Oh **** !!!!!!!!!!!!! something went very wrong there !!!

I think the timing was messed up on the rear cylinder. It looks like the valve has been smashing into the piston.

You can not repair the piston or the cylinder head...

Im sorry, but you need to buy a new piston, find a second hand cylinder head (Ebay), and replace the valve (and valve seal)..

All the other valves need to be checked and measured...

You need the correct manual for the bike... This guy who put the engine back together is obviously not a proper mechanic ! It's not difficult to time up a V-twin ! Especially in the USA where twins are in every bloody cruiser going.

I just read below... You said you could not get the cam chain aligned... You should not of carried on if it wasnt right !

Get comfortable.. You are not going anywhere for a while !

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

yes ted, this is really bad. i got to see if the cylinder wall are badly damaged and also if any piece of metel fell into the engine.

this is the rear cylinder. i cant imagine about the front cylinder. need to check that also!

i just couldnt get the timing right. i turn it to the TDC and try to align it but could not. by moving one sprocket space would be too much, and move one sprocket space back would be too little.

i guess this time i have to sent it to someone and do it.

goh.

Sometimes it's just worth handing it over to a proper garage !!

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Man, this does not look good.
Getting parts in the USA will now be a problem, and take a lot of time.
Why dont you send the bike as it is down to Australia (as this is your next country on your tour) and get it fixed there, where they have that model and its spares available?

I dont have much faith in the American mechanics. I also got screwed for $350 by a BMW dealer (Miami). Send my bike in just to check and adjust the valves, as the bike was idling a bit rough and uneven. When I got it back the bike could not even idle anymore! Had to fix it myself. Had much better service in Colombia (Medellin).
This does not mean that they all are bad, but it sure is expensive if you dont get the right one.

johan

hi Ted, i totally agree with Johan. i had the same experience here. getting advice from the bike shop that i need to change engine oil, oil filter and spark plugs, which i can do it myself ended up the bike is already in the workshop draining oil... i was virgin in this country and do not know how everything works out.... so if this case i think it is really hard to find someone that can do a good job.

changing a oring seal at the alternater needs just an alan key to open it, take out the old oring, put the new oring and put the cover back by using an alan key would charge $1+$35. $1 is for the oring and $35 for the labour. he sold me that engine oil which cost $59.90 a gallon and said that it is good for my clutch problem.

the next guy would be the guy that seat my valve. he charged $90 per hr, which he took 3.6hrs for the job. i paid without a discount and went back...

i did not say it was all his fault but it was a total of US$600 for the first round of lesson learned.

i dont think this is what america is made of. there is really really alot of helpful people around and we really appricate!

goh

Just been reading your blog about this and we are shocked for you Goh and Samantha!

I reckon geting a new s/h engine would be the safest way to go, sounds it's not worth ordering new parts for additional delays and unknown results with the repairs. Europe has loads of crashed bikes markets, including ATs, maybe get a good working engine off from Europe? Good thing to it is that USA doesn't have high importation taxes unlike the rest of the world that just rip you off with their imporation VAT/TAX. Usually it's around 10% or less of the price you bough it outside USA (you may "fake" the bill smaller too, but do it safely), depending on the state.

Maybe someone in Europe can find you a good working Affy Twin engine and post it to USA?

Nobody ever looks engine number on the border crossings. The only place I've had it looked (and w/o any meaning, since it's nowhere written in my bike's tech-passport) was in Syria after years of travelling in dozens of countries, so I guess you'll be fine with engine having different number for a start(?) and maybe change the number to a new one later in the process (in Carnet and bike's technical passport, if you have it there). You'll just bolt on the new engine and at least you'll get somewhere rather than repairing and waiting with oily hands and being frustruated!?

Just a thought.

Fingres crossed for you guys,
Margus & Kariina (the Estonians you met in Argentina)

Oh man, that really sucks... must feel terrible after all the effort you´ve put in, but I´m afraid you´ll need a new major overhaul, and could be worth checking out, if you can get a replacement-engine cheaper.

