The best LR Defender 110 for Overlanding?
 

Hello there all! I am a newbie about to buy my first LR Defender 110 with the intention of overlanding from UK to Cairo and back (both ways).
Question is... Should I go hardtop or Station Wagon and remove the seats?
There will be me and the missus - hoping to use the back as sleeping accomodation...
As much detail as poss please on the reasons for your preference and no a Toyota is not an option!

Just to throw a little spanner in the works - unless you're going off road a lot you don't actually need the capabilities of a Landy to get to Cairo. It's all fine and good if you want one, no problem there at all, it's just that I'm not sure if you are aware that you can do it in a normal car.

P.S. What about having a bit more comfort and getting a Discovery? Otherwise I'd go for a hard top so that there is a bit more security in the back instead of windows.

You'll get a hardtop cheaper, it will be a bit lighter as well so a little benefit in economy and performance maybe.
A station wagon may be the more prefferable long term though, also it's quite handy being able to open the side doors to get to kit, and a good place to keep a fridge and water supplies.
If you're going to sleep in it, the headlining in a SW might give you a bit more comfort than being dripped on with condensation in a hard top.

I think my choice would be station wagon, and I'd put reflective film or tints on the rear windows to give some privacy and keep the heat out.

Either is fine, I would try and look further ahead assuming you are planning keeping hold of it for a while. I had a nice offer of a really well kitted up 110 station wagon which I didn't take. I subsequently bought a nice hard top 300TDi 110 which I've had for about 10 years and driven round Aus, trans africa etc. The hardtop has been brilliant for my wife and I but is harder to use with a growing family. In the overall picture, I would probably have been better off with the station wagon.

Pros of hardtop are easier to configure back, we actually have more leg room on the second row of seats than a station wagon would give because we have mounted them further back, better security for stuff in back if behind a cargo barrier - could achieve the same in the back section of a station wagon but only covers the rear third as apposed to all of the back.

Con is harder to access. This may be quite significant if you are planning putting a platform to sleep in in the back as if you have a station wagon, you can still use the side doors to access the areas under the platform towards the front where as if you only have a hard top, its much harder to get at all the space underneath - depends what you want to put underneath and how much access you will need to it.

with the benefit of hindsight, I would probably get a station wagon for the immediate needs and for the longer term flexibility.

I would go for station wagon and remove the seats - I also had a 110 SW and did the same, allowing massive storage space with a Kia light truck diesel tank in the rear footwell area, a home made drawer system and plywood boxes for various stuff. We could easily (and did, but not intended) sleep on top of it all, and the beauty was that after the trip a couple of hours spannering and it was back to normal. Of course I am a bit curious why you are ruling out Toyotas!!!
Gil

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"And a Toyota is NOT an option"?
Mmm, strange, but anyway, each to there own.

Toyota Not An Option?
 

Yes, I too are curious as to why you have ruled out a Toyota.
Our story (I'll make it short) goes like this.....
We decided on an overland adventure and of course, living in the UK, Land Rover sprung to mind - hey there are even two or three monthly magazines dedicated to them!
Anyway, we went out and bought a great looking 2002 Defender TD5 110 which had loads of kit already fitted and ready to go - we thought we were made!
Well I then discovered HU and this forum. I also started reading other people's websites and quickly realized that so many of the LR owners spend half their trip and money going from one workshop to the next! Some even dedicate sections to good and bad workshops!! The stories scared the daylights out of us! Check out some of the packing lists too, more spares and tools than some Halfords stores!
I posted discussions on The Hubb and stirred up a few hornets nests but I met some great people who have shared their interesting stories, we learnt a lot.
It wasn't too hard to decide that we should sell our LR and buy a Toyota so that's what we did.
Look - I know people are going to jump up and down when they read this, they always do - but although we think that LR, and I'm talking about the Defender 110, looks the part that's where it stops!
We wanted to enjoy our trip for the experience of going to strange lands and meeting interesting people, not bouncing, limping or being towed to one workshop after the next. We also want to have a little bit of comfort too (there is nothing wrong with that when you are planning on doing a long trip) so we opted for the Toyota. I'm not even going to get into all the other things about the dust which will swirl around, the bad workmanship of the build, the noise etc; etc; there are plenty of things written already for you to do your own homework and decide what suits your needs and wants but I just wish I was in your position before we wasted time and quite a bit of hard-earned cash before we got real.
If I was wanting a good-looking vehicle for a bit of fun in the weekend then I would love to have a Defender 110 but on a serious journey to stange lands then I must say that in this day and age there is no contest.
Good luck!
Barbara

