KTM Military
 

Hello,
I'd like to introduce a bike that to my knowledge has not been mentioned here before. It is the KTM Military LC 400 LSE and I picked mine up yesterday.
It is made for the German army (and the Dutch I think), they chose it over a BMW 650 GS military model after extensive testing.
It comes with many features as standard, so I hope I won't have to make a lot of modifications for touring in South America.
For a picture (from the web, not of my bike) see below.

Here are some specs and standard accessories:

398cc, 34 hp (detuned for robustness)
158 kg dry (without panniers and topcase)
130 km/h max
low seat height (I'm 180 cm and both my feet are fully and firmly on the ground)
main and side stand
kick and electric starter
large battery (from the KTM 950 Adventure)
easily adjustable rear spring
reinforced frame (max total weight 380 kg)
18 liter tank
uses 91 octane petrol, but can be switched to 80 octane
engine protection
handguards
heated grips
12V power socket
KTM tank bag
Hepco & Becker panniers and top case and super strong frame for these
battery charger
extensive manual (explains all the service work)
set of tools (I think all that's needed for the service)
small wind shield
that's all I can think of at the moment.

I cannot comment much on the ride, I have only ridden it on the motorway from the dealer to my place and I don't want to use it before a full service.
It's not incredibly powerful (I can only compare it to my Suzuki Bandit), but it accelerates to 130 km/h without problems, even uphill. It's quite vibey, but again compared to my 4 cylinder bike. It was comfortable enough for 2 hours and I imagine it would be for longer. I haven't tested the fuel consumption, but the range is said to be over 300 km.
Oh, and the price: 6590 Euros new, I got mine used for 3400 (2004 registration, 7300 km on the clock, good condition). Not bad for a bike with all those accessories in my opinion. Probably not available everywhere, but then Germany is a nice place to visit ;-)

Any comments or questions welcome (I do have more pics if there is interest). And please let me know if you think there are any mods I should do.

looks like a good 'un.
Nice bike with lots of attractive features so it should not need modding, much - learn to live with it and see what you don't like after that.

It's expensive new, but you got what looks like a good asking price.

The low seat is a great idea - far too many of this type of bike are stupidly high in the saddle.

Yes please, let's see some more pics!

pics
 

+1 on the pics.... Looks MUCH better than that GHASTLY ORANGE!

Indeed!

Just had a look on mobile.de - der Automarkt für Gebrauchtwagen und Neufahrzeuge - Finden oder Verkaufen Sie einfach und schnell ihr Auto and there's loads of them for sale. price ranged from 2600 euro to 6500.
Looks like all you'd have to do is pack, kiss mum on the cheek and fuel it up. good to go!
Being a military vehicle i imagine it would be fairly mildly tuned? more for long life than Dakar winning speed. - about right for a trip then!

nice find!

The ones online i saw for sale were reg'd 5/04 and 08/04 would that put them after the reliability problems earlier KTM's had (sorry if this is wrong, I'm not well read on the KTM history, just something I remember reading)

more pictures
 

Here some more pictures (all from the web).
I found mine on mobile.de, but the cheapest I found was 2800, not 2600. I bought it from the dealer in Offenbach, in case somebody is considering a purchase. He has lots of them, at least 30, and he is quite keen to get rid of them quickly (it is actually a car dealer). He painted some black, blue and orange as well. The cheapest ones (in which I was interested at first), have around 22000 km on the clock and are scratched heavliy, must have been dropped a lot in battle ;-) Went for a nicer and more expensive one for piece of mind, although I'm sure the others are fine, too. They all have a full service history btw

There are only 2004 models on the market, this is when the army started ordering them and they sold a lot of surplus ones to dealers last year. I think even the "new" ones are unused from 2004. Not sure about reliability problems before 2004 (I'm not a KTM expert), but I assume the army wouldn't have ordered them if they had shown reliability problems during the test period.

Good one!
 

Hey,

Nice! I'm looking for a more off-road expedition addition for my transalp... . I was thinking about a DR 650 SE or XT 600 or something... . I might check one of these out though. They seem pretty much ready to go.

Any ideas about leg room on these bikes? I don't like em too short... . (Low saddle is not necesarily a plus on those long rides...)

Thanks!

Rob

My sister is a captain in the RLC and had to do her bike test, she did it in the army and all on a KTM EXC, I wonder if its the same as that.... Interesting, I'll have to ask....

The Dutch army have them also (bought then together withe the german army. (we have more than 100 bikes bought)
Reson in NL was the simple technick and service fron KTM, they said...

These loko super super value. Shame about the plastic panniers...bound to get trashed. Eveyrthing else looks spot on.

Anyone know what the service interval is between oil changes/engine rebuilds (some of the KTM offroad bikes are like 20 hours or every 2/3 days in our shoes)

Oil change intervals...
 

