Internal Borders to be implemented in the UK
 

As part of the on-going project by the British "New Labour" party to adopt and implement the instruments of a police & surveillance State inside the United Kingdom, on Friday they published their "CONTEST" document which on page 113 under the title "new policing powers to collect advance passenger data on domestic air & sea journeys" it will now be unlawful to book and or take a domestic sea or air journey without providing valid evidence of your identity and address and producing a government ID card, passport or government issued document containing photographic ID.

In practice, you will be required to show your passport or government ID card to take yourself and or your bike on any ferry to i.e. the Scottish Islands, the Channel Islands, Northern Ireland and of course, our beloved TT on the Isle of Man. If you do not have an ID card or passport you will not be permitted the "privilege of travel” within your own country.

You dangerous and untrustworthy individuals who think they can get around the country by flying will have to think again too - same applies for domestic flights.

Home office officials state that they hope that i.e. travel by ferry to the (well know terrorist haunt) The Isle of Skye will encourage travellers to "enrol" in the Government's “National Identity Register” (ID Card scheme) but were unable to explain that given Skye now has a bridge as well as ferries, how this legislation makes that terrorist ravaged Island safer from crafty Achmed who might take the bridge. :oops2:

Pornography loving home secretary Jackie Smith who was recently exposed for taking £116,000 of taxpayer’s money for “expenses” for her parent’s house (and also claimed expenses from the taxpayer for those “adult TV channels”) will introduce the law by “statutory instrument” thereby avoiding debate in the House of Commons. In some countries this is known as “law by diktat”.

Last month it was revealed that the Government had set up a new secret establishment to monitor the movements of UK nationals abroad and those with whom they associate.

All e-mail, phone calls text messages and websites visited are also to be monitored by the state.

It is thought that similar measures will be introduced for bus and rail travel after the next election which New Labour claim they will “win handsomely”

The new law will apply to foreign visitors as well as UK nationals (after all, we are all potential terrorists…)

These are internal borders folks, just like the ones they used to have in the good old USSR. :nono:


(the election is just a year away ?c? )

No Comment
 

Hi, no humour meant when I say I won't comment. It all goes on record! Enough to say that I ,,,,no I won't say that. If you push a person they may fall over or step back. Then again they may lash out. I often say, be careful before irritating a cat that it's not actually a tiger you're irritating. Linzi.

Shame on you Linzi for your timidity! A country that cowers before bossy bullies deserves all it gets.

I didn't realise the proposed new law applied to all sea and air journeys. I thought it was just those from NI to GB - I thought it was all part of the government's plot to push NI towards Eire.

Frankly, I doubt there's anyone from MI5/~ reading the HUBB. At least, not on official business. But if there is, so what?

I'll say it even if you won't: The present government seems to have nothing better to do than dream up new ways of bossing us about. We have ourselves to blame if we put up with it.

PS I doubt Cameron's bunch would be much better.

Moi? Non!
 

Me timid? No, you misunderstand. Linzi.

As I understand it, yachtsmen are also required to produce passage plans and submit these to the authorities before leaving or entering the country. This will force people to put to sea at the time and date they have submitted, should bad weather prevent them leaving or make them enter a different port than intended they will be in breach of the law and WILL be prosecuted. How many lives have to be lost or civil liberties infringed before we all stand as one people and rise against this dictator Gordon Brown and his labour party?? Maybe it's time to lobby our MPs and put the fear of which ever god you follow in to him.

Paul.

Let's see if I get searched really hard in June as I board the ferry.

Ah! You are the cat/tiger. Not the government. Apologies.

I reckon you'll be okay. Before entering customs though, you may wish to evacuate your bowels.

I just heard on the World Service that the freedom loving Chinese Government will re-open Tibet to tourists on April 5th. That's not really related to my post except that the UK government now has the (lawful) instruments available to implement similar policies on parts of the UK.

I wonder if at some future point we will hear a similar headline "...the British Government has today announced that the Scottish Islands have now been re-opened to tourists..."


If you have nothing to fear - you have nothing to hide :clap:

Folks

What's the big deal if they were to implement these changes? It all sounds a bit silly, I agree, but so what? Bureaucracy is silly..... but then it always has been. And if these these changes are brought in then you're gonna have to live wth it anyway. Yes, you can voice your discontent until you're blue in the face but it ain't gonna change anything. If they wanna do it they'll do it. Until it happens don't worry about it, and if it happens then you produce your passport (or whatever else) if asked. We all know that governments the world over do things that some/most people don't like. It's hardly worth getting too excited about. Surely there are other more important things happening in the world (or indeed our own lives!) that you CAN influence so it might be an idea to focus on those first.