+1

There are 2 very good sayings, most of you will know them,

1. If you want to go into the bush, take a Land rover, If you want to come back again, then take a Toyota.

2. 80% of all Land Rovers ever produced are still on the road, The other 20% made it home,

3. Any body got a No. 3?

Yes, I had a few LR in the past.
They were great fun, only one of them broke down regular, ( old series 3 SWB diesel) the other, an ex airforce SWB petrol, that was reliable enough.

Still ruling out Toyota's?
 

Look around the web after you have read the comments above, and you will find reasons for these comments by the spadeful.

Also interesting to note how many Land Rover specialists now drive Toyota 80 series for overlanding and general use inc towing!

Good luck

If someones wants a Land Rover then there's nothing that'll change he's/she's mind... such is the power of the Landy brand in peoples brain (me included on my first overlanding trip, must admit), but of course after you try a Landcruiser then there's no way back...

3. If you've never had a Land Rover you have no heart, if you still have it then you have no brain.

My Landy reasons...
 

I have read the ongoing debate about Landy vs the Toyota and can understand both sides... however!
This Overlanding is a one chance in a lifetime, dream come true adventure for me and the missus. The experience of the journey is as important as the getting there...
There is (for some unknown reason) no vehicle that excites me as much as turning the key and sitting behind the wheel of a Landy.
In life we are constantly making sacrifices and being ruled by the brain - this is a mission for the heart. Sure we know the stats and opinions for the Toyota but it lacks the edge of romance and adventure.
Toyota make the ultimate in cars - but the Landy have soul, heart and a dreamer's appeal that money and logic can't buy...
Mad? Possibly, but you watch my smile when I turn the key!:funmeteryes:

Get a mercedes G wagen
Star-Motoring: Have Wagen, will travel

Correct!
 

I fully agree, the romance factor is undeniable. I did not want to start a landrover vs landcruiser debate but was only interested in your reasons... Pretty much what I suspected, and I still think the 110/Defender/Series landrovers will never be replaced in terms of emotive 4x4s. If there is no time pressure and you know the vehicle there is something really satisfying about an old landy onto less travelled areas. I never regretted buying my ex-Ghana secret police Defender, and then spending many hours kitting it out. Living in Ghana all my mods had to be planned months in advance, and I learnt masses from rebuilding the vehicle with a really good local mechanic. The vehicle broke down numerous times, but then which 250,000km car won't? Unlike other LRvLC experiences I ended up leaving an 80 series in Mali and making it home in the 'rover - but the 80 was to be fair a totally under prepared company hack! I ended up buying a new 78 (last of the "old shape") 'cause I was in the fortunate position to get one at a super price and due to work pressures I needed a vehicle for short camping trips and occasional longer ones within Ghana/BF/Mali where I could be fairly confident of being back for work in time... If it wasn't for that I would never have changed! Having said that the troopy is also turning into a labour of love and could do everything I want "out of the tin", but that hasn't stopped me modifying! So I say go for the landy - you already know why you want it and the V8 looks great if you can handle the fuel bills and not expect earth moving power!
Gil

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Hi Gil,

As far as "Which 250,000km vehicle wont break down"

Well I hope I don't jinx my LC120, D4d, but at just 30 months old, she has 320,000km under her reliable belt.

It's when I get questions as to weather I park it on a rolling road at night, that brings a smile to my face.

Another "smile bringer" is when the Land Rover owners know the price of all the parts !

Yes, I just got a big grin.

G.

LC invincible
 

My Toyota HZJ75 didn't !!!

Started of at 265.000 km Netherlands to Capetown, got home with 325.000 km after 1 year, 30 countries AND IT DIDN'T BREAK DOWN ONCE!!! Got a couple of broken leaf springs after driving with 70kph in a meter wide half meter deep pothole, but they were not original Toyota parts ;)

Cheers,

Noel
exploreafrica.web-log.nl

Depending on your budget I would recommend a TD5 if your were planning on spending this amount of money, it is by far the most refined defender, body style is personal choice between CSW or hardtop.

I have previously owned a V8 and 200tdi 110s and now have a TD5 and would not go back again it is so much nicer to drive especially after having had the ECU tweaked.

