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Help me overcome my fear!
Hi everyone,
My name is Paddy, I'm 25 and live in London. My current ride is a Vespa ET2 50cc Scooter. Not quite a mean machine, but very handy for getting two and from work (Bus - 40 mins, Scooter - 15 mins). I really feel I'm ready to upgrade to a tourer, but have heard so many scare stories! Family, friends, other bikers... People make it out to be an inevitability that you'll crash! I'm a very safe and careful driver in every respect and have been driving cars for 8 years without a single bump. I trust my judgement and take great care when on the road. Please, someone, put this into context! Is biking really that dangerous? Has everyone here crashed? Is it really inevitable? Any response would be greatly appreciated! http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Paddy |
Well, I live in a good size city also, and I would feel much less safe on a tiny scooter than a motorcycle. So I think if you are brave enough to ride around London on a little scooter, you are one step ahead of most people.
-Dave |
I live in a small city, but IMO, you can get whacked anywhere, city or country side.
If you can do London, you can handle anything, but if I could offer 1 piece of advice (at least it works for me) don't trust anyone, I treat all drivers like there idiots. Hope I haven't jinxed myself. |
As the two guys above said, accidents can happen anywhere & I'd rather have a larger bike than a lightweight for road use. Bigger bikes these days normally have excellent brakes & secure handling.
City riding presents very different dangers from riding in the countryside. With city riding, you have potential danger approaching from all directions, can be overwhelming in a strange (foreign) city. In the countryside, some drivers assume there's no one else about & don't bother stopping at junctions etc. There's also the ever present danger of cow shit & farm muck spread liberally across the road on blind bends. Don't let any of the above put you off, the fun & great experiences far outweigh the risks. You only have to read a few of the trips on sites like this to understand. |
Hi Paddy,
I've been riding motorbikes for nearly 30 years. When I was young I crashed a few times, but was never serioulsly hurt ( I never went to hospital ) . Nowadays I only crash when riding off-road and that doesn't count. The best advice, as said above , is to treat ALL car drivers as if they are not only idiots but blind idiots. They won't see you because they don't look, but so long as you're ready for them you should be OK. I commute in and out of London every day and have done so without incident for over 10 years. Go for it. You'll love it. |
I ride both an old Vespa (for the city) and a BMW R 1100 GS (for long-distance travelling), quite different tipes of bikes.
While Vespa is much more agile in the city traffic, it has horrible brakes and it's not stable at all, especially on wet roads. GS is much safer, except that for the power: if you drive much faster than with the Vespa (and it's usually happen), at the end Vespa is less dangerous... So my advice is: buy a powerful bike if you are able to drive carefully, if you enjoy the power so much that you can not ride slowly, keep your Vespa! |
Hi everyone,
Thanks for the excellent responses! I have been looking around the web and have come accross a nice Honda City Fly 125cc that looks pretty promising. In any case it will have better brakes than the Vespa and much better handling. I am seriously considering going for it. If I chose to upgrade at some point in the future I will in any case have benfitted from the experience of having manual gear shifting and a more accurate riding posture... Richard - It's encouraging to hear from a fellow Londoner who's had good experiences! Does it make sense to go for a 125 and work my way up or should I just bite the bullet and get a 250 or higher? |
Hey Paddy
To put it simply, hundreds of thousands of motorcycles are driven millions of miles every day. It is not motorcycles that are dangerous it is the people operating them. My advice is, do a proper training course and get out there and do it. ------------------ The electric monk always has faith. |
Paddy, you're right to be apprehensive and that's the best frame of mind to start off with. The single most helpful piece of advice is to do a course in advanced riding techniques. Admittedly some of what is taught is a little stodgy (and some of the people can be a bit tedious) but there is also much excellent stuff, particularly about things like extending your range of vision, road positioning, counter-steering, braking techniques, survival tips, reading the road ahead etc. All this applies equally to scooters and bikes. Once the techniques are explained and practised they seem rather obvious, but they are not necessarily intuitive. I did a course after having ridden for 25 years or so and was surprised at how much I didn't know. It makes your riding safer, more efficient, much more enjoyable - and actually quicker. There are various organisations that do the training - see Motor Cycle News.