Keep the toys in the pram in the meantime though!! lol

No offence intended to anyone.......:nono:

Chris

Don't give up Chris - resistance is NOT futile! :D

It's easier to resist now than wait until you have to show your ID to buy groceries.

Actually, that's a point. They can already look at our visa bills, so why bother making a queue for silly bits of paper and plastic at the ferry terminals? Do they think people who buy guns using used tenners show their own passport? Of course, when said bits of plastic and paper cost £80 a time and only last 10 years and you are the only legal supplier, then you can afford to watch the adult channel as much as you like (or will you go blind? :nono:).

Don't worry MI5 use software that searches out keywords and phrases like bomb, Brown, sniper scope, resistance and so on. So long as we don't use those we are fine. Ooops, seem to have set off a few alarms there.

Of course, if you read your terrorists/freedom fighters handbook as supplied by the British government in 1940 and available in any city library, you'll see it's suggested that you don't use said key words. You should refer to "using the equipment from the dispatch department on our favourite customers order before..." not... well you work it out.

Morons trying to preserve their pointless jobs by ripping off the sheep, pure and simple. :thumbdown:

Andy

Maybe Chris is one of THEM :rofl:

Andy

DOES give results
 

Fastship's last warning about sharing of data bases was reasonable. The law has been delayed. So action is effective. In that case we have a second chance to lose freedoms as the paper will come back for politicians' consideration. It's odd how Brits will take up arms against invasion and resulting fascist laws. But they won't lift a finger against the British government bringing in the same level of and type of laws as AH might have after Unternemung Seeloewen. ( Nazi invasion of UK). We'll be able to avoid learning German but the difference otherwise is really very small. Linzi.

If all this kind of policy implementation and other rights infringements worry you: have a look at a docu-film.

Its called Zeitgeist. Google it.

I won't say that its got me convinced on all fronts, buts its a very interesting view.

£ parts, dealing with the myths, allegations and facts and how they interact:Oganised religion, 911, and the world financial organism, if you can call it that. Its 2 hours long a takes a bit to start, but worth the watch...

It's no biggy.

Where I live, I wouldn't even go down the shops without my ID.

A few years ago, I used to have Spanish lodgers in my house (my gf at the time was Spanish). Once we'd picked them up from the airport and they were settled into their bedroom, they'd all ask if I could take them to the police station so that they could register their prescence. Some of them took quite some convincing of the fact that this is not (currently) necessary in Britain. And that they didn't need to carry around an identity card at all times. They had all grown up with these aspects of a police state so didn't question them.

Unless like Linzi you are being ironic, then I put it to you that you have acquiesced to the police state. Without even realising it.

Dammit, I've been rumbled!!!:eek3: lol
Seriously though folks, it really isn't a big deal, is it?
Annoying? Irritating? Typical of Government officials who haven't anything better to do? Yes to all of these, but think about it.....when you board a flight to go anywhere in the world how many times do you already have to dig out your boarding card?....and in addition you even have to take your bloody shoes and belt off!!! lol It is crazy indeed. You get the card at check in, you show it at security, you show it when you get on the plane, and one one occasion I was even asked for it when I got off!!

Chris

Well...the thing is...I live in a "police state"; Colombia, although some people would have you believe it isn't.

The fact is, most countries operate this way. Everyone needs to carry ID everywhere in Latin America, and if you don't have your ID, you stand a good chance of being locked up.

It’s interesting to me, conditioned by generations of living in a free country and someone who will never accept living in a police state that in the last two posts we have a Colombian, conditioned by generations of living in a military/police state to accept it as normal and a guy from Northern Ireland who wonders if it is really such a big deal. Is this the evolution between the two in action?

Perhaps you can explain to us when it would become such a big deal for you? Perhaps you deserve to live in such a state.

How was the 30 years of war you have just lived through. Was that such a big deal? Nip this thing in the bud and avoid that over here I say. It will come to that otherwise.

IDas
 

This is not about ID cards as are in use in many countries at present or have been in the past. This is also not about a police state. It is so:
The use of insecure computer hard drives to hold ALL information on UK residents. That includes every possible detail that can be thought of or collected. The responsibility to keep this up to date and accurate is the "user's". A fine will be imposed for deliberate or accidental lack of accuracy. The system cannot be 100% secure--fraud, theft, malice, foreign governments. If the country were ever overrun by a foreign power the data base would be really rather useful. Heading for the hills wouldn't help. Once this stuff is on the computers it can't come off. I don't think any regime has boldly gone where the Brutish, I mean British governtment wants to go. To say that the UK's administration systems are too incompetent to make it work is probably true. But that doesn't mean we are OK with the proposed data banks. No, it will be a field day for organized criminals, courts and prisons and tax men. Then there is the guilty untill you've proven yourself innocent now common in UK. If their database days such and such then tough mate-off to prison. I think it is going to be a tough ride. Linzi.