Another reason for the TD5 is they are newer and by rights you should not have as many problems compared to buying an older TDI or V8 110, the youngest TDI will be an R reg and buy now most R regs will have quite a few miles on the clock, and the chances of running into reliability problems will be increased.

A newer TD5 defender on a trip like you are planning will not be any more unreliable than any other make of vehicle, there are a few known issues but most vehicles of any make have one or two issues as well.

Even the mightly toyotas have their problems as well, apart from the HZJ cruisers which are pretty well bullet proof, but ride like a pig on std suspension and drink like a fish compared to the defender, the non turbo versions are not particularly powerfull either, but with an after market turbo or the later turboed ones they are great engines but still drink like a fish.

The 80 series are good, but lack a decent engine, the 4.5 petrol 6 is nice but drinks to much fuel for use in Europe, the 80 series are also getting on a bit as well so some age related problems are staring to come their way, 100 series are very nice to drive but are still not anywhere near as strong as their reputation or the 80/105 series, the IFS has problems when used hard and gearboxs problems with both autos and manual crop up from time to time as well.

My pick for a jap vehicle would be a HZJ 79 or a Nissan Patrol, the Patrol is no where near as refined as the 100 series but it is dam near bullet proof and rides on coils unlke the rear end of the HZJ cruiser so still gives a nice ride, the 3.0lt diesel is OK on fuel but its bigger 4.8lt brother is nice big lazy engine, the 4.8 petrol is a power house but is incredably thirsty on fuel.

But at the end of the day if you want a defender buy one, they are not as bad as the doom mungers say for what you are planning, but in saying that if I was doing a trans africa I would also look long and hard at a HZJ 79 cruiser.

If you are planning a lot of sand driving on your trip you will really have to wring the neck out of a TDI especially when heavily loaded, the TD5 is much nicer in the sand, but still needs to be driven quite hard if you are getting serious in the dunes.

If it has to be a LR do yourself a favour and take a series II disco for a spin as well, the body style is not a mod friendly as the 110s and it does not have the defenders no sh1t looks, but they are a fantastic touring vehicle and with their 90lt fuel tank they also have a much better range than the defender does, remove the rear seats upgrade the suspension and fit a CDL and you will have a great vehicle for the trip you have planned. Getting out of a disco at the end of a long days driving will leave you more refreshed than getting out of the defender. I have a 2002 TD5 110 and my wife has a 2004 V8 disco and I am considering a trip to Jordan from Dubai in the next year or two and if I go I will take the disco as it is a much nicer cruising vehicle and still very capable off road. I just completed a 3700km trip around Oman in 11 days earlier this month in my defender as it was a very off road orientated trip and my 110 is better set up for the driving we were doing, on the offroad part of the trip is was a pleasure to drive but for the 1500 km drive home on the tar I would have killed for our disco, as the temp was in the mid 40s, the 110s A/C works as a chiller at best and will only bring the cab temp down to the low 30s at best where as the discos is very good, coupled with being able to sit on 120-140kph with the cruise control etc makes driving the long distance miles a pleasure. A trip from the UK to Egypt will involve a lot of road miles, thats why I would recommend seriously considering a TD5 series II disco.

Trust me the Prado driven hard has its fair share of problems as well, but kept mainly on the road it will outlast a LR any day, and will not have all the oil leaks and other niggling LR problems. When push comes to shove you cannot beat a beam axle over IFS for hard offroad use, be it LR or Toyota. In saying that if anything ever happens to my wifes series II Disco I think we will replace it with a Prado as her car does not get driven hard off road just touring, dirt roads etc.


http://usera.imagecave.com/cols110/DSC_5383.JPG


Here is a picture or what happens when the bottom ball joint lets go on a prado, this one had to go home on the back of a recovery truck.

Lets face it any car can have problems with off road use .
The main thing has to be preparation , loads of checks of known faults of what ever type of car you use .
The other thing worth concidering has to be depending where your going is can I repair it in the bush ? lots of modern cars most people cant :helpsmilie:..
In landrovers favour in the UK anyway parts are cheap , and the knowledge base is huge .
Having said all that I for one would still stick to my G wagen :thumbup1:..
Twodogs

Prado
 

With all respect but a Prado is not a real Landcruiser, its basically a Hilux with a hardbody.
The real Landcruisers have beam axles in front, even the very modern and up to date 100 series still has a beam axle. So I think the Prado should not be dragged into the comparison between LC and the Defender.

