Russia and Baltic countries. Any tips/recommendations?
 

Hi all,

I'm going to do a tour of Western Russia and the Baltic countries this summer. I'll fly to Moscow and rent a bike there, then follow this route:

Moscow > St. Petersburg > Estonia > Latvia > Lithuania > back to Latvia > Russian border > Moscow. (see map here)

For a total of around 3000Km in 13 days (25/07 to 06/08)

A number of questions come to mind and maybe some more seasoned riders can share their wisdom:

- Road police: any tips regarding those, particularly in Russia?
- Docs: the bike is Russian and insured to travel all over Europe and I'll bring my IDP. Anything else I should bring?
- Borders: Anything I should keep in mind crossing into the EU and back to mother Russia?
- Worthy spots: any tips on really nice places in Western Russia (around the route between Moscow and St Petersburg)?
- Same as above for each of the Baltics?
- Outfit: any recommendations? Is it all round hot at this time of the year or are there high passes where it gets chilly?
- Belarus: I thought of returning to Moscow via Minsk (and would actually love to), but heard it's difficult to get a Visa (I have Spanish and Brazilian citizenship) and I might have problems entering with the russian bike. Any experience on that?

Any other general advice or recommendations are equally welcome!

Thanks in advance,

Sandro

Mostly RUS
 

Roads Police. Know and obey the rules and you will have no problems.
Documents spot checks are very regular, routine feature of RUS and not sinister. If everything is in order they wish you a good journey.
If you have done something wrong I would recommend being prepared to 'negotiate' a cheaper and quicker resumption of your journey than the official way. If doing so, don't let them see your money - my Partners daughter keeps a separate purse in her car and opens it to show she has only about 500Руб (12 Euro), which they invariably take and tell her to go.
You should have an idea of the official penalties to not get ripped off! They are far lower than they initially will tell you.
But best of all - obey the rules of the country you are visiting.
In RUS obey all speed limits (they extend quite long distances after villages) and NEVER cross a continuous white line - not even to get to/from a fuel station on the other side of the road.

Docs. IDP plus original Drivers Licence to support it. Insurance certificates valid (and understandable) for all countries you will be in. Vehicle Registration docs plus a letter of Authority from owner as listed in Registration docs. Passport with Visas, Migration Card and Registration in RUS.
In RUS always have vehicle docs when using vehicle and carry personal docs with you at all times.

Borders. There is effectively only one, RUS/EU (or maybe Belarus/EU). Motos ride to the front of all queues. Not only is it common practice but encouraged by other drivers and officials. Otherwise patience at some. Worst for length of time is E22 near Zilupe, Latvia which I heard is to be closed in the future - if true, will be a disapointment as Latvia is building a new dual road to the border.

Worthy spots. It really depends what you want. Sea, scenery, sex clubs, history, lakes, forest, old towns/cities - they all have them all!

Outfit. It will be quite warm, average temperature probably 25-30, possibly more at times. Ventilated riding clothes but no thermals! There is nothing of any altitude where it could get chilly.

Belarus. No direct experience. A separate visa required. There is no patrolled or stopping border with RUS - it is open to ride/drive through rather like most EU countries, with no more than a sign. How that works for foreigners with Visa requirements is unclear to me. I understand it is a rather boring industrial wasteland to cross.


Finally, if starting in Moscow - take care. The driving style is unique, to put it mildly.
It works for them but is one hell of a culture shock to visitors.

Enjoy.

I have just seen your route map.

1. Your routes across Russia are just very long main roads with nothing special in terms of scenery. If you have time you may consider a deviation to the south west of your route to St Peter - turning off at Torzhok to Osthakov and Peno. This is area is called the Valdai region and has many beautiful lakes. Further north the old town of Novgorod might be interesting instead of the new by-pass.

2. An interesting alternative to the Estonia Baltic coast road would be the inland route from Tallin to Tartu then the Valga to Riga road, my personal favourite - gentle rolling hills with small lakes and farms and occasional pretty villages set in large clearings in the dark forest. I find it quite enchanting and a good riding road. My dilemma is whether to enjoy riding the road at speed or enjoy looking at the countryside slowly - usually the latter wins!

3. Your chosen border back into RUS took me over 8 hours in a car last Sunday. There were only 30 cars ahead of me! My fastest of 3 crossing into RUS at this point on a moto still took me over 2 hours. It is very very busy with freight traffic - being the nearest direct RUS border with EU.
Last week, when talking with Officials while waiting they recommended the Grebnova border point (A13 E262) a little further north near Karsarva, as being quicker with less queues.