Aha,

I checked with Peer on the oil change intervals already, and that should be 5000km. I'd hope with the mildly tuned engine it would last a while. Being an LC4, you can probably slot in a 640 if the engine goes after a while...

Why would the plastic bags go sooner? I would expect they are more robust then most aluminium containers... .

;-)
Rob

PeerG,
From what you say, you visited the dealer in Germany; were there any problems with the buying process?
Getting the bike registered in the UK is another question: any problems there? (I think I understand the basic procedures).
I guess you may have returned to the UK on German export plates?

Thanks for any further information on this aspect of getting your new bike,

Test run report!
 

Well Peer.... I'd say there's a few people here that would love to hear on your verdict once you get your service on the bike done and take on it's first proper test run!
I know i'll be watching closely

Seems to be the ideal bike. I would even consider one if they had RH gearchange :)

Actually an LC4 640 version was planned but never built, I saw an old KTM Military leaflet and it was in there, next to the LC4 400, exactly the same bike apart from the engine. So I guess the engine would fit.

As for Walkabout's question about registering the bike in the UK, I didn't do that. I registered it in Germany where my parents live, I'm in the process of moving back to Germany anyway (have been living in the UK for 4 years), so I won't take the bike to the UK.
It must be possible to register these bikes in other EU countries, but they don't come with the new EU registration papers, so it's probably not as easy as registering a domestic bike.
The buying process was fairly straightforward, but then I'm German. Basically I had a look at the bikes, chose one, went back home, the dealer got the MOT done, sent me the papers, I registered it, went back to the dealer, paid and rode it home. I heard the dealer speaking English on the phone, so the language shouldn't be a barrier. The only problem is, it's a car dealership and they can't service the bike (maybe if you ask, they will take it to a KTM dealership which apparently is nearby). I had to go to a petrol station first to oil the chain and to fill the tyres, but I'd be careful with long journeys as the bikes haven't been used for quite a while.

Anyway, I'll pay a visit to the local KTM dealer tomorrow to find out about the service cost, I'm too busy at the moment to have a go myself. As soon as the service is done, I will hopefully be able to comment on the ride a bit more.
Glad to see such positive responses btw

Thanks Peer,
That's very clear: ex-military bikes in the UK (typically the HD MT350 and the MT500) are sold in much the same way - no warranties, sold as seen, and best taken away in a van or on a trailer.

Well, there is some sort of limited warranty which is required by law in Germany. It is called "Gewährleistung" and it's for 12 months. It only covers problems with the product which were already there when it was bought, and you have to satisfactorily show that (I think what you have is called the burden of proof). Not as good as a manufacturer's warranty, but better than nothing.
I wasn't too worried about it though as all the service records I've seen of these bikes were complete (all services done by KTM) and the dealer got the MOT done before I paid. The MOT was part of the contract btw and he would have had to paid for any repair costs (you should ask for that as well if you want to buy one, even if you don't need a German MOT, it prepares the bike for your own, national test).

I'm going to buy one of these when my XT660 gives up the ghost, look great for North Africa etc. Its abit of a shame that i didn't see these a year or so back, i would have bought one.

Hi, I thought I give a little update on the bike since I had the chance to ride it a bit. I serviced it myself which took almost two weeks (drowning in work at the moment), but at least it was quite simple.
Just so you know what my comparison is, I normally ride a Bandit 600. The KTM is vibey, comparably loud and a bitch when cold. But once it has warmed up it's fun. Acceleration from 0-120 km/h is much quicker than I expected and getting to the top speed of 130 is no problem, even uphill. It doesn't go any faster downhill, so the top speed is not limited by the power. Power wheelies don't seem to be possible, I have the impression the rev limiter comes in just before the front is about to go up.
I've been offroad for about 5 minutes only (wasn't entirely legal there) and it handled fine on mud and gravel, but then I have to admit that was my first time offroad with a motorbike, so I didn't try any stunts.
The seat is officially designed for touring and I found it comfortable on my longest ride (2 hours). I have been told though else that it's not great for a whole day. Time will tell.
I'm not sure about the range, but it is def no less than 300 km. The weight is fantastically low, my other bike weighs at least 230 kg, so I almost enjoy wheeling the KTM around!
Any specific questions, let me know.

KTM Military
 

They seem very complete bikes , I have enclosed some pictures taken when tested by the Irish Army , also a Image of the Diesel motorcycle from HDT in the States , but Developed in the UK

pg

oh ya never new irish army had looked at them. any idea if these bikes pop up in ireland for sale as i like the military version

not likely
 

They never bought .... used the money to buy new bikes for presedents escort honda D...valle 700's


pg

ah pitty about that as they nice looking bike. philip sorry to change topic but you dont know of any one interested in an enduro bike perhaps?not many irish riders on here and trying flog my own bike off to get large trail bike

What enduro bike have you got
 

and what big trailie are you looking for

pg

there 2-3 going around that would like. one is an xtz 660. also there nice transalp on biker.ie have just came across a ktm 640 lc4 on donedeal so that not bad bike either but be bit pain to try convert over to trail bike

I have some of those plastic bags and they are very good at getting landed on etc. I never actually smashed mine but the seals started to go (overloaded) the internal straps failed (overloaded) and they sprayed their contents everywhere when opened (overloaded)

If you can fit your stuff in they are great, the main drawback comapred with alloy boxes is that they are side opening. Which is a BIG drawback.