I am sure before they get this proposed system into action - years of computer programmes and paperwork to prepare the current government will be long gone, the country will along with most of Europe be struggling to stay solvent or may even end up in a civil or European war - as the circumstances for such things are really ripening up and I am sure all the Far left or Right wing activists, Radicals or Liberators are stirring up for the final push to overthrow someone or other so dont worry about it I am sure it will possibly come this way then we can all Live like communists, Fascists or whatever the circumstances bring along - if it all gets too bad go off on a trip somewhere nice and come back when its all blown over after all there will be no reason to stay here - Russia is nice in Late May and once your in is a reasonably free country these days -well compared to here anyway. :mchappy:

Timing
 

I agree Jake but I fear that first the whole lot of data will be put online and can't then be removed. Later will come the excitement and opportunities for action and some to take advantage during the next round of shuffling. Musn't grumble. Linzi.

Oh Grumble you must, tis the lot of the Englishman - the scots have a saying - An Englishman is never so content but when he is Grumbling cant let the side down now can we.

Also remember - Englishmen never will be slaves: they are free to do whatever the government and public opinion allow them to do.

Oi! I resemble that comment :cool4:

Ah but
 

But I AM Scots! Well not really anymore. Linzi.

Oooh ! Bugger !!

What do you mean not now really ?

Generalising
 

Well to be Scots it's really necessary to be either a heavy drinker of lager and whisky or T-total. I take lager every so often. I only recently learned that Ibrox football ground isn't in London. I am usually mistaken for a Canadion due to my accent. I don't get really dangerously aggressive if called English. I haven't been back in the incredibly beautiful land for a looooong time. I hate stewed veggies. I don't drink Barr's Irn Bru, eat salt, fish and chips or anything fried. And I can't stand bloody bagpipes and kilts, highland dancing and all that Victorian shit. I'd probably be disbarred if I claimed to be Scots! Oh and never been to a Burns Supper. Linzi.

Linzi I think you have blown it now - there will be a hoot squad on the way If you here the faint sound of pipes in the wind and see Brief flashes of tartan in the crouded streets of Brighton out the corner of the eye - you know there onto you.

Hm
 

Well the one good thing of all that tartan thing is the sexy mini kilt on girls with the right figure-lovely. No sporran of course as there's nothing to hold down. I'd hate to see what would happen to a guy in a kilt here! That would lead to some misunderstanding I fear. I'll stick to skin tight leather myself. Linzi.

Just seen this thread. Are readers aware that from next January, air passengers to the US from Europe will be required to provide DNA samples at check-in?

Sorry - Britons never shall be slaves. They hope.

I think Chris was replying to my comment/joke suggesting he was working for UK Gov.

Andy

I must admit to being slightly confused about this as I can't see what's different to this and what we have to do now....

I fly a lot internally in the UK - have been for years and years - and every time I fly I HAVE to present either my passport or my driving licence as photo ID - I've tried other things but no-go.... so what's changed? Have I missed something?

m

The current airport situation has, i believe, a mixed legal basis. The civil aviation laws are a bit carte blanche in that they allow the operator to refuse to take any passenger and ask for CAA/police help to do it. Refuse to show ID and the operator will refuse to let you fly (their choice). Walk away and that's it, you didn't break a law. Resist and you'll be arrested under public order offenses (or carte blanche anti-terror laws brought in after the New York attacks). The airports have the security and will refuse to let you fly due to the legal help, insurance protection and staff protection this gives, not because they are legally required to. It's hard to tell if Airline, Airport or Border staff check your ID on an internal flight as most airports do international stuff too, for which border laws apply. It is no offence to tell a police constable or border employee your name and address and then give them the choice of arresting you or ****ing off, if you are a UK resident still in the UK (and not showing any inclination to cross an international border).

So now go from your local flying or sailing club to a mates club across the country. No ID required, it's the same as taking a bus or driving. Go by ferry from a port that only serves a UK territory and likewise no ID unless the operator introduces it off their own bat.

