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-   -   Warning for GPS with speedcameras in France (http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/europe/warning-for-gps-speedcameras-france-62864)

jkrijt 23 Feb 2012 22:25

Warning for GPS with speedcameras in France
 
Just this afternoon I saw an article in a paper that there is a new law in France. If you have a GPS system with speedcamera locations, you get a € 1500 fine ! even when it is switched off.

crapxxxx 23 Feb 2012 23:18

Yep, they have indeed. But I would put money on it being an almost un-enforceable law. Unless you do something stupid I cant see the French Fuzz doing random stops to check sat navs. Most sensible people will disable it anyway while in France.
I'm more worried about the introduction of High viz vests.

backofbeyond 24 Feb 2012 10:30

I've heard about this and I've also read other reports saying that it only applies to radar detectors - that is machines that actively detect the radar emissions and not to sat-navs just with camera locations as poi's. Anyone with more info?

Tony P 24 Feb 2012 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by backofbeyond (Post 368783)
I've heard about this and I've also read other reports saying that it only applies to radar detectors - that is machines that actively detect the radar emissions and not to sat-navs just with camera locations as poi's. Anyone with more info?

The French prohibition on radar detectors has been in place for half a dozen or so years. The offence is to have them in the car - switched on or off, using them or not. Rather like having drugs - you have them you're done, using them is immaterial.

I was recently alerted to this new rule prohibiting having speed camera locations in a device (operating or not) is now also an offence.

Next it will be an offence to remember where they were from the last time you went that way!

Bertrand 24 Feb 2012 11:23

and an incoming new law in France for all drivers (guessing this to mean anyone in charge of a motor vehicle) to carry a breathalyser....

so check list now could be read as...
  • Hiviz jacket
  • Warning triangle
  • Bulb set
  • Spare tyre and/or kit availability to repair puncture inc. inflator pump.
  • First aid kit
  • Fire extinguisher
  • Certificate of Insurance
  • V5
  • und so weiter und so weiter...
:innocent: how many more kilos O' Lord , how many more kilos....

OK OK I'll get my coat...:blushing:

grizzly7 24 Feb 2012 13:24

Hi

The last thing I read about HiViz in France suggested you needed 150 square cm of reflective stuff, the aim being to insist bikers wear a hiviz ARMBAND at least. A fair few jackets may have that amount of reflective stuff on it anyway perhaps?

From Hi-vis gear compulsory in France from next year - | Motorcycle News | Bike News | Motorbike Videos | MCN

"Motorcyclists in France face compulsory high visibility clothing from next year.
The French government is pushing ahead with plans for compulsory hi-vis riding gear despite protests.
From January 1 2013, riders of bikes over 125cc will have to wear a reflective item of clothing under the French version of the Highway Code.
The reflective area must be on the upper body and cover at least 150 square centimetres. The requirement will apply to riders and pillions and is likely to affect foreigners travelling in France.
Failure to comply could lead to a fine of €68."

People seem to link the hiviz vest required in cars etc to bikes too easily? I may be wrong though? Or could you just put a 125cc sticker on the side of your 1200GS so they wouldn't look at you in the first place? ;)

I think Garmin and TomTom offer updates for databases with the illegal bits removed, or renamed as dangerous junctions etc. I suppose that also means a road map from last year will also be illegal? So all the people heading to Le Mans this year will have a fine and their maps and gps's confiscated on the way, and be lost in France forever?!?!?!?! Doomed!!!!

(Does that also mean that the police will have to confiscate your car if the gps with camera locations is built in?! ;))


:)

ta-rider 24 Feb 2012 16:23

Well at least Garmin Navis can be protected with a password so in case you get stoped you switch it of. I dont think they can fource you to give them the password (like in england if you are useing TrueCrypt on your PC) so they cant proof you are using Speed POIs :)

Bertrand 24 Feb 2012 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ta-rider (Post 368824)
. I don't think they can force you to give them the password

I've got bad news for you Toby- The Law in France is that everyone is GUILTY until proven innocent.doh

So if you block access with a password.......