I need to start importing some of those diesel bikes, but they are 'still' on a military-only contract. Bloody war.

Military KTM's
 

Hey guys,
Is there any further word on the Military KTM's on reliability, servicing and rideability..? I've had a look on the website and there's a few available and as somebody said .........'just pack, kiss mum on the cheek and go..!'

Thanks

ktm Military LC4
 

just check out the standard ktm 640 LC4 . they have their problems like all machines but the military version will be no worse but maybe a little underpowered

pg

KTM EXC models are a 2 stroke enduro racer (in australia)

KTM vs Japs
 

I have doubts about KTM parts available worldwide...

Wishing to buy a 400 cc. I guess a Yam or Suzuki has passed the tests.
Users says KTM has more vibration ! ?

I don't know if this KTM LC4 Mil is available in TR ?

:confused1:

Export one
 

Samy,
Just buy one in Germany and ride it home: not too easy with the previous information about the servicing and registration, but an export plate would deal with the latter - all part of the adventure!!

:welcome: I have one ... Papers will be sorted this week. Take it to Iceland in August :mchappy:

Hi, funny you should mention a 640 LS-E/Mil I have one. Actually for sale on Ebay at the moment. Great bike with this engine one of three ordered by the MOD and used by the SAS.

Bump.

Any more insight you can share on the military version now that you had it for a while?

Anyone know what the differences are to the stock LC4 400, other than color and panniers?

It does sound like a sweet ride ready to go and there are plenty available for reasonable prices on mobile.de. Might just be the ticket for me for the summer. Although I do wonder why so many are being sold.


Cheers,
Steff

That's because of military procurement systems and policy: without boring you to death, they contract to buy a certain number on a regular basis. Therefore the "old" ones are sold on, no matter what mileage they have done or how hard a life they have had.

As they´re "detuned for reliability", has anyone noted any probs re this, i would find this very interesting...

It might be helpful to know that your local KTM dealer can check the history (done services, updates) for any KTM in the internal net. All he needs is the vehicel id-no.

You will get some useful information before you you start a trip to check or buy a bike.

Services and repairs for the german army KTMs are also done at KTM dealers, so all bike history should be saved.

In the unlikely case that the KTM guy can`t help you feel free to contact
me.:cool4:

Nope. All the power I need. Just back from a trip in Iceland, and the bike is great. My bum did hurt after the 1200km trek to Danmark though.

I don't think it's detuned for reliabillity. 25kw is a standard for a 'small' license, and its better for the 19 year old recruit's health. I did 6500km in three weeks, and it didn't have a single issue. The oil came out nice and clean.

Absolute pro's are the bikes dropabillity, weight, and peace of mind because it isn't the end of the world if you loose it.

The tankbag is a pain when standing on the pegs. You can't lean forward enough to compensate for a headwind or accelerating up hill, which soon becomes tiring.

And for the rest, it's a fun toy...

Hi Robbert
 

do you have any Pics of you and your machine in Iceland

thanks

philgunn

Pics...
 

So do you want pics of me? or the KTM? or me on the KTM?

I was traveling alone, so too many pics of mysels.

Pics of the trip are here:
2008.08 Iceland - a set on Flickr

I haven't added any text yet

pictures
 

I am in South America on my KTM at the moment, if you'd like to see some pics from there, check Meine Homepage - MySouthAmericaLoop
I can give some comments about the bike on terrible roads in Bolivia and altitude, but not now as the battery will die in a few minutes.
Peer

altitude and mirrors
 

Some info on the KTM Military at altitude:
So far I have travelled from Buenos Aires to Sucre (Bolivia) and I have been a little bit above 4000 m without doing any sort of carb rejetting.
On the Salar de Uyuni (around 3700 m I believe) I could still do 110 km/h (without luggage) and I think I could have gone a bit faster, but I felt sorry for the struggling engine and I was short on fuel. Going uphill with luggage at around 4000 m was a different story. Sometimes I was limited to 30-40 km/h, once it was vey steep and I could only do 20 km/h which made me feel a bit pathetic. At the same altitude (not going uphill) I never went faster than 80 or 90, but I didn't try to either (the engine was working hard though). Apart from one time (the 20 km/h uphill) I have never been limited by the power of the bike, but the road conditions. You don't want to go much faster than 30 km/h around tight corners uphill on Bolivian roads, so in my opinion the bike was performing satisfactorily, although it could be better. You have to keep in mind that Bolivian fuel isn't the best and that I changed the fuel mapping so I think the bike will be more powerful with decent fuel at high altitudes.
Furthermore, at 3500-4000 m the fuel consumption went up from 4.2-4.7 l/100 km to 6-6.5 l/100 km (which is also due to bad fuel and fuel mapping).