The change in the law is to make the flying club people and small ferries check ID. The same legislation could be used to set up police checkpoints at every county boundry or street corner. If a yatchsman going from Cardiff to Bristol has to show ID, why not one going from Kingston to Richmond? If the boats get checked why not cars, busses, bikes, trains and pedestrians? Tell the copper you've left your £80 bit of paper at home and you are going for a ride in their van. You will then be guilty of the new offence of failing to provide documentary evidence of your identity.

The next step will be "allowing" you to "pre-book" your journey to avoid the queues to the checkpoints. All of a sudden HM Gov know where you are 24 hours a day seven days a week. What they do with that information is usually scary and involves camps with electric fences.

Andy

Yes, you have missed much.

Just to address your airline check in point first, in a previous life I was instrumental in setting up some of the UK’s fist Low Cost Carriers (LCC’s). In the early days the crude revenue management systems of the time priced long dated tickets at for example £1.00, short dated/walk up tickets at say £250.00 and were non transferable. Very quickly, a grey market developed whereby people bought the long dated tickets in bulk to sell to people who wanted to travel immediately or almost immediately at 1,000%+ mark ups. To counter this, the LCC’s stipulated proof of identity in order to protect their pricing mechanisms. This has evolved into photographic ID and passports.

Thus evolved the erroneous supposition that passports or ID cards were a government mandate, a supposition which for obvious reasons the LCC’s were not eager to contradict. To date, no legislative requirement exists for passengers to produce passports at check-in. After 9/11 the government found it convenient that this convention existed and should be perpetuated. In fact, under Schengen it is illegal for intra-European travel for this to be a requirement. For extra EU travel i.e. the United States it is also not a requirement but the carrier will be charged (much to their irritation) by that state for the costs of re-patriating a passenger who is refused entry for passport irregularities, hence the carriers eagerness to ensure all passengers have valid passports.

I have no knowledge of the poster who said the US will require DNA sampling at their borders but the UK home office has a not so covert initiative under way to ensure all UK citizens are on the police DNA profile database. To date, one in twelve of us are, including a seven month old infant.

Going back to your question “what have I missed?” you will see that under EU legislation it is in fact illegal to make you present your passport for intra-EU travel whereas under the new UK legislation the state can prohibit you from travelling freely WITHIN YOUR OWN COUNTRY unless you conform to the edict (which is why a statutory instrument was needed to make this law), thus contradicting one of the basic tenets of British common law and of magna carta dating back to 1215; the freedom of movement unhindered by the state, one of the very definitions of being British. It is this that the New Labour party is systematically overturning and it is changing the definition of what it is to be a free British citizen/subject that the New Labour party is challenging. You have been re-designated as something non-British and it was done to you without parliamentary debate.

In fact, the United States took this basic tenet of (English) common law and enshrined it in their constitution as a fundamental Constitutional right.

Next year there will be a general election. The best way you can act and something they fear most of all would be to tick the box that is NOT New Labour.

Good night and Good Luck.


As a postscript, readers may still think it plausible to monitor travellers on vulnerable public transport such as ships. However, consider this; if the state deems it “not in the public interest” to allow demonstrators to protest as say…the G20 summit they now have the statutory means to do so. An internal border at the M25 perhaps?
:clap:

Ahem, today's date?

DOH!:blushing:

So Australia won't be allowing in my Spaghetti tree either?

Andy

Afdj
 

Is that under the new AFD Directive?

Anyway folks, getting back to the original post........is this the motion that was refused yesterday? Something about storing info on people travelling to/from Southern Ireland from the UK? If so, what was all the feckin fuss about in the first place. Honestly, as if there weren't more important things in the world.......like me finding out one of my tyres had 1psi less than it should have. I was gutted when I found that out. Can you imagine my shock, horror and anger? Never mind my disappointment, I won't go into that as it's a whole new ball game. And then when I got home the missus told me she wasn't happy with our life. She said I was always watching sport on telly. If it wasn't football it was rugby, golf, darts, tennis or whatever else. So I sneakily booked a table for 2 to try and patch things up. By 9pm that night things were even worse........she hadn't potted a single red!!! :(

Chris

No that is something entirely different but see if you can figure out which famous book this passage comes from:-

""They were born, they grew up in the gutters, they went to work at twelve, they passed through a brief blossoming period of beauty and sexual desire, they married at twenty, they were middle-aged at thirty, they died, for the most part, at sixty. Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbors, films, football, beer, and, above all, gambling filled up the horizon of their minds.""

:rolleyes2:

Mr Orwell, I presume? Welcome to the Ministry of Love, or Lurve as we say in Newspeak...