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  #16  
Old 11 Dec 2010
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Originally Posted by dave ede View Post
I was wondering when someone was going to mention the 'Elefantreffen' I did it on a solo in the early 80's .....
innocent question... I'm not locked in at the Advrider web page am I ?

here at the HU I thought we try to help others, specially the ones that are on the road from far away... don't we ?
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  #17  
Old 11 Dec 2010
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So get a plane, bus, boat, truck, plane, is helpful then? I;d better get a RTW plane ticket then and call it 'overlanding'
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  #18  
Old 11 Dec 2010
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The primary objective of most rides is to survive it.

If it were me , I would look out to buy a cheap van/pickup, insure it and drive it to the UK and dump/sell it.
Maybe even an estate car and lie the bike on its side. ( remove liquids and battery first)

Doubt very much you can get one way hire across country borders even in the EEC.

I used to ride to and fro Norfolk to Cornwall each weekend when I was in the forces. All through the winter of '63 435 miles each way on a Meriden Triumph 500. I did have a fairing but it was still cold. I wouldn't do it now. I just ride for pleasure these days. Even last September on my way to Poland I had two days when it rained all day. Miserable ride. The rest of the two weeks were fine.

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  #19  
Old 11 Dec 2010
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Hi,

In germany there is a new low scince thsi winter saying you have to have tires with the M+S Symbol for Mud and Snow lie the TKC80 if there is ice or snow on the road.

The highways are very bouring so i would prefere to take the natiola rouds. With them you also donw have to pay toll in france, swiss and spain.

Travel save, Tobi
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  #20  
Old 12 Dec 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spooky View Post
innocent question... I'm not locked in at the Advrider web page am I ?

here at the HU I thought we try to help others, specially the ones that are on the road from far away... don't we ?
Telling the guy it can't be done is helpful how? As for the suggestion of dumping some old truck, lets just hope it's dumped in the back garden of some one who's done the same on their trip, then either way some lazy dirty idiot gets whats coming to them rather than inflicting rubbish on people who try to keep the place fit to live in.

M&S tyres make a massive difference (Heidenaus are my preference, TCKs are very very stiff in the sidewalls in my experience). Snow is very much like sand so normal knobblies work and off road riders pick it up quickly. Ice is the reason for M&S tyres and make it just like riding in the wet once your head has worked out about staying smooth and not going into panic mode. I'd agree with the law in Germany, it should be Europe wide but I'd debate the German law being enforcable on a foreign vehicle unless there is an obvious reason it was causing a problem (in other words if you are riding well on normal knobblies the police won't bother you, crash and they will). Clothing isn't a big issue for a simple cross country trip like this. One piece thermal, lots of jumpers and an unlined oversuit and you'll be fine. Total cost, €300 for the tyres (which can be run in the summer until worn down, they'll last about half the distance of summer compound) and €100 for the extra clothing (which can be chucked in a charity collection/recycle bin in April). You are where you need to be, the bike is with you, you aren't getting deported for fly tipping and you'll find sand and rain come very easy once you've mastered the winter stuff. If you are lucky you'll also see some beautiful countryside in a season you'd otherwise miss and other sorts of slippy stuff will come easier. The downside is the risk of losing an indicator or worse which is why when it ceases to be fun you find somewhere to stay.

What is useful is knowing the topography. Crossing the Pennines, Eifel, Alps etc. the roads rise and it gets colder. Having a warm drink, getting ready then having an hour of this cold stuff mid morning works. Arriving at the point where it starts to rise just as it gets dark and pushing on because you want the nights in a particular town is the recipe for a rotten trip or worse. This means it's slower and more tireing than a summer blast.

I'm with Ta-Rider on the National Roads with one small addition. When the weather closes in they keep the city to city motorways open longest. The motorways also have service stations with motels. If you really do get caught in some bad stuff, the emergency lane is the place to ride at 10 MPH rather than on the blind bends of the minor roads. If there is a sudden fall of snow it's debateable which is best. Following a snow plough at 40 mph isn't as much fun as having the minor road to yourself, but getting caught on a quickly shrinking line of rideable slush with trucks passing you is really bad, as it 10 mph on the hard shoulder. Certainly if you end up out with darkness falling the Autobahn is your friend.

If you don't try of course you'll never know.

