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Nath 3 Jan 2010 18:18

wild camping in scotland - maybe some inspiration for someone
 
I just stumbled upon a trip report my friends made of a camping trip to scotland last year, which I'd forgotten about.

Lots of photos and the story of 4 guys and a dog going up to scotland on two sidecar outfits and a solo. A lot of people question how easy it is to wild camp without upsetting anyone, but if this ragtag bunch could do it then it can't be that hard, can it?


I didn't write any of it so if you find it boring don't blame me! It was a fun trip and made for a very cheap enjoyable biking holiday. You don't neccessarily have to go far and spend lots of cash to enjoy a little bit of motorcycle adventure

Scotland bash 2008


A couple of the photos:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/steven..../rbz/scot1.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/steven..../rbz/scot2.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/steven..../rbz/scot3.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/steven..../rbz/scot4.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/steven..../rbz/scot5.jpg

*Touring Ted* 3 Jan 2010 21:20

That looks like a fun trip :)


Bring on the spring !

Jim2002 3 Jan 2010 21:30

Great photo's. Not sure about the scuzzy longjohn shots though, some things are best left unshared!

:thumbup1:

David Rowley 4 Jan 2010 03:10

Looks like a fun trip!

See you made it up the Applecross road too. Was there a few years ago with the girlfriend on a 5 day trip around scotland... It was May and the weather had been so bad leading up to it so we took the car... The weather was perfect the whole time!!!! arghh! wish we had taken the bike.

David

Pwyll 7 Jan 2010 20:42

That looks like a fantastic trip!

Is it allowed in Scotland to do wild camping, cause it would seriously cut my expenses down. I've been to Glasgow once last year for the World Pipe Band Championships, a buddy of mine was playing there with their band. I went by motorcycle and arrived at 6.30pm right in time for the prize-giving and actually didn't see 1 band playing. The next day I rode back home (Antwerp-Glasgow-Antwerp in 48 hours) with a little detour around loch lomond and the Trossachs. I vowed to return cause it was to beautiful and this time with a little bit more time on my hands.

When would be the best time to go there, weatherwise?

pictish 7 Jan 2010 23:30

hi there,
with regards to weather summer is your best bet, but the weather can change in 10 miles in a lot of areas of scotland. It also depends on what you want to see, as the hills and forrests change alot during the seasons.
The youth hostels are pretty cheap alternative to camping and the few we have used have been in nice spots. Wild Camping can be a hit or miss, fires are not allowed in most areas, Glens and forrests which have rangers or gamekeepers will move you on and if you try riding any of the forrest tracks again there is good chance either the police or a game keeper will turn up and tell you to sod off.

Knight of the Holy Graal 8 Jan 2010 07:10

Cheers, dude!

This must have been a helluva fun trip...


Congratulations!

mj 10 Jan 2010 14:01

1 Attachment(s)
That looks like a fun trip. We'll be in the UK for about a month in June 2010 and I feel a bit inspired already, taking bits and pieces of information from here and there. That road to Applecross that you're talking about, is that this one between Tornapress and Applecross?

Attachment 2840

In regard to wild camping: didn't the Land Reform Act of 2003 specifically legalize wild camping as long as you play fair, don't leave anything behind, and keep a minimum distance to settlements?

Quote:

The Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 and Scottish Outdoor Access Code came into force on 9th February 2005. The Act establishes a statutory right to camp and the Code describes the responsibilities and best practice guidance that should be followed when exercising your right to camp wild.

Source: MCofS Guide to Wild Camping

I ask because we do plan to camp wild while in Scotland, and, whenever possible, also in England and Wales.

Fastship 10 Jan 2010 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by mj (Post 270982)

In regard to wild camping: didn't the Land Reform Act of 2003 specifically legalize wild camping as long as you play fair, don't leave anything behind, and keep a minimum distance to settlements?


Source: MCofS Guide to Wild Camping

I ask because we do plan to camp wild while in Scotland, and, whenever possible, also in England and Wales.

There are rights and then there are "rights"...