Cheers,
Noel

exploreafrica.web-log.nl

Noel sorry to correct you mate but the new 100 series has IFS with torssion bars which has now been superseeded by the even newer 200 series which has dropped the torssion bars and is now similar to the Prados IFS, it has not really been released long enough to know if they have any problems with the new 200 series yet. I am not 100% sure but I think the solid axle 105 series cruiser is also out of production, maybe it is available in some markets for the UN etc, but I think not as all the UN cruisers that come through Dubai nowdays which get fitted out are the newer style LC70 5 door troppies.

They are no doubt a fantastic vehicle but look worse than my mother in-law, which takes some doing. The ute versions with a decent bullbar looks OK apart from the front axle being wider than the rear.

http://www.toyota.com.au/TWR/content/static/28354.jpg

You can even see in this photo how the front axles is wider than the rear, how the normally level headed Toyota let this happen I don`t know, wheel spacers on the rear solves the problem, but I am not sure of the legalities of running wheel spacers and if over time that maybe it may increase the loadings on wheel bearings etc possibly leading to a failure on vehicles which have spend most of their life heavily loaded.

LR - with the heart
 

nibshis - I hav eexactly the same reasons as you for choosing my Defender. With my heart. OK the head says get a very profitiant LC (more money mind) but as you say everytime I turn the key, or jump on the roof I get an amazing sense of happyness.

And to tell the truth, everytime he breaks down (only twice!) I smile, pat him on the side and tell him I love him!

I'm much happier going with my hear tthan my head. People who go with their, by definition won't understand why us fools go with our hearts, because it's not a rational decision :)

Good luck anyhow. I love my 180k mile, 200tdi.

I know my LC120 has front IFS coils (indipendant front suspension ) and rear solid axles, on coils.
This makes them so strong in my opinion.
Also they ride on coils all round, and if Toyota were concerned about the use of IFS on the front's then I am sure they would have thought long and hard about the newer 100 seies, and the newer 200 series.
All of which have the very same suspension as the PRado ( Land Cruiser 120 series )

I don't know much about the other Toyota's, but the LC 120 would probably take a "real good hiding" before she went down on her knees.

All in all, I believe the 2002 and onwards Land Cruisers are pretty hard to beat as an on road, and an off road vehicle.

On the road, the 3.0 liter D4d will cruise effortlessly, loaded up in the rear.

Fuel consumption at a steady 60mph, (100km/h) on cruise control, is a respectable 30 mpg, with about 300kg load in the rear.
With the 87 liter tank (19.1 gallons) has given me 500 miles with quarter tank left.

So, perhaps the older land Cruisers were thirsty, I know, because my son in law has one, but the newer ones are very economical, as far as 4x4's are concerned.

Graham

Yup - unfortunately the beam axle 105 is out of production and the last ones were scarce as hen's teeth: I know because I was trying to get one for company fleet use. This is a bugger as effectively the only rigid axle LC now available in a station wagon format is the "Mother in Law" 76 series :-) Very nice car (apart from the looks), but for ferrying our staff and visitors on bad African roads it won't win any favours with a shorter wheel base than a troopy but the same rear leaf springs. The new 200 series is also about €35k in it's basic form, so more than €10k more than the price we used to pay for a std 105 series. A bit more than we are prepared (or my MD will let me!) to pay. So we were pretty much left with no choice (assuming we stick with Toyo) but the Prado. No doubt the Prado is good, but 4/5 years pounding the potholes will I am sure take a heavier toll than on a rigid (i.e. non-IFS) axle L/C. If nothing else the front wheel alignment on IFS vehicles can be quite a problem to keep right in the bush. Yesterday I had a shot of a Toyota Tundra V8 Petrol double cab... wow! And the really crazy thing is in the USA they are paying about €18,000 for a very well equipped monster of a p/up. Less than we have to pay for a crappy SA built 3.2 Nissan D22. Some things are just not fair. Although consumption might be a 'small' issue! Interesting to note there is quite a market in USA for dedicated off-roaders converting their Tundras and Tacomas to solid front axles for better articulation.
Gil

Hi nibshis

My Two pence worth: I drove Nairobi to Cape Town and back in the following vehicles:
Landrover series 2a 109 - 1972 - Three times
Suzuki SJ410 1992 6 months round trip
Bedford MJ
Landrover 110 turbo (and later with a Nissan 2.8 conversion engine)
Defender 200Tdi pick-up, converted to a safari vehicle.
I also have varied travel experience in an 1984 Range Rover, a Mitsubishi Pajero and 78 Landcruiser mostly on severely bad roads in Kenya and Tanzania.

