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Mount Ararat, Lake Van, eastern Turkey Mount Ararat, Lake Van, eastern Turkey
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  #16  
Old 13 Dec 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelbug View Post
Nomadb, as travelers rely on your information on the HUBB, it would be good not to make a statement about an area you have not been to personally (Hakkari). I can assure you, it looks different from what you see on TV in Istanbul.
Well Travelbug, same thing applies to your comments about northern Iraq beeing safe and stable, been there done that, my observation is quite contrary.

Actually no more coments from my side since travellers can make their own opinions anyway.

Regards
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  #17  
Old 16 Dec 2009
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This Youtube-video represents pretty well what I saw this year on the Hakkari Road. The only thing missing is the fighter jets. And the 30 military checkpoints with tanks (as opposed to police checkpoints!) with VERY nervous soldiers. Judge for yourself.

YouTube - Hakkari Çukurca Işıklı Karakolu 1987/1


Now here is the real situation in Iraqi Kurdistan (as I witnessed it this year, too):

from: Iraqi Kurdistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"As a major economic power in Iraq, Kurdistan has the lowest poverty rates and highest standard of living in Iraq.[3] It is the most stable and secure region of Iraq where not a single coalition soldier or foreigner has been killed, wounded or kidnapped since the 2003 invasion of Iraq.[4] Maintaining its own foreign relations, Kurdistan hosts a number of consulates and representation offices of countries most notably those of the United States, the United Kingdom, Germany, France, Italy, Israel and Russia.[5][6]
"
and from: Kurdistan Region Presidency, Security

"The Kurdistan Region boasts a remarkable security record. Since the war that toppled Saddam Hussein from power in 2003, not a single US soldier has been killed in Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG)-controlled territory. Thanks primarily to its successes in this arena, life in the Kurdistan Region has largely returned to normal and economic development is booming. The current Chief of Intelligence and Security for the Kurdistan Region is Masrour Barzani, who has been serving in this post since 1999."

Or: Kurdistan - The Other Iraq

Or: Backpacking Iraqi Kurdistan: Getting into Iraqi Kurdistan


Talking to experienced travelers: both "countries" are doable, but - as I said - in the Turkish part you need good nerves.
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  #18  
Old 17 Dec 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelbug View Post
This Youtube-video represents pretty well what I saw this year on the Hakkari Road. The only thing missing is the fighter jets. And the 30 military checkpoints with tanks (as opposed to police checkpoints!) with VERY nervous soldiers. Judge for yourself.

YouTube - Hakkari Çukurca Işıklı Karakolu 1987/1


Now here is the real situation in Iraqi Kurdistan (as I witnessed it this year, too):

from: Iraqi Kurdistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"As a major economic power in Iraq, Kurdistan has the lowest poverty rates and highest standard of living in Iraq.[3] It is the most stable and secure region of Iraq where not a single coalition soldier or foreigner has been killed, wounded or kidnapped since the 2003 invasion of Iraq.[4] Maintaining its own foreign relations, Kurdistan hosts a number of consulates and representation offices of countries most notably those of the United States, the United Kingdom, Germany, France, Italy, Israel and Russia.[5][6]
"
and from: Kurdistan Region Presidency, Security

"The Kurdistan Region boasts a remarkable security record. Since the war that toppled Saddam Hussein from power in 2003, not a single US soldier has been killed in Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG)-controlled territory. Thanks primarily to its successes in this arena, life in the Kurdistan Region has largely returned to normal and economic development is booming. The current Chief of Intelligence and Security for the Kurdistan Region is Masrour Barzani, who has been serving in this post since 1999."

Or: Kurdistan - The Other Iraq

Or: Backpacking Iraqi Kurdistan: Getting into Iraqi Kurdistan


Talking to experienced travelers: both "countries" are doable, but - as I said - in the Turkish part you need good nerves.
Thank you for expanding and sharing thoughts, ideas & experience. Wayne
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  #19  
Old 17 Dec 2009
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Dear Travel bug,

I have looked at the youtube link, it shows a border military base, did I get the right link?

If yes, considering the unfortunate situation in Iraq, the borders needs to be controlled. The region as is can not be compared to borders berween US and Canada or between Eropean countries.

I also noticed the links of wiki about Norther Iraq. Northern Iraq is indeed more stable compared to Bagdat region as is. However, still there are problems, bombings and much more army presence on the road. I happened to be there very recently, the road has many blocks where you are stoped an ID's are controlled. To get in the airport the security measures tells you the real story. I had team members who almost witnessed mass bombings in fairly large city. I repeat again this are fist hand experiences.


In my humble opinion comparing Turkiye with Northern Iraq is like balck and white. As a person living in the region and with real life expereince, this what I would contribute here.

Finally I sincerel wish to be ableto witness a safe and peacufull region in short future. The people living there deserve better conditions.

Regards
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  #20  
Old 17 Dec 2009
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Travelbug,

There is no ''Turkish Kurdistan'' and also Iraq kurdistan. Turkish kurds live in Turkey and Iraqi kurds live in Iraq. A lot of people from different etnic roots are living in America. So can we say American Ireland, American China or American Japan ? You can say Turkish kurds but not Turkish kurdistan. And you have to know that there is no problem between Turks and kurts. There is a terrorist organization named ''pkk'' who attack on civilian people and military. That's the problem. Most of our kurt citizens don't approve and don't support this terrorist organization. Because of this problem the east of Turkey there are many military check points for ensure safety...
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  #21  
Old 17 Dec 2009
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Originally Posted by manfredschweda View Post
Thanks guys, really I adored country and people. Camera is a 5y old Fuji Fine Pix pro S3 DSLR (takes Nikon lenses). Yes could still be snowy, as much of it is high up and passes are up to 2600m. And I am not sure whether I was just lucky with the weather. But east and south becomes desert country, receives a lot less rain than Black sea coast.
Manfredschweda,

Thank you for sharing photographs and your comments about Turkey and Turkish people.


Best All,
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  #22  
Old 17 Dec 2009
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but on a more light-hearted note: regional and global tension will only come to an end when governments everywhere finally provide us with free fuel and knobbly tyres, and once and for all ban all types of helmets, except of course those little wee pink ones !!!

I know, but ...
Last edited by waynemartin; 17 Dec 2009 at 16:10.
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  #23  
Old 23 Dec 2009
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No nervousness
Have done the Van - Hakkari - Cizre road in Oct2009, yes many check points, but no nervousness. It slows down enornously past Hakkari. Yes you want to move a bit swiftly. Don't spend time and become the target. I am now in Sinai, Egypt, which receives millions of tourists and it seems it has as many checks.
Anyway, here is my south-eastern Turkey journey
Photography and Journey, South Eastern Turkey, Diyarbakir, Aramaean monasteries, Mardin.
am the original poster.
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Manfred
www.thisfabtrek.com
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