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-   -   Kitting up a KTM 690 Enduro R + switching to Carbs (http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/ktm-tech/kitting-up-ktm-690-enduro-48071)

Damien022 28 Jan 2010 13:18

Kitting up a KTM 690 Enduro R + switching to Carbs
 
Hi Everybody

First post on this great website, and looking for some good ideas on what to add to the already very nice KTM 690 Enduro R

The idea is to start with a short trip to Morocco and maybe Algeria, to see how it goes, and plan for a longer south America journey some time in the future

I am a keen enduro rider (the sunday toy is a 250 EXC-F), and I would like the bike to remain as proficient as possible offroad, while being able to carry your home with you.

The bike comes with the 14l aqualine tank, which is good, but needs some more work to it to get it ready
I have been talking to Swampy Marsh who will be taking care of preparing the bike, but any good ideas are welcome.

Swampy told me it was possible to swap the FI for a carb on the 690. It should make the bike more reliable and easier to fix, but would lose the smoothness and fuel efficiency of FI
any views on that?


also what are the good mods you would suggest I did?

Thank you in advance

Damien

sanderd 28 Jan 2010 17:54

Hi,

I would check the internet for FI failures on your specific bike first. Why change FI? Do you have problems with it? What do you gain?

My advise is to leave the engine stock, if you need to go to a KTM dealer somewhere on this planet they know what it is. Non stock gives problems.

There's this religion thing going on about carb vs. FI. in the last 19 months i've never met any biker with FI failure, but did have carb issues myself, and met others too. Wish i had FI, adjusts for altitude, little if no wear and tear, no maintenance.

Carb. tuning may have been easy in the old straight forward Bing days, but with the current hi tech carbs, man, they are complex!

IMHO if you are not capable of fixing a carb, there's no difference if you have FI or carb. both are black boxes to you.

Do put an extra external inline filter and change regularly.

my 2 cents...

sanderd

colebatch 31 Jan 2010 10:39

I am with Sander ... Why would you NOT want FI? especially if you are going to South America and the 5000 metre passes in the Andes.

To say using carbs is more reliable is fantasy. I have never heard of a bike adventure being called off because of a broken FI system. On the other hand, carbs are constantly gunking up, out of tune, braking down, broken floats, broken needles, carb icing etc etc.

If somehow, your injector gets clogged, its a very very simple thing to clean it out. Its a very simple device with almost no moving parts.

I personally seek out bikes with EFI for touring, because for a multitude of reasons FI is superior. One of which is they are 20 times more reliable and require zero maintenance (apart from changing fuel filter as required).

There are a lot of things that can and do go wrong with bikes electronically, but EFI is not one of them. I said it in another post once ... but FI has been around since world war 2, so its not exactly new fangled technology.

Diesel engines, simple and reliable beasts, all use fuel injection. My petrol V8 car is 17 years old, has 8 fuel injectors, has done 160,000 miles and not a single fuel injector has needed to be touched in 17 years (nor my ECU), and I don't consider my car to be abnormally good. If I had a V8 with carbs, there is no way the fuel system could have remained completely untouched in 160,000 miles, yet its perfectly normal for FI.

On a typical adventure motorcycle, you will be replacing cranks and valves long before you even have to think about the FI system.

... having said that, you need to remember its a KTM, so anything is possible!

cjdad76 2 Feb 2010 10:20

I don't know about everyone else with a 690, but the first thing I had done was get the seat re-upholstered! Sitting on that 3 inch wide plank of wood that comes as standard just wasn't bearable for anything over 2 or 3 hrs.

Only cost me £60 by a local coach trimmer and it mad the world of difference.

Me and 2 mates are heading to Morocco at the end of March - what's your timescale and what route are you planning?
Chris

Damien022 4 Feb 2010 11:48

Thank you for your comments.
I will stick with FI now :)

It is just that I would know how to sort out fueling issues in most case with a carb, while I am much less confident about being able to diagnosed any FI problem

But your points are well taken, I will trust austrian engineering!