The act does indeed exist and you have the legal rights that are enshrined in the act. However, tradition runs deep, many "locals" are not in favour of the act and if you camp or even walk over land the owner, his employees (game keepers etc) and the local Police don't want you on then they will move you on.

Alas, people in this country are not welcoming to foreigners or indeed people they do not know personally and even then...think of the way gypsies are treated in some parts of central and eastern Europe and that is the welcome you will receive in too many parts of the UK.

Also, in some of the Islands they lock up the children's swings on Sundays lest they "enjoy" themselves on the sabath:(

But hey - when has such things ever stopped people like us? :rofl:

Nath 10 Jan 2010 16:04

Yes that's applecross and the beautiful road leading to it. From the village you can follow the coast up north and come back out on the main road further up. We camped on the beach in the village as there's no other accessible beaches that we could find on that bit of coastline. However the previous year we were warned that the guy that owns the commercial camping site in the village occasionally calls the police and gets people free-camping on the beach moved on.

If you use some common sense and little bit of descretion you should be fine wild camping in Scotland. The two years I've been up there camping I didn't see too many places with 'no camping' signs. A lot of the locals wild camp themselves so don't dissaprove.

England's another matter though. Expect to struggle to find discrete nice spots. And like the above poster said, don't be surprised if you get a negative reaction off locals if someone comes across you. Land owners (famers) can be very hostile to "tresspassers", i've had someone try to start a fight with me before in totally innocent circumstances. If you're dressed up like a typical "adventure motorcyclist" in bmw or touratech type gear, and on a foreign number plate, you might get a warmer reaction. An "old school" biker image will probably not go down quite so well. Sometimes you can camp round the back of village pubs - If you spend some cash in there drinking first. Though some village pubs can be surprisingly posh and/or snobby.

If you like I can mark up a map with a few places I know are good for camping in Scotland, and a couple of commercial camping sites in England.

mj 10 Jan 2010 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nath (Post 270996)
If you like I can mark up a map with a few places I know are good for camping in Scotland, and a couple of commercial camping sites in England.

That would be great and very helpful, I'd really appreciate it.

I wonder tho (maybe that's the German in me): if the law says wild camping is legal how is it possible that the police actually asks you to move on? Or is that one of those rights and "rights" situations? To be honest, from what I've read here Scotland does not seem very friendly and welcoming, and I was actually looking forward to going there and spending some time off the beaten path. But then again Fastship is probably right - when did that ever stop people like us? We'll probably still have a great time and nothing to worry about. :mchappy:

GasUp 11 Jan 2010 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by mj (Post 271038)
To be honest, from what I've read here Scotland does not seem very friendly and welcoming,

That is so very far from the truth.

The Scots are one of the most hospitable people in the UK, but you get out what you put in. Some places have very strick religious undertones, such as the Islands, but then again treat it as you would visiting anywhere, with understanding and respect. When in Rome, as they say!

I visit Scotland every year, on numerous occasions and I've never ever had a bad experience with people being un-friendly, apart from some English people who take thier 'city life' attitude with them.

I've wild camped on occasion, and treat it like I would wild camp anywhere. be discrete, clear up and alway have a firendly nad open outlook to others. B&B's, hotels and Guest Houses offer a great way to get into the minds of the locals. In Skye I was given some ideas of where to camp from a Guest House owner.

There is a difference between 'wild camping' and what some Gypsy's are doing (staying for weeks). This is probably the basis for any bad will, in my opinion it's fine to wild camp overnight, but when it becomes two or three days in the same spot it's not really in the spirit of it.

Fastship 11 Jan 2010 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by mj (Post 271038)
That would be great and very helpful, I'd really appreciate it.

