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  #16  
Old 23 Jun 2012
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Nothing at all to apologise for, Est.
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  #17  
Old 26 Jun 2012
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Hi. I am from Singapore & just come across this site & the topic discussed.

I hv convert mine to tubeless & travelled 18,200KM with it from Singapore via China reasonably rough terrains to Jeddah (Saudi) in 2010 without a single glitch pertaining to it (electrical problem to the machine, yes, but not the tyres or engine), despite couple of accidents & countless fall and skids due to fatigue.

* Take note the angled inlet valve at the front tyre, indicating tubeless tyre mounting



More of the pix of the trip can be found here; (facebook)
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  #18  
Old 26 Jun 2012
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Welcome to the HUBB Zam and thanks for showing that tubeless can work on an AT.

Can't get on/see your FB page so would be good to know how you actually did it.
Simply sealing the standard rims (did they have the 'safety' lip) or some other means?

C
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  #19  
Old 26 Jun 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Scott View Post
Welcome to the HUBB Zam and thanks for showing that tubeless can work on an AT.

Can't get on/see your FB page so would be good to know how you actually did it.
Simply sealing the standard rims (did they have the 'safety' lip) or some other means?

C
Thanks for the welcom Chris.

It was done by the local bike repair workshop & they keeping it trade-secret hush-hush. They claimed using ‘industrial’ silicon. (I notice trace of black silicon under the layers of duct tape over it).

Using tubeless type tyre is a MUST because of the tyre bead I suppose. However I DO NOT notice any mods being done to the rims lips, (I was there, inspecting the rims during the mounting).

I was worried and kind-of regret at 1st as it may jeopardize my long haul trip, especially at the unknown terrains of Central Asia, however everything seems to be fine. No wobble even at my old AT top-speed of 160kph.

Since then, a couple of my buddies had theirs converted as well, although many still skeptical.
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  #20  
Old 26 Jun 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dstehouwer View Post
just practice patching your innner tube, and leave it all original. Or (if that is possible??) swap the spokes/rims on the bike to tubeless versions.
(although I can never recommend BMW parts on a Honda AT ;-))

else: don't risk it, the stock rims are simply not made for tubeless.
I had my rear AT using CB400 rim (Varadero 1000 rim is similar). The sprocket & the brake assembly needs to follow suit as well.
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  #21  
Old 26 Jun 2012
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Thanks for the details Zam.

Quote:
... They claimed using ‘industrial’ silicon. (I notice trace of black silicon under the layers of duct tape over it).
I wonder if it may have been the vulcanising method as the chopper guys use, as that is not a DIY sealant job as I did.

Quote:
Using tubeless type tyre is a MUST because of the tyre bead I suppose.
I also read somewhere that TL tyres have a coating inside to eliminate porosity through the carcass. And like you say the bead is perhaps more finely made or different profile? - as this is the seal.

Quote:
However I DO NOT notice any mods being done to the rims lips, (I was there, inspecting the rims during the mounting).
So you used [CB400] 'safety rims' with a lip. While safety rims certainly stop a tyre - tubed or tubeless - coming off a rim when pressure is lost - I suspect on a TL tyre they also serve to increase the seal surface area with the tyre bead.

Quote:
Since then, a couple of my buddies had theirs converted as well, although many still skeptical...
Well like all untried mods for overlanding it's a gamble, especially on a long trip like yours. And you do wonder if some TL tyres and tube-rims sealed to run TL may not be a good combination (as seemed the case on the front of my XT660Z, the back was fine over 4000 miles). Anyway, you've proved it worked for you.

Did you have many punctures on the road and did you just plug them? I take it 18k to Saudi was more than one set of tyres.

I may try and track down a vulcanised rim band for my next bike if fitting the Tubliss is a pain.
I'm using Heidi K60s and they're stiffer than a Mich Desert.
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  #22  
Old 26 Jun 2012
Zam Zam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Scott View Post
Did you have many punctures on the road and did you just plug them? I take it 18k to Saudi was more than one set of tyres.
It was ‘unfortunate’ that I do not experience any punctures during the trip, otherwise it wld be a useful input.

Although I do carry spares along, but due to 1/3 of the journey were dirt/gravel & such kind of terrains, thus ‘no chance’ for the spares ;-)

<btw I was using Pirelli Scorpion >
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  #23  
Old 26 Jun 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zam View Post
It was ‘unfortunate’ that I do not experience any punctures during the trip, otherwise it wld be a useful input.

Although I do carry spares along, but due to 1/3 of the journey were dirt/gravel & such kind of terrains, thus ‘no chance’ for the spares ;-)

<btw I was using Pirelli Scorpion >
Hi Zam ,what a trip you made brother !!
can you please help my very narrow understanding how i can do that to my Africa twin ??
bare in your mind i live in Egypt ,not in a European capital where lots of good places that they can work on your bike ,hahahaha
it will help may many Africa twin owners ,if you can get photos ,or even a small clip about how we can do that
cheers ,
and best wishes from Egypt
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  #24  
Old 26 Jun 2012
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Guzzi Wheels.