Redboots 24 Feb 2012 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bertrand (Post 368843)
I've got bad news for you Toby- The Law in France is that everyone is GUILTY until proven innocent.doh

So if you block access with a password.......

The Gendarmes do not have any right to enter your car and look at your GPS or phone. Only the Douane can do that with special permission... and you don't mess with them feckers:nono:

The GPS speed cams are not illegal, though they are now called danger zones or some such nonsense.
The radar DETECTORS, ie. a device that actively finds a camera is illegal.
The Kyote type of units are legal and still being sold.

Hi-viz tabbards are not required to be worn OR carried by bikes over 125cc.

Some sort of reflective/hi-viz armband will be required from next Jan... unless we change their minds.

Rego/insurance/license - you are required to carry these.

It's so much fun living here:scooter:

Cheers,
John

Tony P 24 Feb 2012 22:44

John. Thanks for clarifying "from the horses mouth" if you don't object to the expression ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redboots (Post 368857)
... unless we change their minds.

All things are possible.

The French moto fraternity had a spectacular protest success many years back by getting Autoroute tolls reduced from 100% of the car rate to about 55%.

My Autoroute toll protest continues.
At manned toll booths - I stop - switch off engine - remove visor - (and helmet, switch off i-pod and remove ear phones or ear plugs, if feeling particularly bloody minded and there are long queues) - smile and go through usual French introductory pleasantries - remove gloves - unzip jacket - unzip overtrouser top - find money in inner trouser pocket - carefully count it out - carefully check change and receipt - put remaining money, change and receipt in inner trouser pocket - zip up over trousers - zip up jacket - replace ear phones/plugs and helmet (if previously removed) - put on gloves - offer my thanks and farewells - adjust visor - start engine - carefully move forward.

It could be slightly faster at the automatic ticket issue machines on entrance - but here I often managed to thwart them by hugging the kerb and avoiding the under road vehicle sensors and have to press the Assistance button and wait for an English speaker - expressing total confusion as to why the machine will not issue a ticket/raise the barrier!
If raining it takes double the time because of wet cold gloves and hands :)

Hooting from behind of course prompts dismounting (and all that that entails) enquiring looks and searches as to what may be wrong - something loose on the bike? Flat tyre?

Unless I am in a hurry that is, otherwise I enjoy every minute of the long process as a break in the monotony before and after the toll point.

All in the vain hope that one day, if enough motos did the same they might 'get the p r i c k of us' low revenue sources and in the interests of traffic flow (and quicker cash collection) they let solos go free through a dedicated narrow gap.

Over 6 days around Bol d'Or weekend they used to exempt motos on all toll Autoroutes all over France by having a narrow special lane - now (last time there at that time) sadly only on the adjoining autoroutes and for a far shorter period. It was originally felt better for safety and noise reasons to encourage the huge numbers of motos from all over Europe to use Autoroutes instead of other roads through towns and villages - but no longer it seems.

Redboots 25 Feb 2012 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony P (Post 368877)
My Autoroute toll protest continues.

Top Man:thumbup1:

+1

John

-ralph- 27 Feb 2012 22:21

I'm not going to translate word for word, but these are the highlights from an interview with a motoring solicitor:

La r�glementation r�gissant les radars That's a linky to my source, decide for yourself if you believe it.

Un décret de la sécurité routière N°2012-3 publié au Journal Officiel du 4 janvier 2012 vient modifier l'article R413-15 du code de la route qui prohibait déjà les détecteurs de radar en interdisant dorénavant la possession, le transport et l'utilisation des « avertisseurs de radars ». Ce décret aggrave les sanctions visant l'usage ou la possession de tels appareils en faisant passer le nombre de retrait de points du permis de conduire de deux à 6. Indiquons également que la contravention pour une telle infraction est de 1500 euros d’amende.
De plus cette infraction peut entrainer des peines complémentaires telles : la suspension, pour une durée de trois ans au plus du permis de conduire, la confiscation du véhicule, lorsque le dispositif qui a servi ou était destiné à commettre l'infraction est placé, adapté ou appliqué sur un véhicule. Précisons enfin la confiscation du dispositif qui a servi ou était destiné à commettre l'infraction.


