folks, I'm an American, and I have NOTHING to apologize for:thumbup1:

A mate of mine who was in India recently, choose to say he was from New Zealand rather than Australian due to some problems happening back in Aus at the time. I think our countries of birth will always do things we or others disagree with. I think the important thing is not wear your citizenship as a badge of honour that must be defended to any person that has a different point of view. You are representative of that land but not a crusader for national truth.

Anyway back to the RTW trip, I find my self in a similar position at 33yo and having done a few trips which I thought would be enough. I look at this forum almost daily and dream of where I could go. Sell everything and go ? I don't know if I could. Maybe that means I never will ? Doesn't stop me dreaming about it.

Can we have a conclusion to this from Raven? the last we heard was that your house was on the market and that was two years ago, what happened and have you been anywhere? :scooter:

in the budgeting proccess too... another ADV checking out HUBB

... reading this made me scratch my head a little. There is absolutely no way that you need 20,000 USD for a trip like this.
I have been travelling by motorcycle for the past 11 months in South America (Chile, Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Paraguay) and I average an 15-20 USD per day. There is days I don't spend anything, because I get invited to live with some family and they give me food and everything, other days I just stay somewhere where I like it. Put down my hammock, go to the next Carnicera, get a half a kilo of meat and some bread and thats all I need for the day.

I am only 21 though, started when I was 20 years old and I intend to travel another year and then see where or if I can go to university somewhere.

I wrecked my "first motorcycle" and am about to buy another one in a couple of weeks. The one I have been travelling with was a XT 550 and the one Im about to buy a little bit smaller... but it'll do.
And saying that its "allright but certainly not better" is not really true either... I remember about 2 weeks ago, driving down the Ruta 40.... in the last parts that are actually still "ripio" (gravel), I dont know how many BMW and V-Stroms I overtook, and Im not sure if it mightve just been that they didnt know how to ride, but they werent going faster than 30-40 km/h and I had no trouble going 60-80 km/h with my lighter bike.

I am no mechanic by the way and I don't really have a plan, but what I found to be most important is simply staying calm. Something breaks and its not one of the few things I can fix, I just wait by the side of the road and EVERYTIME someone stops to help. I had the bike on the back of a pickup about 6 or 7 times, rebuild the engine twice, and even though I had to sell the bike (or what was left of it after the latest ****-up) its all going well.

Just do it, and thats not just a cool thing to say, but the truth. There are good people in every country and to me it seems that the less they have the more they're willing to share. Just because someone says that to take a ship somewhere with the bike on it costs that much, doesnt mean it actually does, if your willing to just wait a bit and actually talk to people.

I also got here speaking not a single word of spanish, 11,5 months later Im translating for the few tourists I meet. I made a lot of friends that I can always go back to and thats worth more than anything, it also would most likely not have happened if I never had any problems or wouldve straight away called "the proper authorities".

A couple of pictures for anyone that has FB and is interested....

(https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...0643236&type=3)

Oh Im german btw..... haha.... ;)

Lots of admiration for the way you are doing your trip. You've taken up residency on the "less money=more time end of the spectrum (although the combination of bragging about going fast while saying you wrecked your bike shortly afterward makes me wonder how that affects your budget). However.....

Just because people--especially poor people--give to you freely doesn't mean you should give nothing back. In fact, if you've got more than they do (which you do), maybe you should give back more than you take. That's the way it's meant to work, and that's the way most cultures do it all over the world.

This doesn't necessarily mean money, but it often means things you purchase with money: tools, food, clothes, furnishings. I don't mean to denigrate the value of intangibles you may also bring--labor, news and stories of the larger world, whatever. But poor people are poor, and you're not.

Just something to think about.

Enjoy your trip!

Mark

I actually am, what makes you think I'm not?

Oh and I certainly give what I can, but I don't carry a whole lot, especially nothing that I don't need. So what is it that you suggest? Me not travelling or me having more money? I don't really see myself as the bad person here, as I really don't cost them a lot. They dont give me their guest room that they would've otherwise rented out to someone, I sleep in my hammock in their backyard or on the couch/ floor. And if they really couldn't share then they wouldn't. Really only proved that you don't need to have a lot to share, and as soon as I don't need something or I can help them out somehow (which has happened quite a few times) I do what I can.