Mony 63 5 Feb 2010 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien022 (Post 274988)
Thank you for your comments.
I will stick with FI now :)



I will trust austrian engineering!


Let say we have trust to "Keihin FI"...:thumbup1:


Regards,

Simon

edteamslr 5 Feb 2010 17:00

Phew, sense has prevailed.:thumbup1:

On a similar note people do complain about 'snatchy' throttle response, especially at low speed in 'low' gears on A LOT of FI bikes not just KTMs (and this is still happening after 10years of mainstream FI bikes). As we have already established going back to carbs is not the answer but can anyone add to this list of possible solutions:

1: Adjust the engine idle speed UP, if possible.
2: Change the throttle cam to one with a 'softer' profile, if possible.
3: Change the fuel mapping switch, if an option.
4: Add dynojet kit (powercommander) with custom map.

Anything else?

Mickey D 5 Feb 2010 18:58

As all the previous advice indicates, F.I. is a plus, not a negative.
So Damien, you are an enduro rider, but do you have much experience with long distance bike travel into "3rd world" situations?

I think your Maroc warm up ride is a wise move. This will allow you to figure out solutions to the things that don't work out, that break, fall off or whatever.

IMHO, you're biggest probs with the 690 will be carrying luggage, fuel and water. I've ridden the 690 off road, great bike! But no real sub frame? 14 liters of fuel is more than the stock tank capacity, no?

14 ltrs. should allow about 140-150 miles? Not bad, but for Africa you might want a bit more? F.I. gives terrific fuel economy, a big plus over carbs. But if you go WFO all the time or if you're running a Race Map in the F.I. ECU, then economy can suffer. I'd go with a very conservative "lean" map for travel. Maybe KTM can help with this.

Packing light will be important, but honestly, in very rough going carrying luggage can cause probs. Things break, come loose, catch fire and are lost. Not many have done RTW type travel on the 690, at least I haven't heard much about it.

Speaking of going light, you don't want to end up like these German guys :eek3:

http://patricksphotos.smugmug.com/ph...14_ySRN3-L.jpg

http://patricksphotos.smugmug.com/ph...37_oKyg5-L.jpg

Mickey D 5 Feb 2010 20:43

For more info than you'll ever need about the 690 KTM, go here over on ADV:

KTM 690 Adv/Rally/Enduro/Duke/SM (merged) threadfest... - ADVrider

700 pages of KTM religion.

colebatch 6 Feb 2010 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey D (Post 275233)
IMHO, you're biggest probs with the 690 will be carrying luggage, fuel and water. I've ridden the 690 off road, great bike! But no real sub frame? 14 liters of fuel is more than the stock tank capacity, no?

14 ltrs. should allow about 140-150 miles? Not bad, but for Africa you might want a bit more?

I know KTM offer hard boxes with it ... and have a rack ...
http://www.ktmteamwest.com/oxid/out/...2020000_p2.jpg
if the fuel tank is tough enough to take a rack and hard boxes, I am sure its fine to take saddle bags

The 14 litre Safari fuel tank is in addition to the 12 litre under seat model ... so all up its about 26 litres. That should be fine.

I would be interested to have closer look at what can be done to turn one of these into a touring machine.

And yes, nobody packs like the Germans! In all my years I have never seen a German touring "light" ... for that matter, I have never seen one touring without metal boxes! It just seems to be the German "technique" when it comes to riding around the world. There seems to be no debate in Germany about how this is done ... its (1) get largest possible bike (2) stick metal boxes on it (3) load it up until you simply cant add anything else. (4) find a way to strap a another 10kgs in spare tyres to the rig and (5) Then when you have done all that, you can consider yourself "prepared". So now you can go!

sanderd 6 Feb 2010 13:52

another not-so-light example of a guy i met... :eek3:
http://sanderd.smugmug.com/Alaska2Us...48_yVGwA-S.jpg

oh, and i'm very curious how your 690 holds up on long trips. good luck with your try-out trip!

colebatch 12 Feb 2010 11:20

690 Fi
 
I have heard of a few people that have had probs with the FI on 690 engine, but all the problems I have heard of were with 08 models.