I have not actually been on it much, but I imagine that the main road between St Pete and Moscow is dreary and full of traffic, trucks, and road police. No fun at all. As long as you have a little time and don't mind getting lost every now and then, I highly recommend taking some of the back roads between the two cities, although you would probably want to intersect the main road toward evening when you are looking for a place to stay (bed & breakfasts are few and far between--actually non-existent--in the boonies). The smaller towns/roads are just more interesting, much less--often zero--traffic, and the people are just much friendlier, and often surprised and pleased to meet with some strange foreigner in their small town.

I have not had the same bad experience as Tony with crossing the Russian border, but at least last time he was in a car rather than a moto, which makes a big difference. Generally it takes me less than an hour to get through the Russian border these days (just cut right up to the front, so far no one has objected), although I've done it several times now so kind of know the ropes. In my experience, the Russian border people at the smaller crossings at least are extremely friendly, helpful, and professional. Maybe they are more surly at the bigger crossings, dunno.

Haha, no moutain passes in this area, but it can still get cool even without altitude (although usually it is 20-30 degrees at this time of year). I can rain a fair bit but lately it has been pretty dry, so who knows.

I personally would avoid Belorussia, only because it is just one more border and I don't see how it would add much to your trip. Because of the Russia/Belorussia customs union, I don't understand how the bike paperwork works on these borders, so if you do it please post here and let us know.

Hello!
I have visited St. Petersburg in 2009 with my girlfriend on an overland motorcycle trip from Italy.
We got into Russia at Estonia / Russia border (right past Narva): it took about 2.5 hours in total but only because there was an Estonian bus in front of us and all the passengers were checked one by one.
The Russian customs officers were very professional, no hassle at all.

Different is our experience when returning back to the EU (Finland): there was a woman (customs officer) who really bothered me because my passport was not in perfect conditions (it had some small folds at pages' corners...) but at the end we managed the situation with no major hassle (no bribes were asked).
Her male collegues were much more friendly, and one of them (with higher degree) waved us out of Russia even if this ball-breaking woman told us to wait for another document's inspection (you can imagine my satisfaction in that moment :cool4:...).

I also confirm what Tony P told you as concerns the traffic police: out of 140 km (about) from Narva to St. Petersburg, we ran across 8 police checkpoints, but none of them pulled us over because we were respecting the speed limit.
The only time I had to ask road informations to a cop, he was friendly and helpful.

In case, if you change your itinerary and enter at EST/RUS border and ride the road to St. Petersburg, pay attention to a small checkpoint some km. past the border: there is only a small aluminum cabin on the gravel right side of the road with a STOP sign on it.
STOP ABSOLUTELY: there's some patrols hidden behind that are always ready to chase you.
Stop there, feet on the ground, ask permissions to restart to the cop inside and he'll wave you beyond.
Pay much attention, because it's not so visible and immediate to spot (you can confuse it with a cabin for road workers...).
As written above, we found it while riding with direction Narva-St.Petersburg, but easily there was another trap like this also in the opposite direction.

Weather: in august 2009 it was hot as hell, so no particular winter outfit.

Hi TonyP,

Thanks heaps for all the info! In that case, I'll be very careful when leaving Moscow, since I'll still be getting used to the big GS (I'm a compact Ducati rider myself). The rest seems to be pretty much common sense foreign country riding so I should be alright :)

As for the routes, indeed, the lake region seems to be promising. The only problem is, roads seem to just die there and go no further. Do you know if there is a road going from Peno up to Novgorod (via Staraya maybe)?

I'll take the hint of idyllic inland gentle hills with small lakes and farms for the Baltic countries (you touched a soft fibre here ;)).

Will rework the route tonight and share again for comments.

Cheers!

Hi Motoreiter / Holy Graal,

Thanks for all the information. That first decision is taken: I'll avoid the M10 and take the back roads. Getting lost every now and then is no problem (done that in Morocco recently and actually enjoyed heaps ;) ). I'll try to remember the little small aluminium checkpoint, hahaha!

And worry not, if in the end I decide to do Belaruss I'll post all the details of border crossing here :)

Cheers!

'Her indoors' who recommended the Valdai lake region, has always been and returned to Moscow the same way - before my time!

Looking at my bigger scale atlas there is a way round west from Peno via numberous back roads and villages to Kholm then the P51 north to Staraya Russa. The area has marshes which may explain no aparent route between neighbouring villages that you would normally expect to be connected.
Russian road signs are a rare thing and not comprehensive by any means ("Why do we need signs - we know where we are going" is the attitude!) so I would recommend you pick up an atlas in Moscow.

Let me know when you are coming and if I am not away maybe we could have a beer (on a non-riding day - strict Zero limit here!). I can't help with accommodation but suggest you contact "motobelka" via HUBB. She and her husband "DEAN rus" have a brand new house in Khimki near Sheremetevo airport, where they were planning a guest room with garage space for bikers. They are a delightful family, very keen riders (in the business and for own pleasure) and speak perfect English.

