Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB

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-   -   2008 KLR650. Clutch & Rear hubb issues. (http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/kawasaki/2008-klr650-clutch-rear-hubb-65158)

dylan_016 9 Jul 2012 04:20

2008 KLR650. Clutch & Rear hubb issues. Urgent-ish - Mendoza
 
I have 2008 KLR 650. 32,000miles.
Have been touring with loaded bike, and rode 1-2000km with chain too tight. During the first 1000km, my oil went below minimum mark for several hundred kms (I wasnt aware they burnt so much oil).

Slowly developing after this, I have noticed the following problems:

Shifting from neutral to first, and first to second, results in a decent clunk, and/or a bit of gear grinding. This can sometimes be reduced by holding in clutch for 10secs, chirping throttle etc.

The rear hub has about 5mm of play, in the direction of drive. It also has back and forth play (hold top and bottom of rear driven sprocket, wiggle away and towards = play).

Ive changed oil, clutch cable (plus lube). No change.

Have removed rear sprocket, inspected rear hub, cush rubber looks decent. Bearings operate well. When replacing rear sprocket/hubb assembly, it doesnt seat all the way in. It sits 0.5-1mm proud. So the circumference of the hubb does not seat/marry, resulting in 0.5-1mm gap, hence the back and forwards play. Only the inner spacer marrys with the bearing either side. When axle is tightened, same situation. When I remove the spacer inside the hubb, it seats perfectly.

Thoughts:
Low oil levels have warped damaged clutch plates.
Tight chain has slightly bent drive shaft, somehow resulting in gear grind.
Tight chain has pulled on rear sprocket, slightly bent something, and skewed it out (allowing bearings to move...)...
Left side rear bearings (wheel and hub) have moved towards eachother slightly, hence the spacer creates just too big a gap.

PS: Theres enough drive chain lube oil around the front sprocket, so I havent checked for oil leakage about front sprocket yet.

Does anyone have any thoughts? Thanks very much for any input in advance.

dylan_016 9 Jul 2012 19:28

Update
 
Have cleaned front sprocket, run bike and left to stand. No apparent oil leaks from around countershaft. Good news.

Ive inspected the rear hubb assembly again. Everything (bearings, spacers, c-clips etc) looks to be in place and in correct order as per exploded diagram.

Maybe the left (port) side wheel bearing has moved outboard (towards rear sprocket) slightly, or was never inserted all the way in? The long spacer between the 2 wheel bearings seems fairly snug, so it seems a more unlikely cause of the issue. (when wedge finger into long spacer, spacer has a small amount (0.5-0.75mm) of up/down play - normal?)

Does the long spacer between wheel bearings only work one way? The exploded view is unclear.

Can the right (starboard) side bearing, and/or sprocket carrier bearing, be inserted too far? I imagine there is a lip that will provide a physical stop when the bearing reaches correct insertion depth.

As before, remove spacer between sprocket carrier and left side of wheel, and the sprocket carrier fits snug. This spacer can not be reversed, only fits one way.

Im puzzled...

dylan_016 9 Jul 2012 22:53

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Ive been waiting out a sunday and public holiday (today) to see a mechanic tomorrow.
Tks

dylan_016 10 Jul 2012 00:25

Is there anyone in Mendoza, that has a KLR also, and wouldnt mind meeting up for an hour or so, and swapping out some rear hub parts to see where a potential problem may lie?

Tks again,
Dylan

MikeyMoto 10 Jul 2012 02:21

Hello Dylan,

Hope your troubles are soon sorted. In the meantime have a look at this link 2008 Kawasaki KLR650 KL650E Parts, 2008 Kawasaki KLR650 KL650E OEM Parts - BikeBandit.com It gives a good exploded view of the hub and rear drive. You can also zoom in on the area you are interested in. I ride a 2008 KLR as well and have made the mistake of leaving out the washer that sits behind the rear axle nut, which resulted in some play. Look at the exploded view and double check (just in case) that all the spacers and washer(s) are accounted for and placed in order. Yes, I have put them in the wrong order also! doh The play between the rubber cushion and the mount for the rear sprocket is normal. I just checked mine. Is that what you are referring to? The clunk between 1st and 2nd is also normal, that is a result of the neutral finder. When I first got the bike I was concerned with that clunk as well and the shop just said what I have said, the neutral finder. A cold engine gives a clunk shifting into first or if the clutch plates stick, which is not uncommon. Am I stating the obvious?