Sadly having a german passport doesn't instantly make me one of the rich. :)

/edit: Oh and I didn't wreck it as in having an accident, but rather breaking the engine block ... from the inside you could say. Also I didnt mean to be bragging. I wouldnt say I was going fast, I'd say the BMW were going slow, as even though everyone tells you they are THE Adventure Motorcycle (which is a pretty important tag to be on all expensive travelling tools) and that the BMW GS 1200 is just made for this job, it simply isn't. I had trouble picking my bike up with the winds on the road here and I don't want to imagine picking up a BMW here.

Thanks for replying though, hope you get my point. Last thing I want to do while travelling is exploit anyone.

I think some of this is about language uncertainties, which makes me glad we're not conversing in German! Glad to hear you are keeping on the positive side of the ledger.

One of the main differences between people who claim cheap trips and people who report expensive ones is the price of fuel. Riding a lot of miles, I used a lot of fuel--I'm guessing I spent 6 or 8,000 USD in a year in Latin America. Riding fewer miles, you're spending less on fuel. That's a big part of why you're traveling more cheaply than I, and most other, riders. A fast trip is expensive; a slow one can be much cheaper. No mystery there.

Another major difference is lodging. Staying places for free or very cheaply will save a lot over the course of a year or two. If I spent $20 per night more than you, that's another US$7300 on a yearlong trip. Most riders spend more than you, and mostly they do it willingly, by choice. No mystery there, either.

Another difference is the bike. I used a KLR, leaving home with almost 50k miles (80k km) on it and returning with 95k miles (155k km). I'm still using it. Blowing up, crashing, selling or abandoning the bike is a real cost of the trip. Buying a new bike in order to take a long trip, or buying a new one halfway through is a real cost. Needing an engine rebuild or having a final drive shipped to who-knows-where is a real cost. Etc.

FWIW, "everyone" tells you all sorts of stuff, including about BMW's. Ragging on them is a good way to start a pointless argument and render this thread useless.

enjoy,

Mark

Um, well...

Concerning the first four paragraphs:

I don't remember writing that I don't understand why I spend less. It's quite obvious that you'll end up spending less when you spend less, isn't it?!
Simply pointing out that I do.

And concerning the last paragraph;

I don't have a problem with anyone spending more money on whatever they choose to, including doing the trip with a different/ bigger bike and I don't have anything more to say on the BMW Topic, simply that it is my opinion that the only thing that makes BMW's popular among travellers, is that it rarely breaks down.
But you're right that this is not the place for this discussion, especially as it's mainly a matter of preference.

Have a good day !

I took this: " ... reading this made me scratch my head a little. There is absolutely no way that you need 20,000 USD for a trip like this." to mean "I don't understand why anyone thinks it's so expensive." Probably another language thing.

So ok, never mind.

Mark

I don't think it's a "language thing". I think you simply don't want to understand it. But helpful as I am I will make one last attempt to clarify, as it's unlikey, though possible, that you're not the only one who didn't understand.

need - definition of need by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

"1. A condition or situation in which something is required or wanted"

In this case "required" is probably the best synonym.

So let's try and read the sentence I wrote with "require" instead of "need".

" ... reading this made me scratch my head a little. There is absolutely no way that you REQUIRE 20,000 USD for a trip like this."

Could this possibly help?
You're very much welcome.

COsts
 

This post seems very helpful when thinking about the cost of a big trip. I am toying with a big trip down through South America then over to Africa and up the Eastern side.. The idea would be to make it to Europe where I could leave the Bike with friends, and return to the US. Work some more to save up the funds, to do a second trip toward the East. Maybe by then, Peace will break out in the Middle East and I could ride through there as well

"BMUU'S rarely break down" That's the biggest myth in motorcycling, the best marketing in the business has much to do with popularity. Off topic I know but if I had a dollar for every fully kitted out BMUU GSA I've seen obviously only purchased for the Image - I'd have that $20,000 bucks !!!!!

Ditto, I agree with the above - I'm 62. I certainly couldn't afford a Unimog based camper when I was 30!!! - I was driving a bare bones Landcruiser.
Interestingly, in an elapsed total of 8 months travelling around Australia (away from the usual haunts of Sydney, Cairns, Uluru) we met many many Australians of course, lots of Europeans - but not one single American!!

