Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Technical, Bike forums > Kawasaki

Kawasaki Kawasaki Tech Forum - For Questions specific and of interest to Kawasaki riders only. Questions comparing which bike is best etc go in the "Which Bike" forum.
Contact Overland Solutions for all your custom modifications and setup for overland travel.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12 Nov 2007
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: LINCOLN
Posts: 3
kle 500 non starting

Hi all. I am struggling with my kle . After a top end rebuild, the bike now refuses to start. All cams and valve gear replaced as per manual, bike has fuel and sparks, and seams to attempt to fire, but out off time. Motor did over heat prior to rebuild. crank pick up measures 110 ohms, coils seam ok, don't know if there is anything wrong with cdi , have nothing to swop it with, does it just work or not?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12 Nov 2007
Jedkel's Avatar
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: U.K.
Posts: 19
Check the compression. If you have spark , fuel and compression it should start.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12 Nov 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sax, Spain
Posts: 919
180 out?

just check that its firing on the compression stroke..... and not 180 degrees out and firing on the exhaust stroke.
if its sparking, and the spark is coming on the compression stroke, she should start.


to test:first see if its possible to put a finger over plug hole with plug removed, if so, great! ( put finger over hole, not in it, just seal it so you can feel compression, we don't want trapped fingers and bent valves..... or law suits)
THEN, turn ignition on, make sure its in gear, kill switch on run, if your bike has a kick starter, get some one to GENTLY turn engine over ( if no kick starter use rear wheel, 2nd gear, bike on a stand so rear wheel off ground) feel compression build......... at the same time ( pays to be ambidextrous) hold the spark plug in the end of the plug cap using insulated pliers against some bare part of the frame ( a nut or bolt head will do) and as the compression builds watch for a nice fat spark. if there is compression and a fat spark: lovely stuff
you can do this by gently dabbing the electric started, but you want it to be "controlled" and 'feel' when the compression stroke is building.
if it sparks when there is NO compression.......then whoops....... possibly 180 out or the valve clearances are too tight.

thats my 2p worth anyway, or at least what I would do first.

hope this helps

Martyn
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 14 Nov 2007
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: LINCOLN
Posts: 3
Thanks for the advice, will have to wait till the weekend to try again . Had a little accident at work, and fingers not very well. Will let you know how it goes.
kwakchris
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 18 Nov 2007
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: LINCOLN
Posts: 3
All would appear to be correct at first sight . A closer inspection however revealed that the cog on the crank that runs the camshaft has moved . Weather this is pressed or pinned on I do not know. It means the timming marks on the cam shaft cogs are no good, and of course it could move again when the motor got hot , if I ever got it started. An other motor is the best option, but having difficuty finding one. Has anybody any experience of fitting a er5 motor in place of the kle? physically no problem I guess, but what do I need to change on the electrical side? I know I am a pain in the rear end but don't want to scrap the bike. All usful suggestions concidered.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 20 Nov 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sax, Spain
Posts: 919
hmmmmmmmmmm

well Chris I dont know if its pinned or what BUT, if its a pin that has sheared, its not too hard a fix. if its pressed and worked loose....its gonna play on your mind like a bad woman.
What would I do? I would get it all lined up perfect, then MIG weld the damn sprocket on! make sure it runs, then sell the bike to a non hubb member sharpish like and buy an XT......
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12 Dec 2007
phoenix's Avatar
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: London / Dublin
Posts: 349
Sounds like it could be that the cam chain timing is out, since you took replaced the camshaft and top sprocket. There's normally an inspection port down near the crankshaft to view the tick on the bottom sprocket (which should normally be at 12 o clock), and an inspection port (or possibly have to remove the valve cover on top) to view the tick at 12 on the top sprocket (RTM to be sure). Once both are at 12 o clock (ie Top Dead Centre - TDC) on the compression stroke (important!), you can re-check the valve clearance.

If the timing is wrong by 360 degrees (ie, you set it up at TDC, but not on the compression stroke), you'll get the valves coming down to meet the piston on it's way up.. not good! If it does actually manage to turn over without churning itself into a mass of tangled metal, it definitely won't fire up.

Incidentally, some systems have a "wasted spark" setup, where a spark is generated on both compression and exhaust (dependent on the ignition circuit setup).. so the important thing to check is the spark on the compression stroke (as per the excellent check in the previous post).

The CDI could have blown too.. if that went, you'd normally not get a spark at all (or if you did, it certainly wouldn't be advanced / retarded by the correct amount, for the load, engine speed, etc). The manual normally has CDI resistance tests in there that you can do, but the easiest way is definitely to switch in a known good unit. If you need to replace it, the Kawasaki OEM unit is expensive (I was quoted 290 GBP + VAT last week for one).. try this instead.. I've ordered one for my KLR.. IgniTech (130 EUR or so for a programmable CDI).

The sprocket is normally secured with 2 small bolts.. I'm not sure how it would move out of alignment when the motor got hot.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12 Dec 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 3,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwakchris22 View Post
All would appear to be correct at first sight . A closer inspection however revealed that the cog on the crank that runs the camshaft has moved . Weather this is pressed or pinned on I do not know. It means the timming marks on the cam shaft cogs are no good, and of course it could move again when the motor got hot , if I ever got it started. An other motor is the best option, but having difficuty finding one. Has anybody any experience of fitting a er5 motor in place of the kle? physically no problem I guess, but what do I need to change on the electrical side? I know I am a pain in the rear end but don't want to scrap the bike. All usful suggestions concidered.
I agree with the last post; I can't see how that driving cog can be out of alignment because you have not changed it while doing your work (or have you?) - how are you so sure that is the case when you don't know how it is fixed in place?
Anyway, the important point is that the sets of timing marks are in alignment and the camshafts (plural - I guess you have two sets for a twin) are also aligned.