Let me know when you're in Vilnius.. We could grab a beer and I could show some nice places around town.
I could as well recomment to go to Paulius GUEST HOUSE IN TRAKAI, LITHUANIA | Enduro Lithuania
He know Lithuania very well and could recomment the more unknown places to visit.

Thanks again Tony! Digging on satellite photos I think I found a way north of Peno (i'm just not sure how old the pics are). But I'm hoping the Russian atlas will confirm it all. The udated route can be found here

I'll be in Moscow on 23-24/07 and then on 07-08-09/08. A beer is ALWAYS an irresistible invitation, specially from a fellow adventure biker, so let me know if you'll be around! :)

Cheers!

Thanks for the invitation and the tip Ongediertebestrijder (that sounds more Dutch than Lithuanian, btw). I'll let you know when I have a schedule to arrive in Vilnius, would love to share a beer!

Cheers

The route looks good.
My concern was the link between Rvenitsi and Mamomovshina but the Sattelite shows something - at in summertime. So it's looking good.

It will b e a busy 2 weeks for you.

Those dates are looking a bit doubtful for me right now, we are thinking of a holiday in France, but it could change nearer the time.

Sorry, I think I've missed why you're going to Peno? In particular, it looks like you are dipping south from Ostashkov to Peno, which is kind of out of the way?

I have never been on these particular roads, but have been on small roads in this area. If you are on street tires, I would be wary of that stretch south of Shubino (Шубино), the road could be a dirt track through a swamp, which is dicey on a GS. There will be little, if any, traffic on these roads so if you go be prepared to hoof it out if necessary. I got stuck in the mud on a similar road about 100km away a couple of years ago, and it took me about 4 hours to get free, during which time not a single vehicle or person passed by. Here is a contemporaneous account, if you are interested: Motoreiter: August 2009

Especially if the weather has been wet, I would just go via Demyansk...

As far as Lake Seliger goes, I was kind of disappointed. The lake is not visible from 99.99% of the road, and many of the places that have lake access seem to be closed to the public (various camps, etc.).

Hi Motoreiter,

I'm doing the Peno stretch on TonyP's suggestion. And checking the satellite imagery I saw some interesting lake configurations, so I'm expecting nice scenery.

Yeah... Shubino down to Marevo looks a bit unclear from the satellite. As a backup, I traced an alternate route via Demyansk. I saw your blog and honestly, Being myself a mere 5' 3" and rather skinny, there's no chance I can get the GS out of mud on my own. My strategy is therefore clear: at the first sign of mush, turn back and take the safer route! :D

Good luck on the road of bones!!

Definitely a good idea if you'll be alone on street tires. GL, and drop me a pm when you're coming through Moscow.

Hi all,

First post in here; registered for something else, and happened to see this come up on a search.

I live in Tallinn, and can only comment regarding the Baltics (mostly Estonia):

• Contrary to what earlier suggested by Tony P, but I would personally avoid the Tallinn -> Tartu -> Valga-Valka -> Riga route at all costs. I did it a few times (catching flights etc), and it is a god-awful boring stretch of totally flat road. Tallinn -> Tartu is also crawling with police and speed cameras (the latter being less relevant to bikes without front license plates). Pärnu is also generally more fun in summer than Tartu.
• In general, unless in a hurry, I'd stay off the main roads. I can suggest an alternate route (within Estonia) if you wish, but keep in mind none of the Baltic countries have much in the way of 'wow' scenery, mostly on account of everything being completely flat (tallest "mountain": 318m).
• Temperatures: for the Baltics, 25-30 average temperature as indicated earlier is optimistic. While this summer is very warm so far (~23 in Tallinn right now), summer temperature can dip down to below 10 during evenings, and some days no more than 15 during the day. You can hope to get lucky, or you can bring a slightly warmer liner/thin thermal shirt.
• Police: Don't try to bribe police in Estonia. Police in Latvia may agree to "fine" you on the spot (aka bribe). Keep a spare wallet with smaller amount of Euros inside.

BTW, drop me a pm if you stop in Tallinn :)

I have no knowledge of the Tallin - Tartu section, but several times have ridden and driven Tartu - Riga both ways on my way to/from the Rus border at Narva. Whilst it cannot be described as mountainous, flat it is not. Once clear of Riga and turned onto the A3, I saw and was on gently rolling hills all the way.

Rushing for flights, thinking of your destination, in your own land, might put a different perspective on it.

But it is my favourite surfaced road on a journey - to just go there to use it and then go home might also be different too!

Variety in tastes is what stops us all being the same boring replicas of each other!