One thing I do know is that you shouldnt exceed the weight limits in anyway at all. The worse the road the less you should load the vehicle.

If I can do six months and 24,000 in a suzuki jeep without overloading it, then you can and will do London to cairo in your Defender.

Its an attitude thing, My '79 Landrover Station wagon was an ultimate overlanding machine, slept 2 in the back, 2 on the roof in real comfort, two 40 litre tanks under the front seats and the 80l in the back, winch and welding machine run off the altenator. The original straight 6 2.6 petrol engine is surprisingly great, I took this vehicle everywhere, on every terrain. From up muddy tracks on Mt Kenya to along the sand-dunes on the beach in South Africa. and it diddnt ever not get me to a destination.
However in difficult times I experienced a few breakages, but nothing I could not fix. And certainly nothing that shouldnt have broken given what it went through and how it was loaded.

The Suzuki jeep was small but very capable, in fact other than the very small part, it was unstoppable.
The Pajero (Shogun) is alright, but really not in the same league.
The Range Rover is thirsty, but enormously capable, throw a fridge in the back, and spare wheels and jerry cans mounted on the tail gate and your good to go anywhere in comfort.
The Defender in various guises is my preferred choice, provided you dont overload it. The 4 door stationwagon with rear seat removed or a pick up with a suitable rear are great.
I modified all of mine heavily to suit the purpose, and having the pick up section with a lockable box was really great, but possibly less practical in cities.

If I could make one suggestion it would be a low mileage 110 HCPU 300Tdi, then modify a suitable rear section for your needs.
There are some former national electricity / water board vehicles which have pretty much been prepared for you with side access, these would eb great alternative.

The HCPU Landies are stronger, have a steel rear tub with much wider tailgate making rear access easier.
The 300Tdi engine with modified zeus gears larger capacity iintercooler and you pay landrover to fully service it. i would also consider an additional electric fan wired to the dash board
If you build a rear frame and mount the roof top tent on top of it, with aluminium panel sides or canvas covering steel mesh. The top of the tail gate should be similar to a range rover. It should be completely lockable.
I like having rollup canvas covering steel mesh in frames that can be removed for a more out there feel, that sort of looks like a rear tub tilt, but is practical.

You can also remove the rear window panel to gain access to the front of the tub section.

Ultimately a roof top tent is the perfect sleep solution, one that swings out over the bull bar is neat, because you dont need extra ladders and can move the landy with it up. But one over the side, allows much more scope for a shower tent or additional shade.

In truth you will not have any problems, provided you dont drive like a hooligan, or over load it. Remember; use Low ratio in advance.
Oh and keep the vehicle running cold. dont switch the engine off without running it for a while, preferably faced into the wind, if really warm

Parabolic springs on a series 3 would do just fine, if a little slow.

Enjoy living the dream!

G

Anyway, back on topic :innocent:, with a 110 SW (which i've also got), you can remove the rear panels (with the slidy windows) and bolt in a pair of 'series' (as in, series 2 or 3) plain side panels, they fit straight in, and hey presto, you've got yourself a 110 commercial (As available from the factory),

This will eliminate the side windows, better security etc, and when you get home you can bolt back in the original side panels and get the true station wagon back again.

so you'd gain a kind of "half van/half SW", rear end will be a bit darker inside, might be better for sleeping etc.

Linky to some pics of converted 110's

Sorry, I'm off topic
 

Sorry this is off topic but just a few more thoughts on the 120 Land Cruiser. They're a fantastic vehicle but the front end is a weak point for prolonged off road use. I've had 2 and have clocked up over 100,000km in each with most of it off road in North Africa and throughout Europe.

Corrugations will put a lot of stress on the front end. Double skinning the front inner wings will help. Mine had split from top to bottom on both sides of the vehicle after a few weeks of tough driving. This is a common mod as used by some of our French and German colleagues.