Charlie

I think the hardest part about getting out there and traveling is getting out the door of your old life. I realized, much as the OP and many of the responders have, that you can either wait until you're older with a good paying job and lots of time off, or travel young and give up on the 'ideals' of home ownership, domestic partnership (unless you have a FANTASTIC significant other), and material goods.

I slowly started getting rid of crap as I moved through my second stint through college. Each spring and fall, I looked at the stuff I had and threw more and more of it away, gave it away, sold it, traded it, or whatever to just be rid of it and didn't replace it unless it turned out to be absolutely necessary. It took about three years, but as it stands now I can just about fit everything I own on my motorcycle or in a smallish box that gets USPS'd to whereever I determine my next destination to be. At around the same time, I got a summer job in Alaska... two weeks later that box was in the mail and the bike was packed, and I moved to Alaska from Maryland. I still have bills, I still have some debt, both of which should be settled by the end of summer I hope thanks to this job, but most importantly I have my freedom. :funmeteryes: At 28, 29 in three weeks, I'm finally doing exactly what I want to be doing: working to travel and live.:scooter:

Cost
 

What people seems to forget is the life at home is not for free.
So all the costs travelling is not "extra"

You eat at home. I does not have to cost more if you travel South America or Asia.
You pay your rent at home. That amount will easily pay camping on camping grounds in cheap countries.

No bills for electricity, water, heating... to pay

I will soon retire from work. And I will get a low pension that is on the limit to live a decent life in west Europe. But that will be enough to travel South America.

The key is to save money during the working season. I`m 45 and was able to do overlanding for 1.3 Years over the last 10 years.

Much more would be possible, if I would enforce it.

Live cheaper (flats, house), save bucks you can spend too in Restaurant / Bars / clubbing, use a cheap mobile phone, older computer, older cars.

Look for better payed jobs, trigger career chances, and safe bucks. Made your own food, less meat more pasta and so on.

Look for your complete livespan - to travel 4 years and run into money problems if you are retired - dont look like a balanced plan :rolleyes2:

Surfy

^ That is true. The dollar may have great purchasing power in many countries, but that doesn't mean I can just leave whenever I want without it affecting my finances significantly.

Holy thread bounce Batman :o

Very good OP I thought. I don't think there's any real difference in propensity to travel being American or otherwise. Lindbergh was American, one of the most dedicated travellers I know is American. But Americans have the advantage of a vast country on their doorstep with no need for passports, visas or currency exchange, it's not unnatural to feel there is a lot to do there. And you only need to cross one border to travel even further. So it's kinda circumstantial really.

As for the money to travel, everyone has different thoughts on it. When I was young and unencumbered I could just jump on a bike and ride round Europe for pretty much as long as I wanted. If I racked up some debts, I worked to pay them off. Now, older, debt free and once again time rich I can go further abroad and stay for longer, but I do have to be careful that what I spend doesn't leave me short when I need it to live on, too old to want to flog my guts in the daily grind. Living at home isn't free, no, but it's a damn sight cheaper than life on the road. I'm not buying fuel every day, constantly buying parts for the bike, I'm not staying in hotels, or eating in cafes and restaurants. Yeah I could live on bread, cheese and water under canvas but I can see that attraction of that fading after a short time. The rule of thumb number for travel costs is $60 a day - more in the west, less in the east. I don't spend anywhere near that living at home.

In the end some people work like hell and save up for their trips, some sell up (and come back to what, I wonder?), others claim they work on the road. The holy grail seems to be blogging your way round the world, I prefer to avoid such commercial writings. But there are no magic shortcuts, money is money and for most of us it doesn't grow on trees. You need to cut your coat according to your cloth, trade off a stable lifestyle for one that is far more precarious (financially as well) and decide what matters more to you. If you run out of money on the road it won't be fun so plan, plan, plan.

Interesting to revisit this thread during Covid 19 lockdown from a saving point of view.
Leaving aside earning potential, at this troubled time, I suspect people who are still earning are saving a lot more than usual: no restaurants, pubs, hairdressing....... the list goes on.
There used to be a program on TV in the UK called ‘Pay your mortgage off in 2 years’. It basically looked at 2 aspects of people’s lives - earning and saving.
1 - Improve your earnings by utilising your skills and possessions and work as much as you can.
2 - spend as little as you can.

