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  #1  
Old 18 Jul 2006
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Arrow The Hannibal trail

hi,

i believe that it is possible to ride a trail that follows the root the Hannibal took over the Alps when he invaded Italy all those years back... i seem to remember that the Italian end is near Turin but i looking for any information regarding it. where the other end is, has anyone ridden it, what condition is the trail in, how long is it you know the normal stuff. thinking of doing a trip September.

is anyone able to help
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  #2  
Old 1 Aug 2006
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still need help

come on, some one must know something...? please
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  #3  
Old 1 Aug 2006
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Thumbs down Hannibal trail?

Trail bikes destroy trails.....
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  #4  
Old 2 Aug 2006
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i'm sorry...

Not if ridden responsibly!

All our old county roads, in the UK, that are now paved where tracks that cut there way through the country. That why some of them have really high banks that have been warn away over 100's of years. The Pennine way, that is only one to walkers, has constantly been repaired due to ware, and that just walking boots.

There is nothing wrong with something wearing, it's the governments and councils responsibility to keep the trails in repair . we pay enough Tax. and it is an enjoyable thing to ride trails.

i agree that irresponsible ridding does damage things whether it's speeding or knobiles on a green lane, but we can't take this stance that unless it's 'PC' it not right!

I've been green laneing in Landys and on bikes for ages and enjoy my right to do it. if something is illegal then i won't ride it, but please don't assume I'm irresponsible because i enjoy to ride on trails.

please feel free to comment!
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  #5  
Old 6 Aug 2006
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Hannibal Trail

Hi Daves...
sounds interesting...research is called for here.

France does have lots of great trails to ride. I never thought of Hannibal's Trail, and your question got me curious. There are a few companies that offer hiking or trekking tours and mountain bike tours on parts of what they assume to be a Route Hannibal might have taken.

If there is such an Enduro Route for this, it is probably a bit of a local secret, as the Alps, (in South Tirol it is so), quite a few are legally closed now due to 'over population' and environmental questions.

To this day Hannibal's Route is still not really known. Did he take the South Route or the Northern one?

However it was, the following link has infos to the possible Pass crossings Hannibal possibly coud have used,
and from this Website and the infos therein you can surely put something together for your venture, that will suit your ideas and also be in the framework of environmental legality.
Originally it did go from Spain into France, up over the Alps into Italy, Turin area.

So, the Link: http://www.livius.org/ha-hd/hannibal/alps.html

Enjoy your research and then the ride! Good Luck.

silverwolf
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Old 7 Aug 2006
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Thanks!

thanks so much for this, really helpful and will help with my trip.

i also got this reply from one of the other forum I've been using, it might be interesting? http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...34#post3062334

if i can ask some advice, seeing as you live in Austria, when is the latest time of year that i would be able to ride Alpine Passes, if you know?

once again, thanks!
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Old 7 Aug 2006
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Latest time to ride Alpine Passes

Hi Daves...
thanks for the Link regarding the Hannibal Trail thing...

To your question about latest time for riding Alpine Passes:
a good question .
Generally, you can ride most Passes into mid Oktober til the end of October.
Depends on when the winter =snow, ice = comes in.

Sometimes it is a bit earlier. Have been riding the Alps for 26-7 years now,
experience shows that around mid August, a change towards Fall weather, sometimes weather crashes and the likes, take place. The early Fall, September and first half of October can be better than July or August, at higher altitudes sometimes. Have experienced riding up one side to a Pass in sunshine and coming down the other side in snow in July.

Have ridden around the Alps the end of October once in a while and the going was good.

Regards from Vienna,
silverwolf
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  #8  
Old 11 Aug 2006
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thanks.

thanks again. very helpful. have you got a trip planed this year?
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  #9  
Old 14 Aug 2006
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Thanks. ...have you got a trip planed this year?

Hi Daves...
Just got in from a jaunt to the Czech Border, and back thru the mountains, down to and along the Danube and back to Vienna with my Hack...long weekend ride.

To your question...
'have you got a trip planed this year?'

have one for the end of August, around 10 days or so into September...

the route would be the following:
Austrian country mountain roads down and into Friaul of Italy, over to Slovenia and down to Croatia's Istria and a couple of Isles there...Cres, Losinj and Krk.

Returning would be back up thru the Slovenian country-side, over the Slovenian-Austrian Border Pass, Seeberg Sattel...less traffic, if any at all...and up thru the Austrian-Hungarian Border area...tis beautiful those country roads...and not much traffic there either...

