Problem KLR
 

Okay all you "Sabelotodos" out there. All replies,(even patronising), received with gratitude,,,

Kouritsimou, my poor, abused burrito did not take too kindly to being locked in a Colombian shed for 3 months with no prep. work whatsoever. I returned full of beans with an equally full bag of spare parts. First she wouldn't turn over, so I bought a new battery. Then, the only way I could get her to fire up, was by blocking the air entry to allow a richer mix, but she would die again and then revive when I persisted and got her really hot,(Ai, las chicas!!). At first I was sure it was a carb. problem, but after thorough cleaning nothing had changed. I brought in some local boys who are great at basic stuff, but they have no diagnostics here, and it's all guess work. Everyone then thought it was the carb, later the electrics and now we've settled on lack of compression. Basically, we can phaff about enough to get her going, warm her up, but on letting out the clutch, there's no, (read sometimes), power. On stripping the pot down, there does seem to be quite a bit of wear, (sunlight through the piston rings), Is this enough to cause such a massive change in response, given that she's done nothing for 3 months?

Ta v.much

Hi there Stretcher M,
First, I have to say that I don't know about KLRs, never owned one etc.
But, I have to agree that not much can have changed over 3 months, so, if it was my bike, I would start with all of the simple things - loose connections for instance. anything chewed away by little furry things?, and that type of thing - has anyone been able to fiddle with it while it has been stored?

This link might give you help and ideas:

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...al-stuff-27640

I found it recently when I was doing loads of work on my bike,

Good luck,

Dave

ps You don't say much about the history of the bike - mileage, model/year, that type of thing - folk who do know about the KLR will ask this!

Can you double check your float valve in the carb?
 

Hi Stretcher Monkey!

I had a similar problem with my KLR after it was stored for a couple of weeks.
The bike had no power. I had to rev it a lot to keep it running and as soon as I would try to ride in first gear it, the engine would die.

At first I thought that I had clean my carb correctly. I could not see any dirt in there. But I was missing one small thing: The float valve was stuck!!!

I would suggest you to double check if your float valve work properly!

Hope this help,
Patrick

Patrick beat me to it, I had an duke 750ss that had been standing for a while and turned out to be a sticking float.

Could be worth a check?.


Roy:thumbup1:

Sticky float valve
 

Ah, the float valve - mine sticks when the carb has been drained by running it dry with the tap shut off and the engine running - something that I used to do regularly, but no longer. Therefore it was sticking in the open position so fuel pours out of the overflow.

Gentle tapping on the side of the float bowl gets it to work OK and I do this with the rubber handle of a hammer - this gives a bit of "weight" to the tapping without damaging the casting of the carb.

Dave

Same thing happened to me. Stuck float valve.
Brian

Thanks Peeps!
 

Thankyou for your input, with not one patronising comment in sight. Where are you Mollydog!

This poor bike; 3 years,(80,000 klicks), on the road between Argentina and Guatemala, and then back to Colombia, bits around and inbetween. She´s been on boats on the Amazon, sailboats on the Caribbean, 100's of kilometres of deep sand, IN the sea,(never been jet-washed), crossed many rivers and been horizontal in the same. She's been crashed twice, (not by me, I hasten to add). She's 3 years old but looks 30

I have had problems with the float valve myself, in the past, and naturally that was my first impression. Unfortunately from what you lot say it's also now my last impression. I can't believe that anything has changed that much in 3 months - No furry things, no meddling hands. Problem is, the old girl is in about 200 bits. I will get the piston and pot checked out anyway, as we have got this far. We have had this carb. in bits countless times, so I doubt a hammer will work at this point, anyway. I am returning to Blighty for a couple of months soon, so I may as well take said carb. with me. Anyone able to recommend any fine British carburretor engineers?

Thanks again for you positive input. You may have saved me some time and money.

[quote= On stripping the pot down, there does seem to be quite a bit of wear, (sunlight through the piston rings), Is this enough to cause such a massive change in response, [/quote]

"pot" means cylinder?
piston rings are measured at the gap...I don't know the specific KLR specs, but "ballpark" you should have about .010"
the rings will be shaped so the explosion forces the rings against the cylinder walls, and they have to float.