What year is yours?

elrockers 13 Jun 2011 20:57

damien,

would you care to give us an update? did you take the 690 to morocco? any reliability issues?

thanks,

elrockers

Steve Pickford 13 Jun 2011 23:30

My 690....
 
Returned recently from a weeks trailriding with full luggage in the Dordogne region of France.

I've completed the following mods to the bike, most of which were done to resolve known issues:

Rally Raid 'bar riders with damper mount as I had a Scott's damper left over from my Super Enduro, the RR risers are also stronger than the KTM items.

RR upgraded upper and lower tank mounts, stock parts prone to breaking.

RR billet brake pedal, sprocket cover and 640 side mounted toolbox.

RR low temp fan switch, had it for a while but didn't fit until I returned from France. The fan on my mates 690 with the low temp switch was kicking in a lot earlier than mine (85 v 105 degrees).

KTM aluminium bashplate that's been extended rearwards to protect the rear master cylinder.

http://possu.smugmug.com/Motorcycles..._f4XYP-L-1.jpg

http://possu.smugmug.com/Motorcycles...09_hPUnq-L.jpg

TT stainless racks, best on the market IMO and I'm not generally a TT fan. Made some brackets for the Wolfman panniers to fasten to, had a friend TiG weld them in place. Also added mounts for a Tool Tube.

http://possu.smugmug.com/Motorcycles.../IMG0245-L.jpg

http://possu.smugmug.com/Motorcycles.../IMG0246-L.jpg

Ti Akra, came with the bike, looses some weight without being too noisy but mnor importantly, gets rid of the stock stainless cat equipped silencer which runs very hot.

Giant Loop tankbag, modified to suit plus an Airhawk for the road mileage to the Dordogne and back.

http://possu.smugmug.com/Motorcycles.../IMG0259-L.jpg

Future mods include the possibility of fitting an RR rad guard and a screen from a 690 SM and the RR additional fuel tanks although cruising through France at 65mph swa the bike return 60+mpg. Just checked the valves for the first time at 6,500 miles, didn't need changing.

PocketHead 14 Jun 2011 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Pickford (Post 338982)
Returned recently from a weeks trailriding with full luggage in the Dordogne region of France.

I've completed the following mods to the bike, most of which were done to resolve known issues:

Rally Raid 'bar riders with damper mount as I had a Scott's damper left over from my Super Enduro, the RR risers are also stronger than the KTM items.

RR upgraded upper and lower tank mounts, stock parts prone to breaking.

RR billet brake pedal, sprocket cover and 640 side mounted toolbox.

RR low temp fan switch, had it for a while but didn't fit until I returned from France. The fan on my mates 690 with the low temp switch was kicking in a lot earlier than mine (85 v 105 degrees).

KTM aluminium bashplate that's been extended rearwards to protect the rear master cylinder.

http://possu.smugmug.com/Motorcycles..._f4XYP-L-1.jpg

http://possu.smugmug.com/Motorcycles...09_hPUnq-L.jpg

TT stainless racks, best on the market IMO and I'm not generally a TT fan. Made some brackets for the Wolfman panniers to fasten to, had a friend TiG weld them in place. Also added mounts for a Tool Tube.

http://possu.smugmug.com/Motorcycles.../IMG0245-L.jpg

http://possu.smugmug.com/Motorcycles.../IMG0246-L.jpg

Ti Akra, came with the bike, looses some weight without being too noisy but mnor importantly, gets rid of the stock stainless cat equipped silencer which runs very hot.

Giant Loop tankbag, modified to suit plus an Airhawk for the road mileage to the Dordogne and back.

http://possu.smugmug.com/Motorcycles.../IMG0259-L.jpg

Future mods include the possibility of fitting an RR rad guard and a screen from a 690 SM and the RR additional fuel tanks although cruising through France at 65mph swa the bike return 60+mpg. Just checked the valves for the first time at 6,500 miles, didn't need changing.

Wow, that is a really nice setup!


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