Top wishbone ball joints wear very quickly and Mt toyota will only sell a complete wishbone with ball joint fitted. You can get the joint alone from motor factors but it takes a bit of tracking down. (BTW 90 series joints don't fit!)

Solid axles are definately superior which is why I've now got a 78 series. It's great but, boy, do i miss the 120 series on the Autoroute!

Happy trails,

Jojo

Land Rover or Land Cruiser? The arguments are more hackneyed than a cab. You buy what you want to buy for the reasons that are best for you. If I wanted reliability then a Land Cruiser wouldn't come close: it would be a G wagon every time. But then I didn't buy my truck for reliability. I was under it again this afternoon.

I bought my truck because I love it and because so does everyone else we ever meet on the road. We have a 101. Thirty years old, ex-military so god knows what it's history is, with less parts availability than even a series 3. I can't count the number of people we meet just because they come over with a smile on their face to ask questions about the truck. What's travelling about if it's not about meeting people?

I don't care how many times I break down. Each time I do I meet even more interesting people. Every time I drive it I fall in love with it all over again. That’s the point though isn't it? I have valid reasons to justify the pain, money, time and hassle that even a 101 can bring, so 110? G Wagon? Land Cruiser? Who cares? As long as you have your own reasons and they bring you pleasure then any other talk is tantamount to immature boys comparing dick size.

having expeditioned a 101 for 10 years i'd have to agree with you, they are great vehicles, best of the lr stable - huw is yours the one with the extended ambi body and poptop


for 110's i'd probabily go for a station waggon but fill in the back windows, extra doors give easier access, no windows for more security

Although if i needed a smaller expedition vehicle i think i'd go for a disco from the lr stable and pack light, the extra comfort would be worth it - and discos are cheap too

Hi Rich
Yes ours is the one with the extended back. Hope you aren't missing Tiguur to much! Wouldn't mind picking your overlanding brains - is that OK? Will pm you my email address so you can cantact me if you are happy to talk
Best
Huw

hi huw

as i don't think you can pm yet so heres my email addy

rclafton

at sign

lineone

dotty

net

i do miss tiggs a bit but happy to see his new owners out using him.
The new iveco, while not having the childhood daktari links of a LR is an amazing truck and gets almost as much attention as a 101.

rich

sorry Col Cambell but don't agree with you at all about the td5. The TD5 disco is quite simply the worst 4x4 I have ever driven (and I've driven a few).

There's also the fact that 'Landrover' and 'Electronics' are not 2 words that sit that well together. The extra complexity is also an issue, either fixing it yourself (we aren't all as capable as you!) or using local bush mechanics.

Given the budget for a td5 I would sooner (as in fact I have done) buy an older landie (a 300tdi in my case) and spend the left over doing the necessary renovating and rebuilding.

just my 2 pennith of course

moggy

Land cruiser H60
Landrover 130 300Tdi
Ford Ranger

.
:thumbup1:

The best thing you want for an overland, is a sense of humour and want for adventure.

You have the humour, the rest will be easy.

'vette
2005 - 120 seies D4-d Land Cruiser.
Front Bar
50mm raised
Big Muddies to play.

ozzies are falling out of love with toyota!!!
 

Toyota Landcruiser 200 Series- "Oh what a lemon......"

Toyota 200 Series GXL Land Cruiser Major Dust Problem | 4x4galore

looks like as with mercedes, bmw, landrover and others it's now the bean counters are running the show, not the engineers, with the result that quality takes a complete dive

My two cents on this topic:
Pick a vehicle for which parts (engine, gearbox, diffs, and everything else) are available in the countries you are traveling. And are available in abundance. LandRovers I prefer are those with a 200tdi or 300tdi engine. I like the 300tdi more.
Do not overload the vehicle. Fuel economy is a big deal both for cost but more importantly because of the extra weight that carrying lots of fuel causes. The heavier the vehicle, the harder it will be to avoid getting stuck or more importantly the harder it will be to get yourself unstuck.

I don't know much about Defenders but on the topic of what is a better vehicle. When buying used you can buy a terrible example of the best car and it will be a proper snotter.

I've had a Landcruiser 80 series and a Discovery 300TDi both of the same year but the Discovery had less miles. The Discovery was hugely capable and pretty reliable having only small problems although it did rust. My 80 series Landcrab was much larger and really was in another class offroad thanks to the 3 diff locks and what seems like better axle articulation. It never once broke down although the alarm system failed and I had to bypass it to get it to start, and it had no rust even where I rolled it into a tree the damage never rusted. I don't mean rolled like a 40mph crash, just tipped a little too far over and brushed against a tree.