I’d certainly like to know how Raven got on :mchappy:
There is a chance that things won’t get back to normal for a year or two. Instead of eating into savings for a trip planned for next year, I’m going to start saving (as soon as I get back to work) and see what happens bier

^ Certainly the case for me as well. A few weeks ago (or was it months ago now?) my girlfriend and I have been looking over more ways to spend money particularly due to a planned trip to Mexico and we have some stuff bookmarked like this page, but now... I'm resigned to the fact that we might not feel completely safe leaving for the next year or so. Disappointment management in some way. I'd also feel more secure putting the money I'll manage to keep for a rainy day.

I've told myself that I need to just forget about any international travel for the next year, and count myself lucky to be able to do some travel right here in British Columbia.

Hotels and such are supposed to come out of lockdown on June 1st, so some friends and I are planning to rent a house in the BC interior via AirBnB, VRBO.com, etc. and do a bit of a road trip up there. Stay for a week, ride back.

My suggestion is to plan similar getaways in your local neck of the woods, and remember that there's always next year!
:mchappy:

It's clear that OP means "from the USA" by the term "American" so I'm responding on this assumption, and answering with some care, since the topic can become somewhat political.

I think, as others have mentioned, that a driver for people from the USA is that holiday/vacation time is tiny, so people perceive that a multi-month trip is not feasible. This has already been mentioned. A second key point is that health care is by far the most expensive on the planet, which is apparently what the country wants. This adds significantly to living costs for many. Health coverage for a multi-month trip is not cheap. In addition if your health care is through your employment, then what others in the world may choose to do is less accessible. In Australia, for example, as well as having what people from the USA would consider long annual vacation time, every so often you can take "long leave", which is what many Australians do to travel either around Australia or overseas. Since health care is not a concern, it's also not uncommon to work for a short term contract (1-3 years) and then take a trip before looking for another contract.

My first "big trip" was following a contract like this - it was my first full time employment - I fulfilled the contract then took off in August and travelled until January. I did this as economically as possible - hitchhiking through Africa. I seem to recall that it worked out at around USD 10 a day, including a number of expenses for things like climbing Kilimanjaro, a few flights to get to interesting places, a good hotel every so often, so not "roughing it" in my view.

Our last "big trip" was around Australia for 10 months. We both consult and can take a year off every couple of years - save for a year, travel for a year, more or less. We camped about 2/3 of the time to make it possible in terms of cost (an unpowered campsite in Australia averages USD 25 a day). I was ill once - went to the local clinic (Pine Creek), had all the tests they could run, they sent me to hospital in Katherine (an hour's drive) - they offered to take me in an ambulance, however we went in our own vehicle. At the hospital, they ran every test under the sun, with diagnosis and prescription. Total bill - Zero.

So, I guess my message is - find a way to get medical coverage, figure out how to take the time off you need, and get on the road.

PS: I'm an American too - citizen of Canada, which, the last time I checked, is in America.

The only comment I would make is hunker down and buy a piece of real estate that you can rent out that locks you in the market.

While now you say you don’t want a nest egg or a house etc, life goes by in an instant. You wake up and your 55!!!!!!!

That unit you bought pays for your travel later on.

The house I own cost $80’000 in 1992. To buy it now would be $850’000

We will rent that at $3000 pm. We can travel anywhere. But if you told me that in 1992 I would have spat my coffee.

So just get something is my advice.

Good luck to you!

BTW I don’t think it’s a USA thing. It’s a western thing.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Just spent 6/7 weeks riding down through the US so not a great deal of data but we did stay with a few North Americans so here’s a thought for what it’s worth.

Looks in general that consumerism is a lot greater in the US than the UK. The amount of new and nearly new big pick up trucks is staggering. Then there’s the other toys: motorcycles, boats, quads etc….
In the UK these things are expensive and attributed to wealthy people but it looks like everyone has them in the States - well everyone we met anyway.
Also in the UK people are used to going abroad for holidays so it’s something to save up for and, if they enjoy travel they will save for an extended trip.

Our friends and relatives in the States don’t seem to have 2 or 3 week holiday periods and if they do they certainly don’t need to go far to enjoy them so maybe travelling or trips or whatever are just not on their radar.

No offence just a thought.

I added a post earlier, and today thought about things and ended up writing the following, which I hope adds a little to the discussion. Others have given similar comments so there's some repitition.