Another thing I shoud mention about this bike is the mirrors. After about 250 km of really heavily corrugated roads in Bolivia both mirrors broke off at the base (the first after 200 km/h). Maybe I should have taken them off or folded them in, but I expected them to hold. You might want to do that (or replace them with sturdier ones) if you encounter long stretches of terrible roads.

Hope this helps.

Peer

Ktm
 

I've just finished a RTW with a KTM Military (including the Stans, Mongolia, Alaska, Canada).

It performed well but had some problems.

1. Regarding the mirrors (mines also broke but this was due to crushes). I've put a light aluminium bar between them and connected the thing with tape and they were quite sturdy afterwards.

2. Fuel switch to low octane - when using it I could see the engine heating faster and overheating a couple of times even at lower RPM. I'm not sure what the cause of that was.

3. Fuel consumption varied between 6.5l with 2up and full luggage on highway to 3.5l 1up and a bit lighter luggage at 90km/h asphalt. In Mongolia it ate about 4-4.5l/100km. I've noticed that the quality of the fuel has a lot to say on consumption. On 80 octane it was eating 1-1.5l more/100km than 91 octane in similar conditions.

4. Engine is not vibrating more than a 650DR or a 650KLR. In Canada I had an average of 1000km/day and I felt ok (of course that could also be me). The seat is also very confortable.

5. Reliability wise... hmm.... suspension / frame.. excellent. The only thing might be the engine. I STRONGLY recommend changing the oil every 5000km if synthetic and every 2000km if mineral. I had a failure (a broken bearing on the admission rocker that affected the cam as well). In Europe you can get all parts. In Alaska I got the rocker in 48hrs but should have waited 2 weeks for the cam-shaft. But if you are thorough (I wasn't) with the engine mantainance.. you should be fine.

6. The bike "handles" very well the crushes/drops. It is very sturdy. Might also be because of the light weight. Out of my "crushing" experience, that's an excellent point. Crush it and it'll take it.

Some more words and photos on: Dan Honciuc photography

plastic panniers
 

I have crashed a couple of times now and those Hepco&Becker plastic panniers have been really (unexpectedly) good. Only scratches, structurally there is no damage.

how i could get full power out of it? I thought it uses smaller jets etc , but repair manual says that carburetor settings are just the same....42hp would be great...:thumbup1: Keihin fcr 39mm + akropovic + new air intake could do the job?

I don't think it is limited by the 34 hp, the bike stops accelerating at 130 km/h no matter whether you go uphill or downhill. You could write to KTM Sommer in Germany and asl them, they sell the bike and they are very competent and helpful.

answer from sommer:

the LC4 Military is build especially for the military use, so the performance was not so important as the durability. For sure is, that you will never reach 40 HP! There are so many items different and special than a regular LC4. Even the 400cc was sold 1998 the last time! The bike is not limited in the performance, that all it have.

You can use a different jetting to get maybe +2/3 HP, but that's it. OR you need to change the ignition, camshaft, Zylinder... It's may not what you wanted, but that's what the army's wanted and so KTM build it like that.
kind regards
SOMMER KTM

Awesome pictures!!! :thumbup1::thumbup1:

Maybe you can replace the engine with the 640 LC4? They planned a 640 Military and it looked the same, but in the end they didn't produce it. I guess the engine would fit, but I am not sure how compatible it is with the rest of the bike.

maybe a little bit off the topic, but be wear when buying these bikes from german dealers, there are all kinds of haslers around there...:thumbdown:
Check, i mean double check papers + frame numbers before money transfer!
Law suit going on, so i cant say more...

I suppose there are good and bad dealers in every country, it has not much to do with this bike or German dealers in general. Checking papers and frame numbers is always a good idea, wherever you buy.
Maybe you could be a little more specific about the dealer you had problems with, that would be a lot more helpful...

Exactly. They are built to be thrown out of helicopters or off the back of a truck, roll down an embankment and land in a ditch full of water and still run OK with a frame that is only slightly bent. Who really cares about 2-3 HP with a bike of that nature?

i have now keihin FCR 40mm and racing exhaust installed.Accelerator pump makes guite BIG difference compared original parts:thumbup1:...Revs instantly and there is now LOT of low/middle range power what i was looking for.
Keihin is from 2002 ktm 400 , and it work well with 175 main jet when rubber snorkel removed from air intake.

Any idea where to find green color code?
Plastic parts are guite cheap, but tank need some painting...