Andy
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  #21  
Old 12 Dec 2010
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Hi,



Quote:
Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie View Post
M&S tyres make a massive difference (Heidenaus are my preference, TCKs are very very stiff in the sidewalls in my experience). Snow is very much like sand so normal knobblies work and off road riders pick it up quickly.
Well Offroad tires make a big difference...so far i have been riding all winter with Mitas E07 all right wich is now illegal because of the missing stamp


LG,
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  #22  
Old 12 Dec 2010
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yes, the new law for winter tyres = M+S is a minimum requirement for cars, I'm not to sure if it will apply for bikes too.... often this new laws do not apply to bikes regarding it's "considerable lesser" appearance on the road, just like the emission laws don't apply for bikes that strict, the main target about this laws are cars. Some idiot on TV even mention to introduce colour coded tyres as they are available now... like orange tyres for summer and black for winter use to allow the police for easy identifications...

Knobblies, would be OK on bikes

Quote:
Originally Posted by rehanw View Post
What do you think about city or highway riding now and over the next few weeks? Issues I have in mind:

- Road surface!! - Ice on main roads, black ice etc. - will they be cleared sufficient for 2 wheels
- Chains vs studs
- Tire choice - currently Tourance
- Dangers of other drivers
Rehan
well... just a suggestion to Rehan's first enquiry....

by now we all know, and meanwhile found out that it may can be a tricky decision for him to make a good and bearable judgement about the weather, road conditions and distance he want to be able to cover over the next two weeks before xmas in unknown territory.. "Rehan asked for some hints"...

so... as far I understand... Rehan want or may even need to go from Berlin to Amsterdam, Brussel, Paris and London.... to discover what Europe is like...
how about providing him some more targeting advice and help to do this in this unexpected winter chaos... rather than confusing the means of how to travel ?

now Rehan:
I can provide you a stepping stone for free commendation for a few days to be able for to sit out bad weather, having a rest, space to work on your bike if needed and what else, I live basicaly right on that axial line you would come by, I can provide essential turn off and location GPS waypoints for most of this journey (over country roads and motorways, crossroads, ports and so on, which I did collect and ridden my self for countless times over the last 10 years) that may help you to make effective use of the short daytime and not wasting to much time to find a right way, got a good idea of the geographic situation too.

and as I see there is "atgxt660 / Richard" from the Netherlands is happy to help you out too... sound grate to me...

question:
is there any one else who like to voluntary on this matter ?

spooky
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  #23  
Old 12 Dec 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spooky View Post

question:
is there any one else who like to voluntary on this matter ?

spooky
Have been following this thread with interest. I would offer Berlin-London-en-route help, but as I'm 200 miles north of The Smoke (slang for London, if you're not from these parts) it wouldn't help. Having said that, if you're touring the UK, look me up if you're passing West Yorkshire.

Have you tried contacting HU Communities (link in menu bar on left)? The people there like to meet/help other travellers.

cheers
Chris
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  #24  
Old 12 Dec 2010
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Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie View Post
Telling the guy it can't be done is helpful how? As for the suggestion of dumping some old truck, lets just hope it's dumped in the back garden of some one who's done the same on their trip, then either way some lazy dirty idiot gets whats coming to them rather than inflicting rubbish on people who try to keep the place fit to live in.

Andy

By dump I meant take it to a scrapyard to junk it. or sell it on for road use. However a foreign registered old van LHD may not be very much sought after in the UK. The parts are mostly good.

same as giving clothing to charity for recycling.
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  #25  
Old 12 Dec 2010
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Black ice will be the biggest problem ,as it's not easily visible .The rest you can compensate for by riding cautiously .I used to ride all year round in the UK before I moved to Canada ,it wasn't always fun ,but I did it and the only part that scared me was riding when it was snowing heavily ,the effect of the snowflakes in the headlight was disorienting .These days ,with electric suits, the cold isn't too bad .The key factor is to stay warm ,then you'll be alert .Plus take up the offers of hospitalty !Buy a van ? Not on your nelly !
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Last edited by Dodger; 12 Dec 2010 at 23:16.
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  #26  
Old 13 Dec 2010
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Originally Posted by Dodger View Post
Black ice will be the biggest problem ,Is this racism?as it's not easily visible, on a white background it is.The rest you can compensate for by riding cautiously like a speedway rider?.I used to ride all year round in the UK before I moved to Canada ,it wasn't always fun What?, living amongst Canadians? ,but I did it and the only part that scared me was riding when it was snowing heavily ,the effect of the snowflakes in the headlight was disorienting .These days ,with electric suits ,Have these replaced the 'electric chair'? the cold isn't too bad .The key factor is to stay warm, not what Joan of Arc said ,then you'll be alert, be alert, the world needs 'lerts' .Plus take up the offers of hospitalty !Buy a van ?Only to transport your 'dirt bikes' Not on your nelly ! not suprised,shes now 82 years old!
The real problem I can see is that the original poster may not have not have the 'right' riding gear for the temperatures he will encounter in Europe, being he has travelled from Asia, and after riding from there and surviving, his riding ability is not in question
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  #27  
Old 13 Dec 2010
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Be a Lert