Here´s hoping you are able to get it back running again, looks like you´re having a great trip, except for this of course!

hi all,

actually i had forgetten about the downturn of economy in usa where businessowner will try their best to earn as much money and cash from customer where i had been one of their easy customer.

i became dissapointed. there are too many fineprints in USA.

even in subway sandwich restruant, where there is a $3 breakfast combo which inculde a 6inch sandwich, coffee, yogurt/fruit. but when i went to the counter and told that guy that i wanted the $3 breakfast combo, he would ask me if i want a 6inch or 12inch bread.

i ordered 6inch bread.

the second day that guy ask me the same question again and i ordered the 12inch bread. ended up the bill was $9. you could say that it is my fault by not asking if there would be extra charge for 12inch bread but all they could do is to give me what ever is included in the $3 breakfast combo. by asking if i want a 6 or 12 inch bread and charged extra is very misleading.

the second incident was i wanted to buy a tree measuring equipment from a trade show in RI, i went to the kiosk and the salesman quoted me $400.

then the company had some luckydraw and i got a 50% discount voucher. i asked the boss how much was that equipment, where he knew i had the 50% voucher, he quoted me $800 before discount.

i am just dissappointed with this 2 incident.

not to mention that Houston Motorcycle Exchange and that guy that charged me $95/hr for the valve seat job that screwed up everything.

but there are still many many many nice people in USA that i had met other than these clever businessman. i am just not careful and trust people too easily.

goh

Bloody hell, what a situation to be in… having traveled on my old AT I know how attached you can become…

Looking at the problems, a replacement engine would be the way to go, but of course you never know their condition… you might find an enthusiast breaking one, so look on ebay.co.uk and the xrv website..

What bad luck, I’m surprised you didn’t hear anything as your valves destroyed themselves on the piston crown.. thinking out aloud it couldn’t be the cam timing – would the bike run with it out so much ? if it’s the valves, adjusted hot or cold they would only contact if you’re flat out say 7000+ rpm … so are the replacement pistons too long in the body ? might explain it or the valves the wrong length … no mention of different con-rods and again if the crank and big ends are shot still wouldn’t explain the damage. … broken ring… naa

Good luck mate, take some time off from the bike and go back to it with a fresh head….

looking again at the enlarged pix, the bloody valve is broken.... OK forget the rest of this message......

hi goodwoodwierdo:

thanks for the advice. what i noticed when i took out one by one.

1) the rear cylinder head cover: i saw the intake valve cap spring jumped off. so i thought by putting the intake valve cap back onto the spring will do the trick. BUT

2) when i took out the cylinder head, the piston is jammed onto the cylinder wall. one of the valve was broken away from the stem. i saw crack on the piston. the new piston ring came off from the side causing the jam. then the piston caliper was broken away from the piston. i couldnt find any piece of the broken metal from the piston. it's supposed to be a huge junk of metal. it could be inside the crank case.

then i noticed that when i turn the flywheel, there are some obstruction. the metal could have went into the case. the rod is bend. shit...

remedy: easy! i found another engine in germany. a used one. i trust that owner of the engine. i really hope it is just a plug and play senerio. but the engine from germany is a RD07 model where mine is a RD07A. he told me that the alternator is different.

how it happened?

the piston and cylinder:
i took the bike to austin to seek help from a friend. he is quite an expert in building up bike and has good knowledge on bikes. i had compression ratio issues and engine is burning too much engine oil. so we took out the piston ring and it is out of service spec.

we ordered a 0.25 upsize ring.

when the ring arrived, it is too big for the cylinder. we did not want to bore the cylinder as the cylinder wall is not damaged. instead, we hone abit of the wall.

since the 0.25 ring is slightly oversized, we decided to file/buff of abit of the piston ring on one end of it. we did only on the top and second ring. the rest of the lower rings are also abit big but we did not do any removing of materials. when we slide in the cylinder down into the piston with the rings, i had to squeeze in the piston ring one by one to the cylinder. i dont know if it is too tight for the cylinder.

my question: was the piston ring too tight for the cylinder? we measured it to specification. do we need to remove some materials off the lower rings also? but there isnt any specifications in the manual for the lower rings. only the top and second.

we did not change the piston holder clip. this small little clip seems ok, undamaged. the manual recommanded always replace the small clip when we took out the piston.

???


the valves:

we took the new valve stem,seat and seal to a proper machining shop. he 'cut' the cylinder to fit the new valve. paid him quite a good $ for the job. the new valve seems to fit well. i dont know what kind of specification is needed for this job. i took the manual to the workshop and the mechnic only took down some degree of angle stated in the book for cutting.

when we fixed everything in and the last thing is to do the valve clearance, there isn't any allowance to do the valve clearance. it happen on the rear cylinder. suspected that the lenght of the valve would be standard and the workshop might had took out much materials from the cylinder head, causing a overlength of the valve, we took out some materials off the top of the valve to meet the spec of the valve clearance.


the timing chain:

we turn the flywheel to front cylinder, that will be the TDC. then there is a marking on the timing chain sprocket that we have to align parallel with the cylinder head. we did it.