Does anyone know where I could learn if I can, infact, safely run a 70's Guzzi with their cast alloy wheels without tubes? There are three issues, rim not designed to hold the tyre on alone (is that different from the AT's), edge around the tyre valve unable to hold valve, and alloy being porous to air. Ciao, Lindsay.
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  #25  
Old 26 Jun 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar mansour View Post
Hi Zam ,what a trip you made brother !!
can you please help my very narrow understanding how i can do that to my Africa twin ??
bare in your mind i live in Egypt ,not in a European capital where lots of good places that they can work on your bike ,hahahaha
it will help may many Africa twin owners ,if you can get photos ,or even a small clip about how we can do that
cheers ,
and best wishes from Egypt
Hi Omar, I will try to reply U later 2nite abt midnight (now is abt 8pm local time; time for the kids ... I hope U dont mind my sub-std English, ya? .... but I am not sure how much of me can be of any help, bcos it was done by the workshop (& they kept it as trade secret) ... anyhow, I will try to reply to the best I can later .... sharing is caring

btw, these were the countries in the path of my tubeless


Flag not shown : Singapore
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  #26  
Old 26 Jun 2012
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Quote:
... edge around the tyre valve unable to hold valve
I learned to my surprise that not all TL valves are the same diametre, so perhaps that's your problem?

See the 'Tubeless Valves' paragraph on this page.

But if the rims are porous and not safety types, I would have thought you're much better off with something that is made for TL, maybe off a later Italian bike? With cast wheels and 1970s wheel dims I imagine that will be a bit of a lottery.


PS. Getting back to the safety rim/lip question. Are they needed and why.
I just re-read part of my tubeless report of 3-4 years ago (link above) and saw this:

I also noticed a tell-tale spurt on the front tyre where the Slime fluid inside the tyre squirted out the sides as presumably I hit washed-out creek edges on the Col Belkassim track [Morocco] the day before. The rim was not damaged so this suggested that even on moderate impacts (or possibly too low tyre pressures) the lack of the ‘safety lip’ was indeed allowing the tyre to collapse into the well or somehow lose its grip on the rim and so [briefly] lose pressure; handily this was high lit by the leaking Slime stains.

So there is a reason to use for safety rims when running TL which would not be relevant on tubed; maintaining the TL tyre's seal during edge/kerb impacts where a tubed tyre might just push in and get pushed back by tube pressure. The 'sudden' deflation/tyre comes off the rim scenario following a puncture (as discussed earlier in the thread) is not so relevant as TL tyres don't do that compared to tubed 'blowouts'.
The OE front rim of my XTZ660 was unlipped and gave me problems (on the dirt only), the back was for some reason lipped, and did not.
So for the 'edge-strike/brief air leak' reason, lipped 'safety' rims are definitely a good idea for running TL, even if it makes tyre mounting/removal more difficult.

Last edited by Chris Scott; 26 Jun 2012 at 18:11.
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  #27  
Old 26 Jun 2012
Zam Zam is offline
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Hello Omar (and All). Ok this is my reply to your question, but I am not sure if its of any help

When I 1st bought the AT, the 1st thing I want is to make it into tubeless (TL). The only way I thought it possible was via sport-rims only. Unfortunately the biggest sport-rim available is only 19” (for the front tyre); thus I only convert the rear. Afterall 90% of road nails only ‘luvs’ the rears . The cost? Abt USD$1000 which includes used CB400 Vtec-II rim, sprocket set & chain, used brake assembly & new tyres. It also req’d a custom measured bush, to space the rims into correct off-set (as what I was told by the workshop). The rear tyre size is now 160/60R17.

Couple of mth thereafter I come across another workshop who could mods spoke rims for TL tyre usage at the cost of only USD$150 per rim (exclude TL tyre costs). How they do it I might not know bcos as usual, its their trade secret. Besides, I hv to leave the bike at the workshop for couple of days for the process. But I could see trace of black rubberized material (sealant?) neatly wrap underneath few layers of duct tape. However I did not notice any trace of the rim lips being mods to suit the TL. At early stage, I checked the tyre pressure on daily basis, but there wasn’t any air leak since, despite the distance and the AT speed limits I hv had with it. If only I met this workshop earlier I wld hv mods both rims this way instead.

Nevertheless, as mentioned earlier there are more skeptic by the ‘tradition bogeyman’ worries than believers; it’s individual rights anyway :-)

That’s it
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  #28  
Old 26 Jun 2012
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My experience of having had both tubeless and tubed tyres of the same make fitted to the tubeless rims of my R100GS is that the tubeless tyres are a much tighter fit. I also understand that many rims designed for tubeless tyre fitment have grooves formed into the rim to grip the tyre making them even harder to remove without specialist equipment.

The reason why I changed to tubed tyres was because of the roadside repairability. If you have a small (nail) type of puncture and the tyre does not come off the bead then there is no problem - simply plug it and re-inflate but if the tyre suffers serious damage (due to metal debris on the road) and has to be removed from the rim this is very difficult to do without apprpriate equipment. Although we carried tubes as a back up so once repaired re-inflation is no problem but due to the tight fit again very difficult to get it seated correctly with roadside equipment. Trying to seat and re-inflate a tubeless tyre at the roadside with a bicycle pump would be challenging.

The slow deflation advantage of tubeless tyres is probably not so important to an overland traveller although I can see it would be important when travelling at high speed on a modern sportsbike.

Off road tyres are always tubed type although most trail tyres are available in tubed and tubeless fitments to suit BMW and other spoked wheel that are designed for tubeless tyres.
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  #29  
Old 27 Jun 2012
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The rims of the Africa Twin may not be airtight, but they do have a savety-lip.
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  #30  
Old 30 Jun 2012
Zam Zam is offline
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I noe that I hv download this pix from the net b4 prior doing my tubeless, but seems am not able to locate the site now :-(

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