(n) A small furry woodland creature that's senses are always very intensely attuned to its surroundings.-urban dictionary
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  #28  
Old 13 Dec 2010
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Originally Posted by rehanw View Post
Hi all,

I have ridden from Australia on a F650GS (the central Asia - Iran route) and I am in Berlin at the moment. I am looking for some advice from locals or those who have ridden here in winter.

I am planning to go from Berlin to Amsterdam, Brussels, Paris and finish my trip in London before Christmas. I am concerned about the road surfaces given the weather up to now, and what is predicted. I´m trying to decide whether to continue the ride or put the bike on a train or van and take the easy way to the UK.

What do you think about city or highway riding now and over the next few weeks? Issues I have in mind:

- Road surface!! - Ice on main roads, black ice etc. - will they be cleared sufficient for 2 wheels
- Chains vs studs
- Tire choice - currently Tourance
- Dangers of other drivers

Thoughts please??

Thanks
Rehan
Hello, I am in Augsburg right now, trying to cross Bavaria and Austria this week on my way to Italy. From what I saw so far in Germany, there is no problem with drivers, the Germans are pretty alert drivers. You can use the A motorways and B roads in normal conditions (until -10 degrees, on drizzle, rain, light snow) with no problem. If you have to go right now (the next couple of days will be pretty awful), just dress well, stop often, avoid sudden maneuvers and you'll be fine.

Ride on!

Dorin
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  #29  
Old 13 Dec 2010
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The Electric jacket as Torture

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave ede View Post
....
Provide your victim with a newly made and particularly poweful electric jacket. Send him on a trip to the far north in February where he will become accustomed to a cold dry climate. Return him towards the ferry allowing a final night in Amsterdam where he will take in slightly too much of the local culture . Dehydrated, with a hacking cough he will feel cold due to the wet air and will stupidly wear the heater next to his skin. Halfway to the ferry he will turn off the jacket as it burns .

24 hours later, place the unfortunate in a room with his wife. While talking of Reindeer and scenes of fantastic whiteness he will remove his shirt to reveal eight red marks spaced at the exact intervals of the wires in the heated jacked across his back . These also match the spacing of the finger nails on some imagined lady of negotiable virtue from the street next to the bar you were in. .

Cruel and Unusual punishement will follow

On a serious note, take care with heated kit. It really does turn hard work into fun and according keep you awake and safer. Stand on the plug or have the wiring go phut though and you are back to what you are wearing. You need to have enough on to make it safely without the gadgets.

Andy
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  #30  
Old 16 Dec 2010
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Hi guys,

Thanks for all the replies. If nothing else, it confirms that there are many issues in continuing on.

A few people have talked about dealing with cold. I bought some cold weather gear which proved to be OK for riding in -10 and German snowstorm a few weeks ago. Fingers and toes are still a problem though. The only solution was to stop regularly at petrol stations and warm up under the WC hot water or hand driers. A bottle of hot water on the chest under the jacket helped a lot too. It proved an electric vest would be a wise investment.

It is a big thing for me to ride into London as the symbolic RTW end point and that is weighing on me a lot. It's been the goal and the drive. On the other side is a long cold motorway ride with constant fear of wipe out (nods to Andy and Spooky).

I started writing this reply saying I was going to ship the bike home from Berlin but in doing so realised I really don't want to do that.

So - it looks like there is going to be enough of a gap in the weather between 18 Dec to 23 Dec so I think i'm going to make an attempt. The plan is as follows:

17 Dec - fit TKC 80s / K60s
18 Dec - Hannover
19 Dec - Wuppertal (thanks Spooky)
20 Dec - Ghent (where are you atgxt660?)
21 Dec - Calais
22 Dec - London



Can western Europe be worse than the KKH or an Iranian jail? I'll let you know in about a week...
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