Welcome, by the way :thumbup1:

You're right, Tartu - Riga is not as flat as Tallinn - Tartu (although I would say 'very gently rolling hills' :)).

I often drove them close together, so it kind of blurs into one road.

The Tallinn - Tartu road is by far the biggest snoozefest in Estonia, crawling with police cars which will ticket you for ridiculous things (I got a ticket for doing 74 in a 70 zone. Yes, really.) thus I would still avoid heading that way.

Thanks guys,

I'll give another check at that Tallinn-Tartu stretch but will give the Valga-Riga one a go. For me it's all new and a different land, so all is welcome...

And I'll definitely PM all (Motoreiter too!) for a beer while on the way, the camaraderie here is really appreciated :)

Cheers!

The beers will be appreciated too.:yes:

I had a lot with Motoreiter last week! :nono:

We are no strangers - nor to beer!:no:

:rofl:

Sorry for hijacking this post but I am planning a similar route and either leaving tomorrow from Stockholm by ferry to Tallinn or on Saturday.
This is the route; Google Maps

The plan is to spend one day/night in Tallinn then ride to Parmu through Paldski (from what I have read there is an old soviet navy base there). I shall spend one night in Parmu. Then of to Riga with a short stop over in Cesis to see the Castle. Was thinking of spending 2 nights in Riga and then of to Moscow. I know the road to Moscow will be boring as its all along the main highway but I cant seem to see anything better on the map. Looking to spend all up 7 days on the road.
Any comments or advice ??

Denis ))

You have probably read my earlier comments.
I would add that apart from the 8+hours at the border, and hitting an Elk at night, my car then got 3 flat tyres (2 with destroyed sidewalls) 3 weeks ago on a particularly bad section of road between 250 and 350Km from Moscow. According to local TV, last week a car and bus collided swerving to miss some of the deep, sharp potholes - 7 died in the ensuing blaze.

Below is someone elses comments tonight, about an alternative route, from a general English language forum here.
- - - - - - - - - - -
Well in case anyone ever wants to do Riga-Moscow....i can highly recommend taking the E77 out of Riga to the north-east, do 20km of Estonia and then use the Estonia-Russia border near Pskov.

The distance is around 80km more in total but the roads are MUCH better/faster from Riga to the border. We gained more than 1 hour just on that first bit because it was almost exclusively a 90 km/h abandoned road in good condition. it was 100 km/h on cruise control 95% of the way.
Pskov back down to the M9 is reasonable road, not very fast but not slow either.

At the border monday morning around 10:15 AM, there was a short line of cars...we got in around 20 mins after arriving, it did take another hour to clear all of the hurdles but I'm quite confident in total we shaved hours off the trip by not going through Zilupe.

There was a pretty long line on the other side of the border however to get into Estonia. Maybe because it was a Russian holiday (monday 13 june)

Even the border staff seemed friendlier...and let us get away with something they apparently had a rule against, without any bribes even (on the russian side)
- - - - - - - - - - - - -

Hi Denis,

By now you should be either back or on the final stretch of your journey. I hope you had a great time! How did it go? Any surprises? Were the hints from the forum helpful?

Also, I was wondering what's about Pärmu that made you decide to spend a day. Would you still recommend it now that you've been there?

Cheers!

Hi Tony,

Do you have a link to the original forum where the Pskov border crossing is suggested? I couldn't find it and I wanted to ask if that would still be better than the Grebnova border crossing if I'm coming from Vilnius.

Thanks!

Different Forum - different Website.
Estonia-Russia border or Latvia-Russia ? - The Moscow Expat Forums

I changed my route and started in Helsinki and have gone around the Finish Gulf through St Petersburg, Tallin, Parnu and am currently in Riga. I would suggest to go through Petergorf on your way to Tallinn. There is an old palace that used to belong to some Tsar's. Its very very cool and will probably take you an hour or two to explore. Then I would suggest to ride another 20km or so and turn left just before bolshaya izhora and head towards the M11 and into Tallinn. Its a shame that you can't take back roads through Russia as the roads can be quite shocking. Always a good idea to ask a local first if you do decide to take them. I spent a few nights in Tallinn and the road to Parnu. Parnu is called Estonias summer capital. Has a nice beach and I would personally say it's worth a visit. From there I rode to Riga through Cesis. There is a cool Castle that you can explore there. The only other thing I would recommend is take as many back roads as possible as the highways are boring, straight and has plenty of traffic.

Thanks for the info Dennis!

I just got to Moscow yesterday and am picking the bike today to hit the road. Can't wait!! Hope you had fun and got back home safely.

Cheers,

Sandro

Sandro, Hi

I thought of you a couple of days ago, as I was driving through the Baltics on my way back to Moscow for winter.

How did it go?

Tony