Paint Code - they probley
 

dont list a paint colour , as the colour is impregnated into the plastic during molding I am in need of some paint for my KTM 350 Enduro Ex sas bike from 1990 see pics here

Picasa Web Albums - Gunner - KTM 350 Endur...

pg

Hey, I think the bike is a pretty dam good deal and I'm seriously thinking of getting a couple for me and my friend for our RTW trip. Could you send me some more pics to tamlanecobbett@yahoo.co.uk
Kind regards
Tam

Here is my ktm with civilian plastics and smaller 13 tank.
Racing exhaust / keihin fcr 39 installed, and "Fun meter"
is 10+, expecially now in winter.
...and yes,it is dam good deal!

I like it. Wouldn't have got a smaller tank though...

" Wouldn't have got a smaller tank though..."

You got that right, bigger 18l tank is better.
I have bought. I use this smaller only now in the winter time and
bigger (black) tank needs new orange decals before install.

I´m going to make valve clearance adjustment , any idea what
is right clearance for intake/exhaust ?

KTM Military bike
 

were these used by the Army in Finland ?
nice looking bike with the Black rims

pg

Finnish army use 400 / 640cc ktm.
I bought mine from Germany, because Finnish
army will use those bikes until they are one piece of s##t....only badly
broken/crashed ones goes to the auctions.

KTM military- are any left?
 

Does any one know where I can buy the KTM LC400 LSE military, in excellent condition?

Depends what you mean by 'excellent' condition. Very rarely you can find new ones, but at the price (>6000 EUR) I'm not sure if they are a good deal. BUT you can find some in excellent mechanical condition, with some mileage and scratches on the tank, which are great value.

Check this site: mil Suchergebnisse: Motorräder bei mobile.de

You will have to check back every couple of weeks or so. Most places that sell them are large vehicle dealers that buy them in containers of 20. They sell them off and when they're gone they might get another container. So depending on your timing you get to pick a nice one or be stuffed with left-overs. Or you could try to buy from a civilian owner, hoping that pre-selection has already occurred ;-) The merchant in Neumuenster had pretty shitty ones last time I looked (car merchant, not interested in keeping them in good condition). The one in Niebuell (currently offering 7 KTM mils) however is a bike dealer, so chances are that they've been given a service before you buy, but I haven't been there myself.

But one very important note for anyone interested in this bike:

I know two people on this site who had engine failures with this bike. The rocker arm rollers are a weak spot, especially the small bearing. Make sure you check it before your trip, or at least when you are approaching 25.000km, and replace it asap if it is showing signs of wear. I had mine checked before departure, and it needed a new bearing. No big deal, but if you miss this chance and the bearing goes, the cam bearings and cam shaft will follow, and that will be costly. Apart from that, take maintenance seriously (change oil and lube air filter every 5000km, check valve lash (tell-tale of rocker arm problem at least every 5000km). If you do that, then you have gotten yourself an extremely sweet and robust ride for very little money (starting from 2000 EUR if you are lucky). The WP suspension on this little machine is absolutely awesome!

In addition, tyres, chains, etc last an absolute eternity on this bike. Things that I would consider essential to modify or to take on a trip are as follows:

- add neoprene fork gaiters (~25 EUR) if you are going to dusty places (applies to any USD fork)
- put on a hand adjustable fuel mixture screw (~20 EUR) if you are going to go to high altitudes.
- take a bottle of magura blood (hydraulic clutch fluid) (~5 EUR)!!!
- take a carb needle jet and jet needle as spare (~20 EUR)
- take some oil filters, they can be hard to find
- consider converting to or adding HIDs, the standard head-lamp is pretty shitty.

Other than that, it's a great overlander right off the shelve! More infos/experiences PM me if you like or have a look at Moto Eurasia

Oh and one more thing: not sure if it's true, but I am told that KTM Mils are used for three purposes by the German military: 1) Escort vehicle - high milage, but usually in very good condition; 2) driving school - can be good, can be bad; if you are lucky then excellent mechanical condition, low milage but enough scratches on the tank to bring the price down; 3) physical exercise for members of the special forces (KSK) - you really don't want one of these! If you have frame numbers of potential bikes, then any KTM dealer can tell you where the bike was based, what it was used for and what maintenance/repairs have been done on it. The army has a maintenance contract with KTM, so it's all in the KTM database.

Good luck :-)

One more thing just came to my mind: originally the bike has two ignition settings: one that will only power the ignition and nothing else (no head light, no horn, no indicators, no dash light, not even the neutral lamp has power), and a second one that works as expected (head light always on). When you buy the bike, the "cloak" setting has most likely been disabled to make the bike road legal, but it's well worth converting it back. It makes kick-starting the bike a lot easier, and it enables you to run the bike without battery :thumbup1:

You'll have to check how they disabled it, but most likely you'll find an orange cable behind the lamp mask that has been disconnected. Put it back where it belongs, and you got another very cool feature on the bike.

Edit: here's a pic of the cable that had been disconnected on my bike, see red arrow:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1...gnition.th.jpg

Sirakor, Thank you for your reply and informative information, you have been a great help and I am gping to be looking into it. Right now I am in a market for a adventure/enduro 400cc- 800cc range for a trip from Vancouver Canada to the most Southern Tip of South America. There are too bikes many I want...