If I had to do any long journey/trip/adventure I'd first look at a Landcruiser but only the larger ones another 80 series or a 100/105 or a 200 (If I could afford it!), second would a Nissan Patrol Y61/GU , then a Defender 110.

I have offroading friends who absolutely swear by their Landies, they where highly impressed by the Landcruiser and where happy to accept a tow from it but would they change their LandRovers for a 'cruiser? Nope....

I guess it comes down to a brand loyalty thing?

James is right, there is a brand loyalty thing going on.

I've had nothing but Landrovers for over 8 years. Defenders, Discoveries and a couple of late shape Range Rovers. All awesome vehicles. I have always had a Defender for offroading and trips.

However, I'd personally advise something a bit more comfy if you are going to spend a lot of time in it. When I went to Morocco I took a Discovery and it was SO much better. More comfortable, decent air-con and all the oily bits like a Defender so if I had an issue the locals could fix it. :thumbup1:

However, my brand loyaly has been shaken recenty.
I'd happy take a 4x4 Yeti or a Toyota now...



But back to the original question, you're looking at a station wagon or a hard top van 110. If it's just for the trip it's going to be the van. Cheaper to buy and easier to secure. If you go the station wagon route you can remove the rear seats, but why?
A good 110 Station wagon will cost a lot more than a 110 van if you are looking at the older 300Tdi engine.
If you are looking at the later engine the price difference is not so severe. But it's still there.

Overall, I'd take a Td5 disco if it's got to be a Landrover. Did it myself and it was good.

Nice to pull up at camp and all the Defender drivers are sweaty and caked in dust. But you are fresh from your bigger more comfortable seat and have had the air-con set at 20c for the last 8 hours. It may not be such a "hard core" experience, but do you really want that day after day after day?

td5 or 300tdi?
 

Cool thread!

I´m in the same situation at the moment.

Searching for the vehicle spec. to take me from Stavanger, Norway, to Kathmandu, Nepal in a 1 or 1.5 years time. A 4-6 months trip. Sweden, Poland, eastern Europe down, Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, India. Tibet, China, the "Stans", Russia, the "Baltics", Finland, Sweden and back. It WILL be a LR Defender 110SW.

I have one in hand that could be it, 2002 mod. td5. About 125000 km. BUT I´m not sure about this engine.. Anybody with experience with this one vs. the 300tdi? This car is very nicely held and since I am going to have it fully rebuild, (galvanised frame and so on) less things have to be done. I will use the Landy daily when I come back from the trip. Therefore I will have it build for the "long run". I was over at Nene Overland, Peterborough, UK, 2 weeks ago to check out their operation. They do most of the work onsite and seemed to be experienced and they even tried to moderate me when I stated all the equipment I wanted in the car.. (?) Well, my BMW R1200GSA got all the "works", so maybe that´s why I go all the way. It´s a guys thing, isn´t it? :-) Anyway, they also told me about the 2.8l. version of the 300tdi. I got a test ride in an 110SW with it, and, my god, that was something different.. It was really fast and with a lot of torque. The Extec roof is the way I want to go. The Defender will have 4 single seats, Exmoore or Recaro with an National Luna between the back seats. I will even build a frame that will allow 2 persons to sleep downstairs when the starboard back seat is folded. The frame will be folded and put away on the roof when not in use. The car will be a "commercial" edition with no windows in the back department. Extec inventory.

So the question is: Should I go for the td5 engine or the 300tdi?
What about the gearbox? Any suggestions?
I understand that less electronics is better for any overland travel, but will the td5 do it if you have the right diagnostic equipment on board?

