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  #1  
Old 16 Jan 2013
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Obtaining a Carnet in France

Hi,

Perhaps a bit of a silly question here.
I am considering buying a motorcycle in France (well prices with a good selection of used bikes). I know enough French to perhaps negotiate a purchase but certainly not enough for forms and paperwork. In particular, I am wanting information on obtaining a Carnet de Passage in France for the bike in order to travel through Iran, Pakistan, India and Nepal. How does one go about doing this?
Is this a pretty stupid idea with very limited French? Perhaps I should stick to buying a bike in a predominantly English-speaking country?

Cheers in advance.
Nicola
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  #2  
Old 17 Jan 2013
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Hi Nicola,

I hadn't yet looked into the process of obtaining a carnet for a trip into eastern areas such as you have planned for 2014 or even for my trip this year. I know I am needing visa's for those countries outside of the Schengen area.

For a carnet de passage, I would need to find out what is the go with this.

Quote:
Is this a pretty stupid idea with very limited French?
No, it is not a silly idea at all, one would think that the French should know all about 'Carnet de Passage'.
Motos in France, well they are plentiful and you can get a well maintained bike that should be just right for what you want to do. Getting my bike was not so difficult at all, just a bit of patience with the French administration system.

A friend of mine is over from France riding around Tas at the moment, I could ask him when he comes back to my place in a week or two, he may know more about these things.

Sorry, I haven't much info for you, but shall be interested to know more myself.


Paul
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  #3  
Old 17 Jan 2013
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Hi
if my english is bad !!! my french is ok
1) where do you want to buy a bike in France ?
2)travel with a french registred bike or aus ?

To find a bike in France....the best !
Petites annonces gratuites d'occasion - leboncoin.fr

for the papers
http://www.douane.gouv.fr/menu.asp?id=1

Yves
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Old 17 Jan 2013
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Yves, thankyou for the link to the papers!

Yes, I had been given the link to Le Bon Coin -- thats where I would purchase from. Location in France doesn't matter. Want to buy a French registered bike and ride it to Nepal and then ship it to Canada.

I don't speak much french. Enough to understand what the advertisements say on Le Bon Coin. I am worried that doing the paperwork for the carnet in France will be difficult.
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Old 17 Jan 2013
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Reading this page via Google Translate http://www.douane.gouv.fr/page.asp?id=32

From what I can determine, it means that a 'tourist' can purchase a French registered motorcycle free of road taxes etc. What I cannot determine is
1) Does the buyer require a fixed address IN FRANCE?
2) Does the vehicle have to return to France after a certain period of time?

Also struggling to find information on the Douane website about obtaining a Carnet in France but I will keep looking.

EDIT: Is this what I'm looking for regarding obtaining a Carnet in France, through the ACA? http://www.automobile-club.org/se-de...en-douane.html
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Old 18 Jan 2013
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Hi nicola
I think it's not so easy !!!
if you are not résident ???
for example:
http://www.aveyron.gouv.fr/fr/pratiq...dmi_code=F1050
http://droit-finances.commentcamarch...ulee-en-france

maybe see with your embassy in Paris

http://www.france.embassy.gov.au/parifrancais/home.html

yves
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  #7  
Old 18 Jan 2013
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Hi

Have you looked into insurance too?

I briefly looked into getting French insurance for my vehicle and was told by one company that without being resident in France I couldn't. Maybe thats not 100% true but worth checking out?

I would think you would need a French address to put on the bikes documents also?

Good luck
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Old 18 Jan 2013
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Obtaining Green Card Insurance is not too much of an issue, I think.
I am an EU citizen, I just don't have an address (at least not one with my name attached to it) anywhere in the EU.
I believe that's going to be the most difficult part in regards to purchasing a bike.
France has a great selection of bikes at great prices but the more I research using Google Translate the more I fear that the language barrier is going to make it very difficult to determine what I need to do, especially in regards to a Carnet. (Buying and registering the bike, after obtaining an address, seems fairly straightforward)
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Old 18 Jan 2013
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Bikes, or that matter almost any secondhand vehicle is expensive in France compared to the UK (and Belgium or Germany). There are a lot of very poorly maintained bikes on the road as there is no Controle Technique (roadworthiness test) for bikes. To get a Carte Gris (Registration document) you would need to be resident and have a utility bill in your name at the address where you want to register the bike or get a justacatif de domicile from the Mairie if you are staying with a friend for 3 months or more. You would need the CG to get a carnet. Green card insurance would only work in France for a non French registered vehicle.