Best regards
rudy

Does anybody have any ideas where I could get one in Austria?

OR anybody know how tough it is to buy a bike in Germany & register it in Austria?

also, what is the seat height on one of theses bad boys?

No idea where to buy these in Austria, I guess there must be an Austrian website for used motorbikes.
There are only a few for sale in Germany at the moment, one close to the Austrian border, in Traunreut or something (check on mobile.de). I wouldn't pay the asking price though, mine (same year of 1st registration) was cheaper two years ago and had only half the mileage. Registration in Austria shouldn't be a problem since both countries are in the EU, but you'll better check with the authorities. I registered a British bike in Germany and it was very straightforward (apart from having to change the headlight), no duty or tax.
Peer

PS: Not sure about seat hight in mm right now, but I'm 1,80 and reach the ground with both feet easily. With luggage I can even bend my knees a bit and have both feet fully and firmly on the ground.

Hey guys,


Roughly how much would it cost to have someone change out the the rocker arm rollers and the small bearing?

(if you haven't noticed I am looking into buying one :mchappy:)

i had a similar bike years ago, a ktm lc4 lse, s reg it was. practicly the same as a 640 but with a sleaved down barrel i think. the low seat came from shorter travel suspension and using 17 and 19 in wheels. it got used a lot for trail riding but was a bit heavy. sold it to a girl who rode from london to capetown on it and she had no props apart from a fork seal. i loved it and always wished id kept it as an overland bike....

Since it hasn't been mentioned so far: the KTM Mil has a 21" front, and a 18" rear.

When i was in the Army we had the old bomadears then went to the MT350 then 500s all had a Rotax engine re badged to Harley Davidson then I think back to Rotax.
The only problem with them was how high as im only 5ft 5!

How high is the KTM?

I would be very intresetd have looked @ ex brit MOD bikes, after using them for yeas but can tell you they are a pig to start the MOD had the Starter removed??
have a look at these the best feture on the Amy bikes is the SA 80 holder on the front forks good for the sunday paper,
If any one is thinking of getting 1 of the MT make sure the cases are at the back NOT the front or you will have to hunt for the frames for them,
In my reg we did a few modifercations & had 2 jerrry cans at the rear & cases @ the front SA80 case was removed and mounted on the handle bars, will look & see if I can find any photos of me on one of ours on Exercise, or when i was in Iraqc

Brit Army bike owners Club MT Riders Club
MOD & EX direct sales
Welcome to MOD Sales Online - Military Vehicles for Sale - Ex MOD Land Rovers for Sale Force MotorCycles

LC4 400 seat height
 

I was really taken by the mil spec KTMs in this thread when I was looking for a winter hack/trail bike and ended up with a standard orange LC4 400 from 2000 and just 6000 miles (off ebay!).

I'm 5'7" with a 30" inside leg and struggle with some of the other trail bikes out there. I have a 950SM which although lower than the LC4 is harder to manage as the suspension is firmer and the seat wider. My LC4 on 21/18" wheels is about 890mm tall but as it compresses so much when I get one (chunky) leg over it, I've not had a problem.

I have a set of Pirelli knobbly tyres, a bash guard and lower gearing to put on this weekend and then I'm going to give this trail riding thing a go!

Seat:

cheapest option: get a used sheep skin baby cart liner off ebay (~5 EUR). Worked for me all the way to Nepal. Alternatively take the seat to any upholsterer to redo the cushion. Gel inserts are great for continental climates, but can become a bit stiff below freezing and a little toasty in the desert ...

Gauges:

- Overheating is not a problem on the KTM Mil. If you intend to use it only for stop and go in very hot cities, fit a second fan and put it on a switch.
- Empty gas: errr... hardly any bike has a fuel gauge, let alone an accurate one, especially in this price class and on an enduro. But you have the reserve and the trip counter which you zero when you refuel, so you know exactly how much mileage you have left. Easy and the same as any other enduro.
- Battery/alternator: even rarer to find on a production bike than the fuel gauge and of little practical use as the battery will be dead by then ... take a cheapo multimeter instead if you must

If you want gauges for the above, and want it OEM, then swap the bike for a GS or a big adventure :P Alternatively, put on a rallye computer with the required sensors, but with the whole shebang we're talking 300-500 EUR. I am just converting my tach to a rallye computer (SIxO Homepage), but not because it's really neccessary, but because I'm back home and fiddling with the bike eases the desire to set off again. (plus the analogue tach cable broke again, and I'm fed up with it ...). The Touratech IMO (as found on the KTM Adventures) are another, more expensive, option (if you want comparable features). For just a digital tach that fits the original housing, try the MAE-Tach of the SXC/EXC models, but it won't give you the gauges you are after.