...what can happen when sitting is the rings stick in the carbon-cruddy grooves of the piston and don't expand against the cylinder walls.

do a quick compression check...you want to see 125psi+...100psi will run, but not impressive....if compression is low, it can be crud under a valve seat, stuck rings, or blown head gasket because young Pedro had your bike at the hill-climbs in your absence...

it sounds like it's getting spark but not gas...another thing to look for is dry rot in the intake boot causing a vacuum leak or something silly.

I would look for a mud dobber nest blocking a vent/drain tube, or float valve stuck.if you have spark and compression, I would suspect insects or mice doing what they do best...and your bike is just another opportunity.

The fuel petcock on the KLR won't let fuel flow from the tank unless there is a vacuum signal from the engine. If the valve (I think it is actually a rubber diaphram) is stuck or broken, it could be your problem. Could also be a plugged hose from the intake on the engine to the petcock. Or the hose could have fallen off at the petcock, mine has. Easy stuff to check.

Thanks again fellas
 

On inspecting the rings, there is about 0.25 gap at the widest point which is excessive but not that bad. Not cruddy at all. She was running fine on the day I left her, and no signs at that time. Fuel is pumping fine to carb. Now I am convinced that the float valve is the problem, but will use the opportunity to put her back together better than before. She deserves that. I'll let you know what happens.

Chao

Hi again,
Not sure if you have a manual for your bike model/year but it sounds like you know the bike well if you have taken it to bits so completely. I hope it does turn out to be something simple but 80000 km sounds like a potential case for some more major work - rebore or whatever, hence you need the manual for the tolerance values. As other posts, this sort of thing does not go wrong overnight, usually - got to be something simple therefore!!!:rolleyes2:

The link that I included in my earlier post has lots of info about servicing carbs - if you have cleaned them already then you know them as well as anybody else I would say. It's also got information about what to expect for compression values.

If you are heading back to the UK then your local Yellow pages may be the best way of finding professional help,

Cheers,

Dave

It wasn´t me who dismantled the bike so completely, but my moto monkeys. Methinks they are better at dismantling than reassembling, but we shall see. In the UK I would never think of hovering over my mechanic as they worked, but in Latin America it is essential that you supervise and question every single step.

Standing 3 months - what's changed?
 

Back to basics: As Mollydog asks, what has changed since the bike was last running?
The more you can talk it through on here/with your moto monkeys the more chance of identifying what the problem is.

When you bring that carb back to the UK, maybe you can bring the whole engine, excess baggage permitting??!

Let us know how you are getting on with putting it all back together; IMHO, not much can have changed in your 3 months gap - lots of people leave bikes standing for that time with no prep and a bit of TLC brings them back to life. I realise that you have devoted some TLC already but it just has to be something "basic".

Cheers,

Dave

In reply to some of the posts above:

To check the compession of a KLR you will have to disengage the automatic decompresor or your pessure gauge will always show you too little compression to run healthily.
This is done by taking out the exhaust cam and blocking the mechanism with some thin binding wire. Make sure that you understand how the decompressor works and that your wire contraption does not interfere with anything when turning.
BTW: The decompressor is failsafe and is not a possible cause of the problem.

Patrick: The doohickey sits on the balancer chain idler shaft and has absolutely nothing to do with the timing chain. I have never heard of timing chain tensioners on KLR's giving trouble and I don't think that after 80000km the timing chain is stretched enough to exceed the range of the tensioner and jump.
If the balancer chain jumps by a couple of teeth due to a broken doo and idler spring the fwd balancer will make contact with the crankshaft web. Bang! I am not sure if (read: don't think that) the balancer chain can jump without doing externally visible damage to the alternator covers.

In reply to the original question:
Did you check your valve clearances? Very tight valves can cost you compression and cause starting problems and cause the valve and seat to burn (primarily exhaust burns, intake often survives a while without serious damage.

I would start to look for the problem in the carburettor. Check for dirt in the slow jet as well as in the main jet mixing tube's crossbores and especially in the idle mix adjustment screw (that's the one under the f...ing anti tamper plug) Your description of not starting unless choked and engine not producing any power points straight at a carb problem.

A stuck ring and compression loss are possible but the bike should have used oil and smoked before as this does not happen on a healthy engine.
General piston and ring wear is also possible although it does not explain the sudden problem but then you should also have noticed high oil consumption before engine expiry. The engine should also have smoked considerably (blue) during your starting attempts.