Sorry to be so negative and I can't be sure that it would be any easier in the UK but it would probably be cheaper and you wouldn't have the language barrier to overcome.
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Old 18 Jan 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnon View Post
Bikes, or that matter almost any secondhand vehicle is expensive in France compared to the UK (and Belgium or Germany).
What he said... and... to get the Carnet you have to have the registration for the vehicle in your name and have the funds to back up the CDP in a French bank with an attestation letter from said bank.

My bank would not word it as the Auto Club required so I ended up transferring the money to them to hold... interest free of course!

Read more at http://www.automobile-club.org/se-de...en-douane.html

On the plus side if you can get one, there is no 8x loading for Egypt like the UK CDP or Iran.
I declared my bike as being worth 1k €'s and had to lodge 3 grand with them.
Things have changed a little since then. From their site:

Quote:
Le montant de cette caution est calculé de manière à couvrir celui des droits de douanes ou autres taxes pouvant être exigés par les pays visités. Il existe des différences importantes selon les pays, mais celle-ci s’élève a 100% de la valeur vénale (cote Argus) du véhicule avec un minimum de 2.500 € pour un véhicule dont la valeur ne dépasse pas 2.500 € (véhicule ancien) sauf pour :
  • l’IRAN, le PAKISTAN et l'INDE, où elle représente 150 % de la valeur vénale du véhicule avec un minimum de 3.500 €
  • l’EGYPTE, le YEMEN et le SOUDAN, où elle représente 250 % de la valeur vénale du véhicule avec un minimum de 4.000 €
John
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Old 18 Jan 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnon View Post
Sorry to be so negative and I can't be sure that it would be any easier in the UK but it would probably be cheaper and you wouldn't have the language barrier to overcome.
Not at all, thank you for your perspective, I had not considered your points. The other places I was thinking of buying were in the UK or Ireland. I'll look further into all of them. Your post was really helpful, thanks!

Thanks for the link Redboots!
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  #12  
Old 18 Jan 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicola_a View Post
The other places I was thinking of buying were in the UK or Ireland.
Maybe take a look at Wheatwhackers' offer in post number 42 in here:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...0-3#post404653

Sure, Ireland is two ferry trips from mainland Europe via the UK, but just one if you were to take a longer sea route direct to the continent.
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Old 19 Jan 2013
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Nicola,

I guess with all of this information posted so far, the first question is, do you have a friend or someone you know who lives in France?

If yes, then it should then be quite possible to purchase your bike in France.

As Magnon says;
Quote:
To get a Carte Gris (Registration document) you would need to be resident and have a utility bill in your name at the address where you want to register the bike or get a justacatif de domicile from the Mairie if you are staying with a friend for 3 months or more.
This is just letting the administration know that you are currently residing at that address and that your friend is not taking money from you as in rent. Even if that address is your address for a few days or a week and you're basically just couch-surfing it is where any paper work can be sent to, that is what is important. ** Importantly, the utility invoice does not need to be in your name **.

If your friend is willing, it can be hand written or get a form from the local Mairie's office. You hand that in together with a utility invoice such as EDF (electricity) which will be in your friends name when you do your owner transfer to obtain your Carte Gris which will be in your name.

You will most likely get a temporary CG and then wait for a few days for the final CG to arrive in la poste at the address of your friend.

These few days to wait allow time for preparing the bike or partying!

If the bike is over tens years old, the cost of Carte Gris is halved, my TDM850 is a 2001 model and was €84. Remembering that this cost is a once off cost, no annual cost in France for road tax and such like.

Insurance (assurance in France):
Like I mentioned to you in a pm or another thread, I was able to orgainse very good and affordable assurance with the AXA assurance group. Assurance is a requirement as you need third party person at least. I have some extras such as fire and theft for my bike as well. All up the assurance costs me around €300 a year. Then I am able to have it reduced by a significant amount as the bike is in locked storage for the time I am not in France.

This assurance from AXA that I have is very good as it covers almost all of Europe, Russia included. You don't always get that from other assurance groups. The back of the green assurance card lets you know which countries you are covered in with any particular assurance.

So, back to first question to see if this is at all possible, do you have a friend or contact in France?

Or maybe might someone here on HU who lives in France might be willing to offer Nicola an address for the paperwork side of things?

I hope this helps and for others with the same question.

Regards,
Paul

Edit: Above is from my experience and from having done this two times now, one car and one bike in two different departments in France, bike in Pays de la Loire (dept 44) north west of France and car in Drôme (dept 26) in the amazingly beautiful south east of France.

And I did this only with an Australian passport, no EU passport.

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Last edited by rockwallaby; 19 Jan 2013 at 02:16.
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