Headlight: stick in a HID conversion kit. Not road legal in most western european countries (UK is a different story), but who cares once you have departed ... Alternatively, rob a bank and spend 350 EUR on the Touratech one. Don't use higher wattage bulbs - stuff will smolder and melt, and the stator is already weak as it is.

I'm really interested in one of these, they seem to be only available in Germany? I've checked out the links but only one of them seems to have these bikes available, and they seem to be from private individuals rather than a shop--anybody know a reputable dealer I could deal with?

Check this link: mil Suchergebnisse: Motorräder bei mobile.de

Two merchants (Hagenow and Niebüll) currently offering. The one in Niebüll usually has a lot of bikes to choose from, despite the fact that he puts up only one ad. He also sells conversions with 640 engines swapped in at a higher price (less reliable but a lot more power). As I wrote before, these guys are KTM dealers and usually give the bike a full service, justifiying a slightly higher price.

The "new" one for nearly 6k is overpriced, but the other two seem to be in very good condition if the description is true (pics look good too).

Thanks Sirakor, very helpful, I am checking these out now.

How can you tell that the one for 6k is new? Also, what does the HU and AU mean in the description?

Well, it isn't new, but the seller claims to have bought the bike new, and that it has only 930 real km on the clock. In principle the price is not soo bad, as brand new ones go for around 6-6.5k EUR, but if you take it RTW it'll end up with plenty of scratches anyways, so why waste more money than neccessary. In contrast, all the other bikes are ex-service bikes that suffered more or less abuse through conscripts and alike.

HU = Hauptuntersuchung, colloquially known as TÜV, which is the German equivalent of the british MOT, ie. a road safety/road worthiness test. Required every two years and more stringent than many other countries, BUT it only concerns safety (e.g. brakes etc) and various other crap such as lights and indicators conforming to endless §§§. It has nothing to do with reliability, and little with good mechanical condition, although of course a bike in horrid condition won't pass.

AU = Abgasuntersuchung, ie whether the bike conforms to emission restrictions etc, also required every two years. Usually never an issue with OEM exhausts.

unfortunately both of the dealers seem to have sold theirs (called them this morning). will have to keep my eyes open...

Well some how I scored a "Bediengungsanleitung2004"... Which I am pretty sure translates into Service Manual... but it is in German...

Here are a few more spec's on the bike that I don't think have been mentioned up to now:

Seat Height: 890mm
Dry Weight: 148 kg
Max speed: 130km/h
Clearance: 290mm
Front suspension: 220mm
Rear suspension: 240mm
Max total load (including rider): 232 kg

and the unexpected thing they say is max Load for the
big top case: 5 kg
right side case: 10 kg
left side case: 10kg

I would have thought I could have piled more into that top case...

Also if anyone has the Service Manual in ENGLISH... CAN YOU PLEASE PM me!? or if you know how I can find the English version.

Also what is the difference in thes Military bikes 2004 v. 2006?

I had another few nice rides this weekend... question tho for you KTM owners... does a KTM engine have a metalic rattle / crackle when you let off on the gas?

I know Ducati's have this and is doesn't mean anything is wrong... but I thought I should ask instead of ignoring the sound.

When I am at idle, accelerating or maintaining speed the sound isn't there... but letting off the gas or decelerating it is.

ideas?

Just out of curiosity ... what is a BMW 650 GS military model?

How many have been built and how different is it to standard?

Not sure whether they really produced a proper military model, my guess would be that they painted one green and expected to win the bid because it is a BMW and the Germany army would buy a bike produced in Germany.

To complete the irony word has it that the Austrian army went for the F650 GS ... :D

But I've never seen one, nor their specs

hahahah ... mind you, I bet the German Army contract was bigger :cool4:

Peer is more ore less right, only changes to the standard model are a engine crash-bar, panniers, black color AND an additional headlight on top of the front fender!! :eek3:
This model already competed against the KTM in 2001, but was -back then- only purchased by the Danish and Swiss army (seemingly).

[URL="http://engele.net/pageID_9050373.html"]

Maybe nowadays the 2-cylinder GS is in discussion, does anybody knows more details???

Greets
Jörn ---still a KTM freak---

I like it, at least as a more road biased ride. Probably better for Western Europe than the KTM, although I'd prefer the latter on anything but tarmac. The additional light is the coolest one I'ver seen! Can you buy these bikes anywhere? If so, maybe you should start a thread on it in the Beemer section. Would still keep my KTM though...

....Swiss Army ordered the F 650 GS also....

:oops2:

I want that extra light on my KTM! That's one of the biggest griefs of the little machine. Been trying to come up with a good solution for quite some time now ...

By the way, I finally got around to taking a pic of the ignition cable that activates the ignition position I (more info read above Post#66). Since I got quite a few messages about it, I'll post it here. On my bike the orange cable in the pic below (see red arrow), had been disconnected to disable the 'cloaky' ignition setting.

