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  #1  
Old 18 Jul 2013
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Please sign this.

Or have a good look at it.
https://submissions.epetitions.direc...etitions/48528
If you go into Europe. You have to pay toll's and that money goes to the country to help pay for road's. We should have the same thing here.
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  #2  
Old 18 Jul 2013
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Would that be discrimination? In the end we all would be paying Tolls, so, NO thanks
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  #3  
Old 18 Jul 2013
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"physician heal thyself"

If I thought for about 5 minutes I reckon I could locate 20 odd uk registered cars within a fairly short distance of where I'm sitting, which have all been resident in france for over 5 years, have never been "control techniqued" (mot'd) here, or registered here, or insured here (or anywhere for that matter) & are free to use the entire french road network for free apart from the Autoroutes which they have to pay for like everybody else (the pay autoroutes in france amount to a paltry 8474 linier kilometres)

from what I read the suggestion is that it's brits, registering cars abroard specifically in order to not pay road tax etc. which is funny cos it's brits here purposefully not re registering their vehicles, to avoid paying for mot's etc & in the hope of avoiding speeding fines...



now you've got me started...!
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  #4  
Old 18 Jul 2013
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It is complex

Quote:
Originally Posted by John933 View Post
Or have a good look at it.
https://submissions.epetitions.direc...etitions/48528
If you go into Europe. You have to pay toll's and that money goes to the country to help pay for road's. We should have the same thing here.
John933
The subject is very much more complex than this epetition implies.
The UK parliament has plans already to deal with the issue of foreign trucks running on the roads in the UK in order to make the competition with UK haulage companies more even - the famous "level playing field".
I watched that debate on UK TV and it was very good indeed; it was evident that the MPs who spoke had been well briefed by the road haulage industry and the issue of how to deal with the problem without incurring the wrath of the EU regulators was explored very well.
There is a cunning plan within the draft proposals to deal with the issue that Palace15 mentions.

Regarding cars in particular: they have a right to be here, but not indefinitely. It would be fairly easy to monitor this via the fact that we are living on an island - much easier than it would be to track the 1000s of UK vehicles that are probably running around on the continent (certainly they are in France).

As a fact, only the wheel loadings of heavy goods vehicles cause damage to road surfaces which is one of the reasons that they pay a substantial road fund licence.
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  #5  
Old 18 Jul 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MooN View Post
from what I read the suggestion is that it's brits, registering cars abroard specifically in order to not pay road tax etc. which is funny cos it's brits here purposefully not re registering their vehicles, to avoid paying for mot's etc & in the hope of avoiding speeding fines...



now you've got me started...!
The way I read it, is that it is directed toward the 700,000 Poles who live in the UK at present with vehicles registered in Poland!!
The builders' yards all over the UK are full of Polish registered builders vehicles, going about their building trade in the UK - complete with trade names in both English and Polish, contact phone numbers in both countries etc etc.
Just saying.
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  #6  
Old 19 Jul 2013
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Maybe it's me but I don't understand what it has to do with EU as stated by the original poster (John). It is something from the UK and last time I checked you guys are far from being EU...


When you come from the Uk into EU you don't pay anything, so I wouldn't be happy to pay to go to the UK.

And (I can only speak for Belgium) a foreigner who lives here can only have his car here registered in his country of origin for 6 months. After that police can seize the plates/vehicle and the owner gets fined.

And I must also almost completely agree with Walkabout, have a look in France and Spain at the UK registered vehicles that haven't been in the UK for the past decade...

The difference is with for example Poland, that the roadtax there is almost non-existent, they include this in the fuelprice. So the more you ride, the more fuel you need, the more "tax" you pay. This was confirmed to me by a Polish guy in a discussion I had with him about something else road related.

Anyway, whatever happens in the UK is't easy to control as you only have a few entry points for vehicles anyway...
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  #7  
Old 19 Jul 2013
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Tolls suck.... Wherever you are or where ever you're from..

There shoudn't be a tax to move about on the planet you were born on !!
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  #8  
Old 19 Jul 2013
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"It should be compulsory that all foreign registers cars pay some form of road tax."

That'll do the tourist industry a power of good
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  #9  
Old 19 Jul 2013
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Just a bit of discussion about the topic

The topic is complex, but ...........

Tolls are not really the subject of the epetition which asks for some form of tax to be introduced in the UK for those vehicles that are not registered here.

Tolls are used to finance taxation in quite a few countries in mainland Europe - by this statement, I include vignettes which are usually associated with travelling on major highways in various countries; for instance, Austria has road toll booths located on some high ground which are reputed to pay for the high passes.

Anyway, taxation itself is a fraught subject!
In the UK, vehicle taxation has multiple facets and it may be more complex than in any other country for all I know - that is quite possible because of the way taxes are brought in, bit by bit, over many years which just increases the complexity and makes it harder to know what exactly is being paid in taxes, while also making it easier for the politicians to make a living from talking about it.
Tax is also paid on fuel in the UK and it is reported to be set at one of the highest rates compared with other countries that are nearby - it is somewhere in the region of 60-80% of the cost of fuel (I really can't remember the figure, but it is horrendous and not something to dwell upon). Hence, logically, foreign registered heavy goods vehicles (HGV) fit additional fuel tanks, fill up elsewhere, carry out a drop off and pick up in the UK and head back home without contributing anything at all to the UK economy - they use fuel purchased outside the UK, pay no form of taxation for use of the highway, sleep in the cab (all lay bys on the route from Dover to London are full up with foreign registered trucks during the wee hours) and compete for haulage contracts within the UK on a "less than level playing field". When I passed through Dover docks in August last year (admittedly, a one-off random sample) there was not a single British registered/owned HGV parked there waiting to load onto a ferry.