I wonder tho (maybe that's the German in me): if the law says wild camping is legal how is it possible that the police actually asks you to move on? Or is that one of those rights and "rights" situations? To be honest, from what I've read here Scotland does not seem very friendly and welcoming, and I was actually looking forward to going there and spending some time off the beaten path. But then again Fastship is probably right - when did that ever stop people like us? We'll probably still have a great time and nothing to worry about. :mchappy:

Hey don't let what I say put you off. Scotland is a spectacular and beautiful place you will love it (despite some of the people!) and you are correct, there is a difference between a German foreigner and being an English foreigner. The english are despised by some people in Scotland and they ensure you know this but I don't think this would apply to a German person.

Don't even get me started on the Welsh and the Taffy Taleban!!! :rofl:

Re. the Police, what they say goes. End of.

I heard an explanation of why some of the more remote communities in Scotland dislike strangers, the introduction of new ideas and experiences into an isolated, rigidly controlled, closed society was one but another was a natural wariness of new people who brought common diseases into an isolated community that had low resistance due to their isolation and this manifested in (unconcious) unfriendliness. I think this would apply to many places around the world.

At least in Wales the sheep are friendly :eek3:

mj 11 Jan 2010 11:49

1 Attachment(s)
Friendly sheep.... interesting. I remember Irish sheep and they were fecking idiots :biggrin:

Attachment 2841

Anyway, I'm not scared yet. I find that you get what you put in actually describes my personal experience best. There are always some people who will try to make your life as miserable as possible, but they exist everywhere. And it does depend where you're at and where you're from, because there are animosities between certain groups and nations. That never stopped me from being generally friendly and smiling when encountering new people tho - I find a smile opens more doors than anything else, and once the doors are open you meet the actual person behind the facade we call nationality.

Thanks everybody for clearing this up. Not that it would've kept us from going to Scotland but it might have rendered me a bit insecure when approaching locals. Thus, I would like to withdraw my previous statement about the lack of Scottish friendliness. I should've known that an English person would not speak well of Scots in the same way that a German person would not speak well of Austrians, or a <insert-random-nationality-here> of the French :tongue3:

bodie 11 Jan 2010 20:56

Hi i can only comment by my experiance how friendly scotland is ,three trips in the last two years two of them solo and iv had a great welcome either in B+B or camping one evening when id left it quite late after enjoying the deserted roads i couldnt find a B+B with any rooms left i asked if i could pitch my tent in the croft behind the cottage ,no problem the land lady then offered me use of facilities did me a bowl of soup offered me breakfast the next morning and i put my bike in the workshop all for a few pounds there were a couple of lads staying locally and i got asked to go fishing next day which i did seeing some small lochs you cant see from the road and by the way ae kept along shores below sight of local houses i take it you may have called it poaching i felt it rude to ask any way .some of the campsites such as applecross have an honesty box so if you arrive late and leave early you can leave ur payment it just adds to the laid back way .Enjoy your trip you will love it ROB

Pwyll 12 Jan 2010 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fastship (Post 271088)
Don't even get me started on the Welsh and the Taffy Taleban!!! :rofl:

Er... please do because I'll be going to Wales this April.
Anything I should know about the people there? Do I need bearspray? Or worse a sword and shield? Or some kind of cloaking device to keep myself invisible?
We're coming over with a couple of friends. They've been talking about B&B's. But I'd rather be camping, a lot cheaper though.
Any must-sees?

I also had a good impression of the scots, really friendly.
There are unfriendly people all over the planet. It's not that they concentrate on certain places. Met some really friendly people in France.

Fastship 13 Jan 2010 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pwyll (Post 271319)
Er... please do because I'll be going to Wales this April.
Anything I should know about the people there? Do I need bearspray? Or worse a sword and shield? Or some kind of cloaking device to keep myself invisible?
We're coming over with a couple of friends. They've been talking about B&B's. But I'd rather be camping, a lot cheaper though.
Any must-sees?

I also had a good impression of the scots, really friendly.
There are unfriendly people all over the planet. It's not that they concentrate on certain places. Met some really friendly people in France.