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1...gnition.th.jpg

I'm still looking at getting one of these, a couple of questions:

1) what is the typical fuel range of these given the tank size and mileage? Someone posted that it "should be" 300 km, which seemed a bit short to me--can anyone confirm?

2) Also, I'm confused about the seat height--Popex reports that the seat height is 890mm, which is taller than a R1200GS, but someone else said that they are 180cm and they can easily flat-foot the bike. I am about 190cm and would prefer the bike to be as tall as possible, but just trying to understand...

I typically refuel somewhere between 350 and 390 km. In rainy Romenia I wend over 500km (around 3.5l/100km) on a tank. So depending on the conditions and riding style, you're looking at 3-500 km on a tank.

Fuel range is definitely > 300km and might get close to almost 400km, but it obviously can vary a lot with luggage, weight, terrain, riding style etc Also the carb needs servicing every now and then, otherwise consumption can become quite high. The needle jet and jet needle have been reported to wearing out easily causing loss of power and increase in consumption, but it's a small and cheap spare to take.

One more thing about fuel: the tank has a bit of a silly shape which means it's difficult to get all the fuel out of it for two reasons: the front is lower than where the petcock is, and you have only one petcock. It's not a big issue, but should you run out, then shaking the bike or laying it on the left side, go get all the fuel from the right tank half to the left, will give you another 30-50km or so. Don't ask me how I know. :innocent:

Re the stats that popex posted, I'm not sure if they are correct. E.g. the max load looks far too low, but I don't have the numbers here right now. Will check back when I get a chance.

[quote=motoreiter;288333]I'm still looking at getting one of these, a couple of questions:

1) what is the typical fuel range of these given the tank size and mileage? Someone posted that it "should be" 300 km, which seemed a bit short to me--can anyone confirm?

I've seen 400km out of that tank on my 640 riding gently, never less than 320 (except when my carb was worn out), usually about 360. The 400 should do better.

Good point above on the carb, funky fuel use on any bike equipped with a BST carb is always a good reason to clean & inspect the carb for wear.

Cheers
Clint

Guys I am still a bit concerned about this metalic rattle / crackle when I let off on the gas? Is that normal?

When I am at idle, accelerating or maintaining speed the sound isn't there... but letting off the gas or decelerating it is.

ideas?

Also regarding seat height. I am 5'8" & with my boots on at the lowest point on the seat I can just barely flat foot it.

Those numbers where right out of the manual... granted it was in German so I may not have totally gotten it.. but I am pretty sure...

EDIT - the metalic rattle / crackle was simply too long of a chain.

No idea what that sound could be, I don't think I hear any particular noises when slowing down (only misfiring with crappy Bolivian fuel...). I suggest you ask at www.KTM-LC4.net, Alles rund um die KTM LC4, Forum, Tuning, Schraubertipps which is an amazing LC4 forum with many very knowledgeable KTM riders. It is mainly about fixing stuff, less about bike polishing. It is in German, but I'm sure some people there do speak English. If you need help translating, let me know.

About the seat height: Either gain some weight or put some luggage on, then you'll be fine ;-)

bad news guys...

Problem no. 1 in less than 1 month of owning... :taz:

As I increased RPM's (in or out of gear) the engine made an unhealthy almost pop-ing noise... this was less than 5min after starting the bike.

less than 10 min later the large coolant hose (left foot) pop-ed off the engine block and sprayed my radiator fluid all over the street... walk the bike home...

Naturally there is not a single KTM dealer that sells parts open on a Saturday... typical Austria :nono:

Anybody else have this problem or have an idea what it could be? :(

EDIT - in the end the problem was just a bad clamp holding the hose in place.

Speaking from my limited experience, I don't think the coolant hose coming off has anything to do with anything. If your bike overheats for whatever reason, the radiator will boil over at the top. Hoses can come off (the same hose as you mentioned has come off on my KTM Mil too), but this is usually because it wasn't tight enough in the first place. You should routinely check bolts/fasteners etc on the KTM (or any other single cyl bike for that matter), I've had a lot of things come lose over time due to the vibrations. Also, the rubber tubings tend to age and fray at the ends, something to watch out for. If you lose coolant, you can replace it with water, no need to walk the bike home. Not distilled water may be corrosive, but only if you leave it in there for months or more, and antifreeze shouldn't be an issue on the way home.

Now the rattling/clonking/popping sounds are naturally impossible to diagnose via the web. The best thing to do would be finding an experienced KTM owner (any LC4 will do) in your area and ask them. Otherwise maybe try recording a video with good sound, and try to identify *where* the sound is originating, otherwise it's impossible to say anything about it. Once you have a vid and know where it is coming from, try asking on advrider.com. In my experience it is a much better place to ask mechanical questions than the HUBB. The HUBB is more for travel related things imho. Good luck.

I read from Sirakor's post that the tell tale signs of bad rocker arm rollers are checked by checking valve lash... How does one check "valve lash"?

Also how does the bike act differently if the rocker arm rollers are going bad?