This is discussing the new law surrounding radar detectors, or more accurately a modification to the existing law. These continue to be illegal to be carried, but the endorsement increases from 2 penalty points to 6 and the fine will be EUR1500. It can also lead to additional punishment such as a 3 year ban, confiscation of the vehicle, or removal of equipment installed in a vehicle.

Les GPS et autres smartphones sont-ils illégaux ?
Réponse de Maître FARAJALLAH, Avocat au Barreau de Paris (Avocat Permis de Conduire - Cabinet de passy - Défense du Permis annulé, permis suspendu par un avocat automobile) :
Les GPS (Tom Tom et autres) et smartphones indiquant la présence de radars sont aussi concernés par ce nouveau texte : qu’ils soient dans la boîte à gants ou en évidence, ils sont devenus illégaux dès lors qu’ils permettent d’indiquer la présence de radars fixes ou mobiles. Il est donc nécessaire de les mettre à jour ou de désactiver la fonction permettant de connaître la présence des radars fixes ou mobiles sous peine de verbalisation.
Le Ministre de l’intérieur a annoncé qu’une « tolérance pédagogique » serait d’abord mise en place par les forces de l’ordre. La durée de cette tolérance n’a pas été fixée.


GPS such as TomTom or smartphones are also covered by the new law. It is illegal to carry these, either on display or in the glovebox, they are illegal if they indicate the presence of fixed or mobile speed cameras. It is necessary to carry out a software update, or deactivate the function allowing you to detect fixed or mobile speed cameras otherwise you will be fined. The will be a tolerance in place where police will educate, but the duration of this tolerance has not been set.


En pratique, la fouille dans le smartphone ou le GPS par les forces de l’ordre est-elle possible ?
Dans la pratique, les forces de l’ordre n’ont pas le droit de fouiller le téléphone ou le GPS à la recherche de l’infraction. Ce n’est que dans le cas d’une infraction flagrante ou après autorisation judiciaire, qu’une telle possibilité de fouille est possible.
Ainsi, en cas de contrôle routier, les forces de l’ordre ne pourront fouiller l’appareil et se lancer dans son apprentissage à la recherche du délit sans l’assentiment du conducteur.
En revanche, rouler avec une carte des radars imprimée n’a rien d’illégal …


In practice, police will not have the right to search your GPS or smartphone device to determine an infraction. Only in the case of a flagrant offence or following a judicial authorisation, may they be searched. The police cannot search the device without the consent of the driver. Paper maps printed with camera locations are not illegal.

Tony P 27 Feb 2012 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by -ralph- (Post 369216)
Paper maps printed with camera locations are not illegal.

So continually looking down at an unfolded map spread across ones lap is OK.
Keeping your eyes on the road but listening for a beep from the Sat Nav is not.

Once again proof it is all about money, not road safety.


Thanks for the translation.

Walkabout 27 Feb 2012 23:55

The old detector works best
 
Just have to carry on relying on the saving grace --
The French hate Le Flick and almost all vehicles coming toward you that have passed a police radar speed system will be flashing their headlight(s) like crazy; there is no mistaking it!!
I am told that this is itself illegal, but that doesn't stop the French motorist.

I call it a speed "system" because Le Flick always seem to be there in large numbers - more than one vehicle, quite a few policemen, and women sometimes, standing about looking fairly bored but managing to pass the time of day.
Their radar detector is often pretty prominent also; a big thing on a tripod. Unfortunately, they are reputed to have a range of a few km so the oncoming drivers/riders will be flashing their lights for quite a long way along the highway.

Hope this helps, just a little. :thumbup1:

Edit; of course, this does not work at all on the motorways

Tony P 28 Feb 2012 06:30

But other motorists don't bother to flash to warn you of fixed camera sites - which is what is all most Sat Navs can tell you about.
(back to square one!)


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