1) re cost, it's all pretty flexible - how you travel affects cost massively. People spend USD 50K for 10 days in a luxury lodge in Namibia, others spend USD 1000 for 3 months in Cambodia. Anyway - think of costs in terms of the costs associated with travel (fuel, ship/ferry fares, museums, galleries, national park entry fees, insurance, medical expenses, visas, vehicle maintenance), and those which you will be paying whether you travel or not (food, drink, accommodation, insurance, medical expenses…

Now, consider the comparison, between travelling and staying at home.

Fuel: depends on your travel pattern on the road or at home - if at home you commute in heavy traffic for an hour each way every day you consume enough fuel to travel 200 km a day on average on the road. So, no extra cost.
Vehicle/bike maintenance: If you travel 15,000 km a year at home, and travel 45,000 km in a year on the road then your vehicle maintenance will obviously triple. However… if you're doing the maintenance in Colombia or Cambodia labour costs are a lot less than in the USA or Canada and you will end up with overall costs which are similar.
Shipping/ferry costs: clearly these are going to add expense to your life when travelling. Ferry expenses are not high unless taking a ferry from Bellingham to Whittier, Nova Scotia to Newfoundland, or Melbourne to Tasmania. Shipping your vehicle across an ocean is expensive. This is a significant additional expense, however obviously if you don’t travel where you need to ship your vehicle it will not add much cost.
Museums and galleries: You'll probably not spend much on these unles you routinely visit museums and art galleries at home, in which case the cost difference will be the difference in entry fees. In some countries it’s free, in others not, so you need to compare fees between those at home and those where you plan to go.
National park entry fees: Similar to the previous aspect, although when on a long trip you may visit more national/state/provincial/territorial parks than at home. Some parks (Serengeti leaps to the fore) are expensive, others are free or inexpensive. If you plan to visit many parks on a trip look into park passes (e.g., the Wildpark Pass in RSA) which reduces the price per park.
Insurance: Travel insurance may not be any more expensive than the insurance you pay to stay at home - it depends on where and what you plan to do. Comprehensive vehicle/bike insurance for travel in much of the world is prohibitively expensive so most travellers in South America and Africa (for example) take out the legal requirement in each country and no more.
Medical expenses: Medical insurance and “out of pocket” expenses in the USA are ridiculously high (I assume that by “American” The Raven means “USAian”). Leaving and travelling elsewhere is likely to mean a reduction in insurance cost, and medical costs’ being a lot less, if there is any cost at all.
Visas: This is obviously a cost which is not required if you stay at home. Costs range from inexpensive to medium, however USA passport holders have reasonable “passport power” and costs are not that high when visas are required (compared for example with the cost of a UK visa for a Colombian passport holder (last time we obtained a UK visa it cost USD 1137.00! Now travel to the UK for Colombians is visa-free).
Food and drink: you eat and drink at home anyway so the “travel cost” is just the difference. Food and drink costs when travelling in Africa, South America, and Asia are typically less or a lot less than costs in the USA.
Accommodation: Very much dependent on where you go. Campsite costs (unless wild camping) are high in the USA, Canada, and Australia, as well as in some parts of Europe, however a lot less in other areas - you can stay in posadas/BnBs in South America, for example, for less than the price of a campsite in Australia. In cities we usually stay in hotels or BnBs, and when outside cities it depends on the area.

So, overall, taking into account the difference in costs at home versus travelling, it’s not that big a difference. When people say that “budgeting for a south american trip is about 20k USD” you need to decide how you'll travel and compare this with the cost of not going at all.

2) "Americans" vs non-"Americans". I think it depends on the "where". We have met far fewer "Americans" travelling in Africa, Asia, and Australia, whereas in Latin America we've met more "Americans" than Australians and Europeans. The number of Africans we've met outside Africa is very small indeed.

3) Don't overthink it - get out there and travel!

I think the flaw in your argument appears in the 'fuel' section: ...if at home you commute in heavy traffic for an hour each way every day you consume enough fuel to travel 200 km a day on average on the road. So, no extra cost.

While that statement is accurate in itself, it identifies the reality for most people, insofar as that 'commute' is to a place of work, where they earn the $/£/€s necessary to meet all those 'at home' costs. So if you're getting a monthly allowance from Mum & Dad... fine, but for most folk,once they take to the road, in your example South America at a cost of 20k, there's a high liklihood that they'll find those salary cheques are going to stop arriving each month.