Slovenia is beautiful, and those little country roads are a good ride...there are some wonderful hidden guesthouses and the hospitality and friendliness is refreshing there. Most of the time, you don't need reservations either. ...
Nature pure. Very clean and most rustical...lovely.

Austria has many little country roads too, and there is generally no problem there with overnights. In the hidden places, the folks are also real friendly and inquisitive I have found.

Also, note on the side, love to ride Greece...terrific scenery and culture... food is fabulous...as in Croatia and Slovenia.

Greetings,
silverwolf
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  #10  
Old 17 Aug 2006
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this sounds great, i'd love to live n the continent. out a matter of interest one of the landrover magazine has an article about the Hannibal trail with some off road trails, i'm going to find out and post some info
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  #11  
Old 19 Aug 2006
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In this months (September issue) LRO (Land ROver Owner) magazine there is the first of a 2 part atricle on driving the Hannibal Trail.
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  #12  
Old 22 Aug 2006
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Hannibal

I will check my info as I have a book on Hannibal at home, but from memory the route that best fits his description (according to that particular author, Dodge) goes through what is now Chambery, Albertville, Moutiers, Bourg St Maurice. On the other side of Bourg St Maurice, about 2 - 3kms past the centre, there is a small village called Seez. From there you take a left ... from memory there is a battered sign pointing to the Col du Petit St Bernard (Little St Bernard Pass).

The Italian side of the pass the road is dramatic and full of switchbacks and follows Hannibals path (the only logical path) through to Aosta and Ivrea before coming out in near Turin.

I am not aware of an enduro trail, its all paved road. And as someone above wrote, his route is still widely debated. There is no consensus. Dodge, who advocated the Col du Petit St Bernanrd spent 2 years crossing every France - Italy pass in the alps and is utterly convinced that was the route, while a read of the following article (http://www.latimes.com/travel/destin...-travel-europe) says another historian also crossed every pass from France to Italy and his conclusion is that the Col de la Traversette can be the only one ... so take your pick mate.
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  #13  
Old 22 Aug 2006
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By a quirk of coincidence, I'm was actually planning to go that way in a couple of weeks. I shall be heading from London to Milan on the week beginning 3/9 and plan to arrive in Milan on the 7th, so I should be around that region on the 6th and 7th if you want to hook up. By another coincidence, I was just arguing with a friend about how many elephants made it to Italy. He insisted that none made it alive, and I insisted it was a few, but according to a variety of sources, Hannibal had 15 elephants at the Battle of Trebbia, so that solves that argument. Of course, one has to take into consideration that Hannibal didn't stop at Turin and actually fought multiple battles with the Romans right throughout Italy, so where the trail ends is a matter of debate (History graduate speaking - old habits die hard).
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  #14  
Old 24 Aug 2006
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it seems a very interesting can of worms that I've opened.

i'm looking forward to the rind in the next few month/week depending on things this end. i guess to be sure you go one way and come back the other?

sorry not being a historian, while i know that Hannibal gave the Romans a good kicking but didn't win, did he make it back home and again i'm not sure where home for him was apart from somewhere in northern Africa (but this might be wrong)

any thanks.
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  #15  
Old 24 Aug 2006
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Post A *very* brief history of the Second Punic Wars

Hannibal was born and raised in New Carthage in Spain which is now known as Cartagena. He was a Carthaginian nobleman and when young swore a blood oath to kill all Romans. The Carthaginians were a numerous and prosperous people from Phoenician stock (hence "Punic") who operated out of Carthage in modern day Tunisia.

Hannibal marched some 40,000 men and 37 elephants from New Carthage to Northern Italy losing up to 20,000 men and 22 elephants in the Alps, but still managed to defeat the Romans in numerous battles up and down the peninsular starting at the battle of Trebia (near modern Piacenza) and finally annihilating them at the battle of Cannae (near modern Foggia - I think).

After this, the Romans were humiliated and effectively had to reassess their entire military structure, raising unknown Lieutenant Scipio to be General and asking him, after various campiagns agaisnt the Carhtaginians in Spain, to tackle Hannibal. Scipio began attacking the Carthaginians in Carthage and Hannibal was recalled to defend the capital. Scipio defeated him (using similar tactics) at the battle of Zama (in modern day Tunisia).

Most of that is from memory, but for a better version try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Punic_War

Edit: I should probably mention the famous "Fabian Strategy" which Rome adopted after the battle of Cannae. This basically involved avoiding direct confrontation with Hannibal whilst Rome took time to recover. This literally consisted of avoiding direct army to army confrontation, but did allow for small raids and skirmishes by smaller forces to slow Hannibals progress across Italy.
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