Again, Wales, especially North Wales and the Snowdonia National Park is simply breathtaking and most of the people are really nice but in this case there are two problems we face. The first is the real antipathy the Welsh (mainly in the north) have for English visitors which manifests itself in such ways as refusal to serve you in a shop unless you speak Welsh to them even though they were speaking English to each other when you entered the shop (this is local shop for local people - https://www.thisisalocalshop.com ) and I have had this so often it just gets boring. Every bilingual road sign has the English word crossed or sprayed out and replaced with some anti English obscenity. Also I speak as someone who spent much of their childhood growing up in Glan Conwy so I have some perspective on the Welsh. I have also had my bike kicked over once by a group of local yokels. In days gone by there was a spate of arson attacks on English second homes in Wales too.


A much great problem for bikers is the extreme harassment of bikers by the police which is top down and very real. The recently retired chief constable Brunstrom who obviously had a screw loose implemented a campaign to "actively dissuade" bikers from entering HIS territory. On Sundays de facto road blocks were set up on the major routes into Wales where you would see as many as 70 bikes stopped in a lay-by where each bike was closely examined one by one by a police officer for offences so the you were held up for half the day or even had your bike confiscated in some instances. Speed cameras proliferate and limits are enforced with a draconian zealotry. In case you think I am exaggerating consider that in an anti bike campaign Brunstrom used photographs at a press & media conference of a deceased biker (from my home town) to illustrate his campaign. The pictures he used were of the rider's crash helmet. His head was still in it. In the presentation Chief Superintendent Geraint Anwyl said the head was torn off by the force of the impact, he explained: "His oxygenated brain went flying down the road for 50 metres, before he expired. It's horrific, I'm sure you'll agree." The gruesome images were shown to journalists and local authority representatives but only one or two of the the family of the deceased biker ( a Mr. Gibney) knew the exact circumstance of the accident, for obvious reasons they had concealed the details from his mother and close family but now without even consulting the family his head was paraded by this "police officer" for the media for his own bigoted purposes. The family of Mr Gibney were distraught. He was entirely unapologetic. This episode drew parallels to the beheading videos the taliban post on the internet and together with the xenophobia (admittedly mostly towards the English) is the origin of the phrase "Taffy Taliban" and Brunstrom became know as the "Mad Mullah". He had the word Police removed from evey police vehicle and replaced it with the welsh "Heddlu" describing police as "An English-speaking army of occupation." Watch out for this word if you do go to Wales - you will encounter it often on a bike. Oh and during this time (real) crime levels in North Wales soared to record levels.

For the above reasons I have no hesitation in telling everybody I can to AVOID North Wales and hit them where it hurts - in the pocket so the campsites, guest houses, petrol stations, shops and entire economy of that place knows that there are real consequences to the actions of the people they vote for and the actions of the red necks who masquerade as police in that place.

Consider the Lake District? It's about the same size as North Wales, ace biking and very pretty. I would recommend Scotland over Wales anyway, it is much larger, less populated and even more spectacular. The food is better and they make whiskey. Have fun.


All's I want to do is ride my bike in peace. :scooter:

GasUp 13 Jan 2010 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fastship (Post 271388)
Consider the Lake District? It's about the same size as North Wales, ace biking and very pretty.

It's true, this is a great place, great people (if I do say so myself!), great food, awesum scenery, good roads (when you get away from the one or two busy routes) and did I mention the scenery ? Lot's of camping, but you'll have to pay! (not much wild camping to be had around here), and we have harder sheep than the Welsh!

mj 14 Jan 2010 11:08

Fastship: how are foreigners treated in North Wales? Do these few xenophobic a**holes make sure that you're British before they discriminate against you, or do they discriminate against anything that is not Welsh?

Fastship 14 Jan 2010 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by mj (Post 271576)
Fastship: how are foreigners treated in North Wales? Do these few xenophobic a**holes make sure that you're British before they discriminate against you, or do they discriminate against anything that is not Welsh?