Unfortunately some KLR’s burn oil, mine does but not that much, and only at speeds above 100 kph. I am quite sure you noticed the low oil in time and did not/will not suffer any ill effects. I hope I am not being too optimistic. A few years back I rode to Alaska and met a fellow on a KTM and he was adjusting his chain while the bike was on the centre stand with no weight on the rear tire. So when he took the bike off the stand the chain was really tight and over the course of a few days his rear sprocket wore down to nothing. All he had to do was replace the sprocket and learn the error of his ways. His engine and gears were fine. Hopefully yours will be too.

All the best, Mike

dylan_016 10 Jul 2012 14:13

Thanks Mikey,

As per exploded view, all looks OK. Same pic I was using before.

The 1mm gap is between the larger circular inside face of part no. 42033 and the corresponding face on the hub. The spacer 42036 acts as the physical stop. So its like a DVD resting on a table with a marble in the middle (exaggerated).

Maybe bearing 601 needs to be inserted into the hub 1mm further? I wouldnt think it could have worked its way out with axle tight, but maybe it was never inserted all the way.

dylan_016 10 Jul 2012 18:51

Update
 
I just went to Javier Sallustro @ Sallustro Racing. 971 San Martin, Mendoza.

He thinks that the 0.5-1mm gap is normal. He thinks that if the gap did not exist and the pieces fitted flush, then as the cush rubber wears and the sprocket develops subsequent fwd and back play, there will be metal/metal interface movement, and thus the parts will wear. The gap designed to accomodate this movement...?

What he says makes sense, and with axle done up there is only a little play - just enough to make me question it.

Can anyone have a look at their KLR and see if they have a gap also? If so, how much gap?

PS - MikeyMoto - does your N into 1st and 1st into 2nd still clunk a little when the engine is warm?

Tks again,
Dylan

MikeyMoto 10 Jul 2012 21:21

Hello Dylan,

Thanks for the update. I had a feeling after I posted that you were using the same exploded view. As far as play is concerned, there is back and forth play (front of bike to rear of bike) between the rubber cushion (92075) and part 42033. There is no play if I grab the left-hand and right-hand sides of the sprocket and simultaneously pull towards myself and push away form myself (towards the hub). If I pull the left-hand side of the sprocket and push the right-hand side of the sprocket at the same time, and vice versa, there is play. Not much but noticeable. Also, if I look side on at the hub (41034) and part 42033 there is a small gap, about the width you describe. Does that make sense? In answer to your question, there is always a clunk between 1st and 2nd. From neutral to 1st, when warm, is not terribly smooth, it depends on how sticky the clutch plates are, or not, as the case may be. Sorry I can’t be more specific. I leave mid October for SA, how’s your trip so far? Hope it all gets sorted.

All the best, Mike.

dylan_016 11 Jul 2012 00:19

Mike,

Thanks a lot, good answer.

Everything you have described re rear hub makes sense.

Conclusion: What I originally thought was an issue, probably isnt (according to this thread, what a mechanic has told me after looking at it, and the following extract from another thread I posted):

Your description of "the rear hub has about 5mm of play, in the direction of drive" is, I assume, just play in the cush drive which is normal.

Your description of "hold top and bottom of rear driven sprocket, wiggle away and towards = play" is the play in the only bearing the sprocket carrier rides on. If that bearing turns smoothly and does not feel loose when you turn it with your finger in it, I would not worry about it.

You say "When replacing rear sprocket/hub assembly, it doesn't seat all the way in". The spacer between the sprocket carrier and the hub holds that small space between them so that they do not rub when the cush drive flexes.

Your description of the spacers sounds normal. Once the axle nut is tightened, the spacers including the long center one and the bearing inner races form a solid hollow shaft around the axle. The bearings can not move right or left.


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