It is everything to do with the EU simply because we are pretty good at implementing EU regulations which is not always the case for some other members of the EU - we still have a large and pretty efficient civil service which aims to carry out the rules to the letter, thereby justifying their own jobs, self-importance, career progression etc etc.
But, in some areas the same civil service is not fit for purpose - it could easily monitor foreign registered vehicles entering, and departing, the UK but it chooses to deal with other, more political issues; maybe that will change, just as attitudes to the issue of immigration to the UK are changing.
In any case, the 6 month regulation seems to apply across the whole of the EU - it has been discussed numerous times in earlier threads in here and the quoted figure is always 6 months.

Summary: it would be very easy to monitor and control the use of all foreign registered vehicles in the UK and we are going to do it for HGVs via a new tax for road haulage - the other vehicles are not important, politically.

ps
Does no one see the irony in this conversation when compared with the subject of taxation of aviation fuel???
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Last edited by Walkabout; 19 Jul 2013 at 12:31. Reason: ps added
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  #10  
Old 19 Jul 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkabout View Post
The topic is complex, but ...........

Tax is also paid on fuel in the UK and it is reported to be set at one of the highest rates compared with other countries that are nearby - it is somewhere in the region of 60-80% of the cost of fuel (I really can't remember the figure, but it is horrendous and not something to dwell upon).

Hence, logically, foreign registered heavy goods vehicles (HGV) fit additional fuel tanks, fill up elsewhere, carry out a drop off and pick up in the UK and head back home without contributing anything at all to the UK economy - they use fuel purchased outside the UK,
You're right, it is a complex area and not one that I have knowledge of (or tbh much interest in) but I've come across the stuff in your quote above a number of times from various sources and, based on what I've been paying for fuel in the nearest countries to the UK in recent years, wonder how viable a proposition it is.

Unless the Euro has collapsed since I started typing this petrol and diesel are more expensive in France, Belgium, Holland and Germany than in the UK, petrol considerably so. Where are the truckers filling up with the cheap stuff or is it just freight companies from further afield. If so are they doing the same thing in France, Germany et al as it would seem to be even more profitable there as they wouldn't have to dick around with ferries, borders etc, and if they are, are the French / Germans up in arms about it? I've no idea (and certainly no axe to grind) - just wondering.
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Old 19 Jul 2013
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Originally Posted by backofbeyond View Post
You're right, it is a complex area and not one that I have knowledge of (or tbh much interest in) but I've come across the stuff in your quote above a number of times from various sources and, based on what I've been paying for fuel in the nearest countries to the UK in recent years, wonder how viable a proposition it is.

Unless the Euro has collapsed since I started typing this petrol and diesel are more expensive in France, Belgium, Holland and Germany than in the UK, petrol considerably so. Where are the truckers filling up with the cheap stuff or is it just freight companies from further afield. If so are they doing the same thing in France, Germany et al as it would seem to be even more profitable there as they wouldn't have to dick around with ferries, borders etc, and if they are, are the French / Germans up in arms about it? I've no idea (and certainly no axe to grind) - just wondering.
I don't have a strong interest either, but on a filthy-weather-day a while back that interesting debate came to my attention.
There is also enormous complexity in enforcement of the proposed new rules/tax and, in many respects, that was the most fascinating part of the debate - it covered all of the baser instincts of mankind and how they can overcome the rules, avoid the tax and avoid prosecution. As I mentioned, there are some cunning plans under consideration to deal with this.

As for the trucks in Dover last year, think of Romanian, Bulgarian and other registrations out East; France deal with this via their toll roads and various restrictions of HGVs from their smaller highways.
I don't know much about Germany, but they will be well aware of the situation.
No doubt, similar competition issues exist in those "older" members of the EU.

Incidentally, the professional transport companies will not be paying the banner-headline prices that we mere mortals are expected to pay at the pump. Their own head offices will negotiate the rates for buying in bulk, as I would if I had the purchasing power (some folks in the UK are doing this now for bulk purchase of fuel oil for central heating - a whole village get together and cut a deal with the suppliers - neat eh!)

I have had something of a minor interest, in travelling on our own highways, to study how many/big additional fuel tanks can be fitted onto the prime mover of a HGV - just overtake them slowly and take a look.
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Old 20 Jul 2013
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Originally Posted by Walkabout View Post
I have had something of a minor interest, in travelling on our own highways, to study how many/big additional fuel tanks can be fitted onto the prime mover of a HGV - just overtake them slowly and take a look.
On most of the old wrecks I ride overtaking slowly (or not at all) is all I can do.

If there are some new rules or whatever to tax / restrict / fine etc "foreign" vehicles taking advantage of some loophole or other I just hope that the legislation is thought through and achieves what has been intended without any "collateral damage". The wording on the petition request above doesn't look like it has been (it doesn't even look like it's been proof read ) so it won't be getting my support.
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Old 21 Jul 2013
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No bloody chance I'll be signing for tolls or more taxes, regardless of who they are aimed at. Shame on any driver/rider who does.
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  #14  
Old 21 Jul 2013
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Originally Posted by *Touring Ted* View Post
Tolls suck.... Wherever you are or where ever you're from..

There shoudn't be a tax to move about on the planet you were born on !!
Well said Ted. Taxing movement is like something out of feudal times. I can't believe anyone could be in favour.
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Old 21 Jul 2013
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Austria once sold me a carnet followed by a toll motorway followed by a toll mountain pass followed by one tank of fuel and a city toll.

Croatia and the Czech Republic have sold me several tanks of petrol, meals and hotel rooms in the ten years since I last visited Austria.

Andy
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