The police - everyone on a bike

The Welsh - only the English (and only some of the Welsh are like this but it is them that make themselves noticed)

mj 14 Jan 2010 12:05

I wonder how the police would react if they'd stop me and I'd pretend that I only speak German, no English at all ;)

Thanks for that, I'll keep my eyes open while in the area (if we'll end up in that area at all).

spooky 14 Jan 2010 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by mj (Post 271587)
I wonder how the police would react if they'd stop me and I'd pretend that I only speak German, no English at all ;)

Thanks for that, I'll keep my eyes open while in the area (if we'll end up in that area at all).

You in definitely have to keep your eyes open all the time, that's for sure !!!

in 2001 my mate (UK citizen) and I (UK resident with German nationality), did our "1st big" bike trip all around the UK's national parks.. starting off in south Wales... both of us on UK registered ex-MoD-Army bikes...
I agree the south of Wales is very pretty and we had no problems with the cops at all and folks are friendly.. but riding further north... well that's a whole different story...
on a beautiful Sunday we got stopped behind a bend, pulled over by a Policeman in to a to car-park at a beautify spot... there was a whole trap set up special for biker's with several cops on every road that routed around that crossroad... imagine us... two bloke's on NATO green Enduro bikes, fully loaded with panniers and bags all made up from MoD green canvas... and a cop with £-signs in his face...

as soon we stopped he ordered us to get of the bike and starting poking around the bikes... we both had registration plates in a non-legal size (to small) and additional to that the letters of the plate where to small and to tight together too...

all this together is a big issue in Wales... the Wales Cops are specially hunting down Enduro bikes regarding there often small registration plates !

But as the Police man asked me to present my driving licence... I handed him over my "German" driving licence... (yes the old big grey one from 1978)
he just looked at it and must have been quite shocked... I could see his face dropping down badly disappointed, about all the hassle of paperwork involved in writing me a ticket... so he immediately got fed up with bothering us and let us go our way fast, by reminding us to change the plates as soon as possible.

so ... yes you have to look out, specially on nice weekends.. but you will get away with a lot if you either are foreigner and/or travelling on foreign registered bikes.

wish you all the luck... you gona need it in north Wales !

spooky

silver G 14 Jan 2010 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by GasUp (Post 271398)
It's true, this is a great place, great people (if I do say so myself!), great food, awesum scenery, good roads (when you get away from the one or two busy routes) and did I mention the scenery ? Lot's of camping, but you'll have to pay! (not much wild camping to be had around here), and we have harder sheep than the Welsh!

.....and don't forget the Yorkshire Dales where you will receive a warm welcome and there is some wild camping.:thumbup1:

spooky 14 Jan 2010 18:14

Scotland... yea it's a grate place to ride a bike, specially around the highlands and there mountains up in the north absolute stunning along the cost.

by the way... this small narrow and bended country lanes... take care not being to fast, be aware of any obstruction suddenly to appear in the middle of the road around any corner in form of this red fury "Highland cows" as I experienced more than ones first hand... yes this beasts with there long and wide horns just blocking the lanes and don't move an inch out of the way... you in definitely don't want to run in to one of them at all... much worth than a roe deer.... so take care.

other than that.... I would go there again and again....
when it comes to Scotsman's in human form... yea... any time, best company you can experience, specially if you are not "English" but German (sorry for saying this.. no offence to the English guys "you are my 2nd choice of company" and Germans come at the very last) but yea... I must say the most fun and best laugher I always get with a bunch of Scots and a few pints... if I got to choice between a table in a pub between one occupied by Scots or English flaging drinker... well I will settle with the Scots any where in the world straight away... and it would be ending up in between both of this tables having the best fun out of both worlds and grate time with all of of them together, uniting all pisstaking and self irony in a big collective over all fun !

"don't mention the war"... :rofl:

GasUp 15 Jan 2010 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by spooky (Post 271643)
by the way... this small narrow and bended country lanes... take care not being to fast, be aware of any obstruction suddenly to appear in the middle of the road around any corner in form of this red fury "Highland cows" as I experienced more than ones first hand... yes this beasts with there long and wide horns just blocking the lanes and don't move an inch out of the way... you in definitely don't want to run in to one of them at all... much worth than a roe deer.... so take care.