A rebore and a new piston and rings is not too bad an idea after 80000 KLR kilometres. Even if not necessary yet it would have been soon. Get the valves and seats remachined and replace the valve stem seals.
Replace the water pump shaft seals while at work if not done recently.
Get an Eagle lever to replace the doohickey if you don't have one already.

Good luck with getting the bike fixed!

The above balancer meets crank must obviously read REAR balancer shaft. The fwd balancers orbit nicely out of harm's way r and l of the crank with a naked shaft in between.

Saga continues...
 

Well here I am again folks, back on the sunny Colombian Costa Caribe, que calor! I am appealing to you once again to assist this bike idiot.

The "compression" thing, I am sure was an expensive red herring dreamed up by drunken Costeño bike mechanics. Nevertheless I have the polished cylinder and new piston rings.

With the much appreciated assistance of Phoenix, we established that whatever was wrong with the carburretor was beyond taking apart and cleaning. We never got it to work on his Kockney KLR. I had a nearly-new one sent out from Canada which looks spiffing.

I got the least drunken Costeño mechanic to rebuild the bike, (god knows what he might have done with the doohickey). I got the battery that I bought last time, recharged, but he said it didn´t have enough power to turn the bike over. I thought it might be the starter motor ´cos there has always been an intermittent starting problem. I took that out and tried it out on the NEW battery, and it worked fine, but granted without the extra load of the engine.

He insists that it is the NEW battery, but I have had it charged again, and bought a meter to test it.

NOW...forgive my almost complete and utter ignorance, but if the spark plug is removed, and I plop it into gear, shouldn´t I be able to turn the wheel, and listen to the piston flapping about? I´m sure I used to be able to do that on my Vespas back in the day - but it´s not a Vespa is it?

I think he´s stuck it back together so that nothing moves, no more.

HELP!, ´cos I need to get back to Bogota and feel the rain. This heat is killing me, man. It´s not funny anymore.

Mollydog, I knew you would not forsake me.

That rear wheel should turn, right? And I bought a VOM meter, AND it reads 12.6 v - very good!

HU Community? Patrick, I am the HU Community, and the only dealers round here are jetski dealers - that´s where I found the first drunken incompetent. I thought about paying to have the bike taken to Bogota, where I am sure I can find someone good with diagnostic tools. I also thought about flying someone in from Medellin or Bogota.

Good idea about the APB - IF THERE IS ANYONE IN COLOMBIA WHO KNOWS HOW TO FIX A KLR PROPERLY, PLEASE PM ME - I WILL MAKE IT WORTH YOUR WHILE.

Amongst other qualities, the thing I love about Colombians is their incessant optimism, skill with a hammer/machete and resourcefulness. Unfortunately owning up to your failings and shortcomings is not a Colombian trait.

Needs to turn over smoothly before trying to start it!
 

S/M,

When I put my TT600R back together I got the timing chain wrong (long story which is in the thread from last year). The bottom line was that the engine would not turn over "smoothly" - not at all basically (it felt like it was jammed in some way), and it felt like I was trying to force it via the kickstarter, which gave me the clue of something being wrong.

As Mollydog says, the same goes for you - if you can't feel the moving bits on the re-built bike as being "smooth" then it's not ready to be started - things, like the valves, are likely to get bent.

Dave,

Thanks for that. You and Patrick are confirming my fears, which is good ´cos I´d rather it not work for a reason seeking a solution, than be staring at a complete mystery.

Ah, Mick, I follow your continuing tale of woe with interest. I agree with what the guys are saying here.. it sounds like it could be a mis-timing issue from being mis-mantled one too many times by a bush-mechanic.

I have a copy of the official workshop manual now.. you want a copy?

Phoenix, I was wondering if I could get a copy of that manual. I just bought a KLR and I am going to be headed down south after the summer. I would like to get as familiar with the bike as possible.

Stretcher Monkey,
Any luck on shipping your bike to Bogota? Have you had better luck with mechanics elsewhere?

Step at a time
 

Know what you are saying, and I know how frustrating it gets.
One thing at a time and one day at a time worked for me, eventually. :rolleyes2:

@ Phoenix. You really are a class act. I´d love a copy. On second thoughts, why not bring it personally. We can have hours of fun taking my bike apart, and perhaps putting it back together again!