Thanks,
Sven

Long term in less developed countries, I would go 300tdi every time, as working on Land Rovers every day I see TD5s in all their unreliable detail. The 2.8 tgv engine is better than either, but make sure you've got a GOOD/recon/new gearbox (or auto) to take the torque, and I would advise a 4 pinion front differential and heavy duty (Ashcroft) halfshafts and cv joints (although for peace of mind I'd have those whatever engine and indeed do in my 300 110)
If it has to be a TD5, go with a new clutch AND flywheel as the dual mass flywheel is a tricky one to source and expensive to ship when you're abroad! Get the head gasket changed and steel head locating dowels fitted in the block (sorry Mr Land Rover, but plastic? What were you thinking?) Might also have the sump removed to check the oil pump drive gear is fitted correctly. Take at least 1 spare injector harness, and get the fuel pressure regulator block replaced so it doesn't drip diesel onto the starter and kill it. (If there's evidence of leakage already, I'd add a QUALITY starter motor to the spares kit too, or fit it before departure.)
Might be worth carrying a spare ecu (tested on the car before departure!) in case you don't spot the oil contamination coming down the injector harness in time.
A spare in tank fuel pump might be handy as they don't like poor quality fuel. At least they're easier to change in a 110 than a 90.
Make sure there's no evidence of water pump leakage (difficult to spot, ask Nene) and finally (for now!) if you're getting a performance upgrade (they do go well I have to say) get the exhaust manifold studs uprated to 10mm otherwise they fracture and the manifold warps...
I've just done 6500 miles through Europe and Morocco, last month, in a rebuilt 1983 110 with 300tdi fitted, and my only real gripes are the oil leaks from diff, transfer box and steering box, dust coming in through every orifice and non genuine front shocker bushes collapsing after 1 day en piste. (Amazing what old conveyor belt rubber can be used for - started out as mudflaps!) I'm sure a TLC would not have had these problems, but that's another thread;-)
If that doesn't tell you my preference... Bear in mind a 300tdi only requires 12 volts to the fuel solenoid to run. A TD5 needs all sorts of electrical impulses to be correct or it will hardly tick over let alone drive you to the nearest DHL office!
As far as gearboxes, Land Rover auto's are reasonably reliable if serviced properly-it's down to personal preference, and the tow start if it won't go argument for manuals is a small thing to weigh against knee fatigue in heavy traffic on the Kathmandu ringroad with the heavy duty clutch on the 2.8 engine!
Safe travels whichever your choice, most vehicle problems are surmountable in the end.
Simon.

I would go 2.8 engine over td5 for all reasons given above , re gearboxes, have it overhauled, and then run on a really good full synthetic oil eg Redline.
manual is just about a necessity, nice and as reliable as the ZF autos in landrovers are . mainly as the tow start thing , as they are front pump only .
Autos are more susceptible to heating problems when worked hard . The heavy clutch with a 2.8 HS is easily solved just put a little inline servo as used in some mini. mg etc. LC even have a optional extra servo clutch setup but dont think will fit to defender, and being toyota probably cost a fortune anyhow! HTSH .

Here is my Land Rover 300TDi 110 Hard Top
 

Our landy is a 300 TDi 110 Hard Top (van) ex-Environment Agency 1997 plate. We did 48,361km through Africa 2010-11. We averaged 28 mpg, never had a puncture, had a few minor mechanical issues but that was it.

Our Landy got us there. We did one year on the road and some "good" African off-road (dunes, rock, deserts, mud) and needed to use the winch several times. When we finished, we did some mods and changes from all the mistakes we made and things we learnt (see link)

Langebaan Sunset: Land Rover Upgrades 2.0 - Part B

We found that 2 extra seats is a defo plus for guides or giving lifts. Sitting inside was also good for privacy and warmth in mountains and African winter at altitude. We can now sleep inside if needed - also a few times when we could have done with that as a fall back plan.

Bottom line on choosing a Land Rover or any vehicle (bike, truck, car, Land Rover or Toyota) is determined by:

1) How far "OFF" road do you really want to go, might go or end up going?
2) Compromise - There is no perfect vehicle as you will find that you will make mistakes, learn what works for you and your kind of traveling style and will probably change a few things if you do it again
3) A lot of roads in many developing countries (and I can speak for many in Africa) are having their main roads tarred..... in reality a serious 4x4 is not needed much of the time but it does give you options.
4) What kind of trip are you going on....slow and plenty of time or time limited and need to motor.....this has an impact on what route you might choose and thus the vehicle you drive.
5) The van varient gives you plenty of options for rear fit out. We opted for a rear seating / sleeping and storage area...... a result of living on the road for 366 days and mainly camping / bush camping.

We like Land Rovers, other people like Toyotas, but in the end the choice is yours. Our 110 300 TDi lived up to its trademark reliability and we are on 190,000+ miles and she is still going strong.

HTH

Nick