Like this !

http://www.smokingtailpipes.com/Gall...esday09-19.JPG

I came around the corner to find this looking straight at me, didn't move a muscle till I got the camera out!!

mj 15 Jan 2010 08:38

Good to know, thanks. They sound much like the sheep in Ireland.

spooky 15 Jan 2010 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by GasUp (Post 271722)

this road singe.... "Skeeray" is not by any changes the old Scottish phonetic spelling for "scary" or a local hint for it ?

grizzly7 15 Jan 2010 20:18

MJ "Do these few xenophobic a**holes make sure that you're British"- the Welsh ARE British!!!

Just to add a little balance, I've been to Wales perhaps 50 or 60 times in the last 25 years. Anything from a daytrip to the Red Bull MTB route to a fortnight in the Snowdonia National Park (the Snowdon Horseshoe in March in misty snow will never be forgotton!), a trackday on Anglesey, to a caravan family holiday near St Davids Head, to getting very muddy on beemers with Simon Pavey near Ystalyfera, to watching Wales play Scotland in Cardiff. There has been the odd change of language in a shop or two, but that has been far outweighed by the genuine friendlyness and hospitality I've received throughout the country. :D:D

It was once pointed out to me the old song "There'll be a welcome in the hillside" suggests thats the only place Wales would welcome an Englishman i.e. no way in their homes, but that was from someone who would probably find trouble wherever he went! :nono:

IronArse 6 Mar 2011 16:58

Hey folks, very interesting little thread here. Just wondering, I'm hitting over from Ireland to London at the end of march on business, but this thread has made me want to hit on up to Scotland after it. What's the weather like, temperature-wise in early April? Would I be mad to want to wild camp up there then? A small few not-to-be-missed spots too, anyone?

bilimanjaro 6 Mar 2011 18:41

me and the mr's had fifteen nights wildcamping up there last may,in the camper ..
i stopped over one nite onlies and they were all on rspb reserves and natural scotland sites..only bother i got was from an english farmer..who was a bit stroppy.but i still stayed the night..found all the sites from a AA 2008 map..
if you google [wild camping for motorhomes] loads of great info on there..
when i first joined up a lad on there put all the wildcamping spots in the uk,which you downloaded to google..
you can still get them but now you have to pay..............

geordie_e 6 Mar 2011 23:13

Ironarse

I think you would be mad unless you enjoyed really cold nights !!

We go to Scotland every 1st bank holiday in May and stay in the wigwams/henhouses. Some nights get really cold with quite a bit of ground frost, however you dont get the midges... so thats a benefit lol

Cheers
Geordie

gixxer.rob 7 Mar 2011 04:49

Scotland
 
I lived in Scotland for about 2.5 years and I would echo most of what has been said here. A lot of Scots are holding onto their hatred of the English and unless you are "obviously" not from England you can sometimes feel the coolness feelings. God forbid that you have someone English with you either. I grew quite tired of it in the end but it is not the rule for everybody in every place you go.

When the weather is fine, it is truly a beautiful place with sites to see around every corner, it's just that the reception can be as cool as the weather sometimes.

That's my 2 cents worth.

IronArse 7 Mar 2011 11:42

Hey Geordie, cheers, I'll take that advice and put my sanest foot forward and leave my camping gear at home. Still looking forward to it though!

ullukk 12 Mar 2011 12:02

The north west of scotland is by far the best part of the uk, (in my opinion mind), even in the summer it can sometimes feel like you've got the place to yourself, i love it!! over the last 20 years or so i've visited scotland on biking do's, family holidays and even with work and i can say i've never had an issue with locals, it is fairly obvious by my accent that i'm english but i've found that if your friendly and polite they are the same with you. on the subject of the welsh, i've had no probelms in wales either, granted i haven't been there as much as scotland but i've enjoyed myself all the same, yes i've been in a north welsh pub where all the locals have been speaking welsh, so what!!, as far as i'm aware they teach it as their first language in schools anyway so your bound to hear it, i've heard french people speaking french, spanish speaking spanish etc etc!. No probelm.


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