Cruthas, there is a very good and experienced moto mechanic in Medellin, (Moto Angel). I´m currently looking for someone to haul it over there. I am sure there is someone with experience of KLR´s in BOG, but I will have to find them first. My experience has been that for the basics, locals find working on KLR´s easy ´cos they are just like bigger versions of what they are used to. Anything else, like if it is the first time they have seen one and they won´t use a manual, and they´re favourite tool is a hammer, forget it!

Ah, now don't tempt me.. :) I'm currently in the process of looking for another contract in London, and given the way the Finance Industry is imploding right now, a trip around the Americas might be the best thing to do for a few months! I might take you up on that offer yet!

The manual.. ok.. just have to figure out where to upload it so.. Any suggestions on somewhere good to host it? Its too big to email..

I looked online before, and never managed to find it.. even using some of the obscure google search options. It may well be online somewhere now though, and if so, excellent!

I'll have a look later for somewhere to host it.

Dude, i'm guessing your in Cartegena? If your still having some serious problems with your mechanics, may i sugest you put the bike on a truck and get it over to Hector, Moto Angel en Medellin, pronto! These guy's will fix you up, guarenteed! I promise! Say hi for me!

...oops, i skipped over this post, your on the right track!

@Phoenix - nice one, I got the download. Thank you. Now I´m not wishing you a downturn in your career prospects, but in case you make it over, I´ll keep one on ice.

@Mr Ron - great minds think alike. I´ll say hello for you. In Santa Marta actually.

The upload took a while.. but all the good stuff is in there now.. :) It's just finished about 5 mins ago. I couldn't even see my gmail while it was going. Talk about hammering my pc!

Cruthas.. PM me, gimme your email, and I've give you access.

You'll see a ".tar.gz" file once you follow the link. .tar.gz is a tarred, then gzipped file.. In Windows, Winzip or WinRar should understand it, and if you're in Mac OSX or Linux ville (my world).. use the following shell command to uncompress it:

cd "whatever directory you want to use to contain the files"
tar -xzvf "KLR650.tar.gz"

Don't hang about too long in grabbing a copy onto your pc , as I don't want to leave this copy accessible for too long, for fairly obvious reasons.. :)

Ah yes, the thought of an evening with a few cold beers and a can of carb cleaner getting us high.. nothing like the simple things in life, eh? :)

Understandable Phoenix, thanks for the help. I just sent you a PM, I am curious as to what time it is in the UK when it is 9:00 am here.

UK clocks went forward a short time (no pun!) ago
 

Here's a site that shows a world map that will give you the answer in real time:-
Time - Current time around the World and standard time zones map of the world

There are quite a few facilities like this on the internet, if you prefer a different form of presentation.

I've been keeping some fairly strange hours over the past few days alright!

Man, ill be with you in a week...

We will sort the poblem. Timing, battery or whatever !!!!

Ted

Had a problem with my KLR after rebuilding the top end (rings and light honing) and I'd also sorted the "doohickey" issue. Spent a lot of time fiddling with the carb, ignition, checking timing etc. No luck.

In the end I found that the flywheel wasn't quite seated right on the woodruff key. Fired straight up after that. Don't know if that'll help but anythings worth a go I guess.



Also, if someone could send me the KLR650 manual I would really really appreciate it!!!


Hope you get it sorted!!
:mchappy:

PM me your address and I'll send you one. All I ask in return is help me ship a few Tengai items from the UK to the US. I'll buy the Tengai parts (small ones) and have them sent to you. You ship them to me (the cost of shipping would be no more than the cost of the manual).

Deal? No gimmicks here. I've done this already with a member of this site and it worked out fine.

Lemme know.

Thx,

John

Don't know if you resolved the problem yet but here are some pics that might help. I took these after I had a washer get caught in the timing chain.. notice the two arrows on the cams...

Always nice to get a "thanks chinas!" once the bike is running again or must we assume stretcher monkey still sitting on KLR bits in the jungle of Colombia?.

After sitting for 3 months, Did you try helping out the compression a little by putting in a little oil in the plug hole. If the bike was running fine, and the carb was cleaned , try that.