then we turn the flywheel to rear cylinder, that will be the TDC for the rear, again we try to align the timing chain sprocket.

but both front and rear timing chain sprockets could not be aligned. we move the sprocket one tooth to the front, it would be too much, move one tooth to the back, would be too little. meanwhile the flywheel is still in the proper position.

so we decided to make the best alignment by giving both cylinder abit off to the intake side. that is the best we could do. there isn't any 'half tooth' spacing or movement for the sprocket to get the best alignment. we also suspect that there is a elongation of chain due to the age of the bike, that is why we couldnt align it back.

this 3 elements (the piston rings, the new valve seating, the timing sprocket) would contribute to the failure of the engine.

what do u think?

goh

Firstly I DO think your best bet is to start with another engine…but maybe take you time and look for the correct engine otherwise you’ll add to your misery….

OK so know you know the hard way…..

Your old engine is f*****ed its impossible to hone an engine to take a oversized piston ring, it needs to be machined and all over-sizing needs to be done as a kit, eg cylinder, piston and ring.. the cam / timing chain is imperative its correct… Did you compare the rear head to the front, establishing too much was removed ? how did you decide how much to take off the end of the valve ?

To build a reliable engine, you just can not machine parts to fit… any of the factors you state would have a fatal effect on your engine … including stretched timing chain, worn timing chain tensioners… in my humble opinion a rebuild, should have been a re-bore, new pistons, rings, chain and tensioners, maybe crank and big end bearings… then ask the question does the head also need doing, do the valves sit properly is the cam worn …etc

If not then STOP and work backwards, something is very wrong,


Conclusion, wrong timing, wrong chain adjustment, valves and valve adjustment @ 4000 rpm beat the hell out of the valve, valve breaks and drops into the engine destroying it…

Expensive lesson, but the new engine, you’ll regularly maintain and look after – won’t you ?

This is all basic automotive engineering, I’m surprised a local bike shop couldn’t help an Overland Traveler out …

I had a similar experience once back in the past when i fitted filled down over sized rings on my Suzuki GS425. The result was bad, they never seated in properly and the bike used more oil than petrol, beacause when you squeese the rings to fit you distort the perfect round shape into an oval shape. So had to get the originals at the end anyway, so that was a bad idea from the start.

Hope that 'new' second hand motor is on its way. By the time you get your bike going it will be winter up in the USA.

hi JC and Goodwoodwierdo:

im still waiting for the engine to arrive. it should come on 16aug09, sunday and monday i could clear the custom and bring the bike and the new used engine to the workshop named: Moto Guzzi and Hyosung motorcycles of Houston Sales and Service - Independent BMW Repair/Service motorcycles, by MPH Cycles, Inc. All years, all models in Houston, Katy, Cinco Ranch areas, Texas

i hope mphcycles could help me.

also, i would be using the old clutch cover and alternator gasket which i installed few weeks ago.

keep u guys updated on the process.

goh

Goodwoodweirdo is dead right !!!!!!!!

You did too much "guess work" on your engine and used crazy parts and then adapted them yourself..

For a start, you used the wrong size piston ring. Going oversize when you didnt need. You cant just file down oversize rings and "make" them fit..

The valve job seemed like a nightmare from the start... It just doesnt work that way.

Man, I told you at the start of this thread it wasnt the right way to go. It was always going to be a dissaster.

This whole thing was a 4 hour simple job for a GOOD mechanic and workshop. Instead it has turned into a nightmare. . It is sad that a lot of bad yank butchers got their hands on your engine and more importantly your money.

I dont mean to say the Americans arn't good mechanics.. There are some fantastic mecahnics and technicians in the US, some of the best in the world, but sadly you ended up with every redneck idiot "have a go" guy !! Very bad luck !!

My friend, Im sorry for your problems... I really feel for you.

I dont mean to sounds like an asshole but you ignored most of the good advice on this thread !

Now, you have a new engine on the way ! Take GOOD CARE of this one...

Check valve clearances, make sure timing is good, make sure everything is nice and tight.. change the oil and make sure everthing is good BEFORE YOU FIT AND RUN IT !

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

It will be interesting to know how much all this set you back in $. Please share that with us when you're up and running again.
My biggest single setback was a new front rim that I had to buy in Alaska. It just cracked. Cost me about $1200 and I thought that was bad. Shortned our trip by two to three weeks because of it.

I guess you wont make it to Canada or even Alaska? We were up there in September, but that was pushing it a bit, as the Tempratures were between -2 and 5 (night - day) up in the Yukon. So be prepared if you do plan to go up there.

johan