I did a similar job on a single cyl and the bike would not start when it was all back together - this turned out to be caused by me pulling the spark plug lead off so many times; even though there was a spark, it was not a strong one I guess (but it was visible in "shaded" light). Once I remade the connection of the lead to the spark plug cap and back to the coil it fired up.
__________________
Dave
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12 Dec 2007
phoenix's Avatar
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: London / Dublin
Posts: 349
I've just re-read the original mail..

Quote:
All cams and valve gear replaced as per manual
Quote:
bike has fuel and sparks, and seams to attempt to fire, but out off time
When you replaced the cams and valve gear, the top sprocket needed to come off, giving ample opportunity to put it back on in a (even slightly) different position, messing up the timing.. this is what I think is happening. Once the spockets are secured, the only thing that should cause the timing to change (even marginally) is via the chain tension, which is on the same side of the engine (left?), normally at the rear. Make sure the chain has been tensioned once the valve cover is back on and secured, but before you do the valve clearance adjustment (otherwise the valve clearance can change slightly once the chain gets tensioned).

The KLE is a double overhead camshaft engine, right?? one cam for the exhaust valves, one cam for the inlet valves (I'm assuming this based on the KLR, so I could be wrong).

Best way to fix the problem now (assuming it's still a problem) is to break the problem down.. verify one thing at a time (fuel, electrical, mechanical, etc), until you find something that looks iffy, fix that, then continue checking.. First thing to check is always: fuel, fuel tap, fuel pipes (to carb, etc), battery, battery connections, spark connection, coil, etc.

Also, re-read the manual for the work that was done on changing the cams and valve gear.. have all the procedures been followed correctly??

What caused the over-heat in the first place? Has that been fixed?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12 Dec 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 3,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwakchris22 View Post
. A closer inspection however revealed that the cog on the crank that runs the camshaft has moved .

Perhaps the timing chain is off this bottom cog? This happened to me while reassembling the top of the engine - I removed the side cover, after draining the oil (some people say it can be done without draining by leaning the bike to the side) and managed to get the chain back on the cog by a stretch of the fingers, without taking off the flywheel/generator. Before that, I tried to get the chain back on the cog with a long screwdriver down the timing chain "tunnel" but it was jammed in and needed to be moved by hand.
Fortunately, I did not try to start the bike with the chain off it's cog - it was very stiff in turning over by hand with the kickstart, unsurprisingly! - that gave me the clue of what was wrong!
__________________
Dave
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kawasaki KLE manual Shustrik Kawasaki 191 7 Mar 2011 20:17
KLE 500 stability Goldcoaster Kawasaki 12 18 Jan 2008 05:28
kle 500 tank dxfire Kawasaki 2 20 Oct 2007 18:36
KLE 500 Magazine Reviews JULESKLE500 Kawasaki 1 21 Sep 2007 14:16
KLE 500 running Ruff,,Ruff Fizzy Kawasaki 3 11 Jul 2007 09:47

 
 


HU DVD Summer Special!

Now that summer is here, get On the Road! Take 30% off the Achievable Dream - On the Road! 2-DVD set until August 31 only. Get On the Road! Learn the tips to staying healthy, happy and secure on your motorcycle adventure!

Our veteran travellers share their tips (and great stories) for staying healthy, happy and secure on your motorcycle adventure.

"A fantastic, informative and inspirational DVD."

"It's brilliant - thank you very much!"

Check it out at the HU Store! Remember to use Coupon Code 'ONTHEROAD' on your order when you checkout.


Renedian Adventures


Renedian Adventures

What others say about HU...

"I just wanted to say thanks for doing this and sharing so much with the rest of us." Dave, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the DVD series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring! The new look of the website is very impressive, updated and catchy. Thank you so very much!" Jennifer, Canada

"...Great site. Keep up the good work." Murray and Carmen, Australia

"We just finished a 7 month 22,000+ mile scouting trip from Alaska to the bottom of Chile and I can't tell you how many times we referred to your site for help. From how to adjust your valves, to where to stay in the back country of Peru. Horizons Unlimited was a key player in our success. Motorcycle enthusiasts from around the world are in debt to your services." Alaska Riders

contest pic

10th Annual HU Travellers Photo Contest is on now! This is an opportunity for YOU to show us your best photos and win prizes!

NEW! HU 2014 Adventure Travel T-shirts! are now available in several colors! Be the first kid on your block to have them! New lower prices on synths!

HU 2014 T-shirts now in!

Check out the new Gildan Performance cotton-feel t-shirt - 100% poly, feels like soft cotton!


What turns you on to motorcycle travel?


Global Rescue, WORLDwide evacuation services for EVERYONE

Global Rescue is the premier provider of medical, security and evacuation services worldwide and is the only company that will come to you, wherever you are, and evacuate you to your home hospital of choice. Additionally, Global Rescue places no restrictions on country of citizenship - all nationalities are eligible to sign-up!


New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80 G/S motorcycle.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events (22 this year!); we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, the HUBB or to receive the e-zine. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.


Books & DVDs

amazon

All the best travel books and videos listed and often reviewed on HU's famous Books page. Check it out and get great travel books from all over the world.


Motorcycle Express for shipping and insurance!

Motorcycle Express

MC Air Shipping, (uncrated) USA / Canada / Europe and other areas. Be sure to say "Horizons Unlimited" to get your $25 discount on Shipping!
Insurance - see: For foreigners traveling in US and Canada and for Americans and Canadians traveling in other countries, then mail it to MC Express and get your HU $15 discount!




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 21:36.