All the same, expect the occasional accident because even with constant vigilance and a defensive attitude it's always possible for a motorist to find a new way of taking you by surprise. I have commuted about 15,000 miles p.a. for the past 14 years in all seasons on a mix of country lanes, dual carriageways, motorways and urban streets into central London. I ride reasonably briskly using an FJ1200 or a Thunderace and on average seem to have one accident about every 3 years. I don't know how this compares with others but would be interested to hear. Neil. |
As far as big bike verses small bike in the city is concerened they are both as dangerous as each other. Alot of peoples (Especially Parents) fears are based on media portrail of bikers and bike accident
i.e Story: Biker on high power 150mph machine fails to avoid colision. Truth: I was riding at 15 mph on a Fireblade when an idiot in a Merc pulled into me at a staggered junction. By the way it was my first collision in 12 years of riding and over 70k miles. Some things to do are get some advanced traing after doing your DAS course and also do som eX-counrty riding that will help you handling skills. Charlie |
hey man
dont be scared nor be put off either its all up to the individual yes you allways need to take extra care when on two wheels,allways looking out for the idiots on the road believe you me theres plenty about,but you can get wiped out just as easilly on a scooter as a big bike its all down to the care you take on the road,allways regarding the idiots out there,hell you can get killed crossing the road on foot. ive been biking for 25 yrs plus and only mishaps i had was in my youth when i was wreckless and took less care. the bike is as only as safe as the rider,i live in essex where is highest bike fatalities in uk.whenever you read the newspaper article it goes like this. motorcyclist looses control in high speed colision and hits central resevation, or speeding motorcyclist colides with car,its not allways the motorcyclists fault,most motorcyclists are very carefull and you have to be and take the extra care.a lot of people like to label us bikers as wreckless and thats bullshit most of us are good carefull riders who ride to stay alive,the last thing we want is to cause a accident or be involved in one. take a bold step foward and get yourself a nice bike nomatter how big it is just be a safe rider,ride to stay alive. i wish you many happy years of safe uneventfull biking regds the makiwa |
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If this is correct, then I highly recommend you consider the larger of the two sizes (the 250 cc) - and even that is kind of small, you would need to plan your routes rather carefully so that you are never on a roadway with a speed limit higher than 45 or 50 MPH. Keep in mind that if you plan to 'tour', you will be carrying more baggage with you than what you carry back and forth to work each day. To pull this load, you need sufficient horsepower, and generally speaking, about 500cc's is the minimum size that you can safely start touring with. If you buy a moto that is too small (too underpowered) for the purpose that you intend to use it for, you will be creating your own safety problems. You won't feel comfortable travelling at the speeds that the cross-country traffic moves at, you won't have the power you need to pass slow trucks and farm vehicles, and you will be over-working the motorcycle if you ride through hilly country. The most important factor you should be considering is horsepower. There is a great difference between the horsepower output of a 250 cc scooter, and that of a 250 cc dirt bike. Not to mention that the dirt bike is probably lighter as well. I could do a cross-country tour on a 250cc bike, but that would be the smallest size I would ever consider doing it with. I still have bad memories of doing a cross-Canada trip on a Honda 360 thirty years ago. The bike was way hell underpowered for the purpose, if the wind was blowing the wrong way, it was running flat-out all the time just keeping up with the 60 to 65 MPH traffic flow. It was a new bike, too, therefore in good condition. Hope this helps you with your planning and decision-making. |
The stats are clear: biking is dangerous. In NZ the odds of a biker dying or being injured in the course of his lifetime are the same as the troops had back in the wars, and we made great cannon fodder! It's best not to ride unless you are really, really burning to do so, you know, when you find yourself making broom-broom noises and drooling over parked Ducatis, because there has to be a lot of reward for assuming this much risk. I'm a hardcore biker but I've never pushed anyone to have a go, and I really wouldn't want, say, my niece, to start. That said, a 250cc+ bike would be preferable to a Vespa to benefit from the handling and ability to keep up with traffic; it'd be okay for touring.
My two cents, James [This message has been edited by JamesCo (edited 16 February 2005).] |
Hi,
I came out of hospital mid December, there was sand in a turn, lost control totally in 80 km/h and crashed my leg into tarmac, breaking knee, wasn't a pleasure! When I came out of hospital I told myself "if I ever ride a motorcycle again, I'll allways be carefull" ! Now a week ago, I rode in the city, suddenly as I'm rolling forward on the little city street, a car comes with an incredible speed from the left...cutting my way off, believe me he was within 3 meters from my front wheel, I hit my "excellent" Yam600XTZ back break...blocking the wheel immediately.. and making bike slide forward like a supermoto, the car blew on in front me and I was able to release the break and escape the space behind the car, it was my first matrix like bike stunt a quiet sunny afternoon in city!! In my mind it still feels like I drive thru a car without hitting it, it was that close ! I thank my guardian angel once again, cause it was unbelievable how I escaped a bad crash. Do as the guys just said, DONT TRUST ANYONE, and be PARANOID. Actually fear is not something you should take away.. Bye Matt |
There's no getting away from it... travel on two wheels is far more dangerous than a car... HOWEVER, it's loads more fun. I am a scooterist first and foremost. I've been riding Vespas in London for 5 years, but I also have a meaty BMW R65. Not the fastest bike in the world, but it has much more road presence, bigger wheels so that your spine isn't jarred avery time you go over a hole, and it's LOUD. I've had two Vespas written off, both times I was hit from behind. If a car does that, it goes straight into the Vespa's bodywork. on the bike, it'll hit the wheel... which I'm hoping will be preferable if (heaven forbid) it happens again. I've also found that cars are much less likely to let a biker out of a junction than a scooterist pootling around on a classic Vespa. However, if need be I can be much more intimidating on my horse-sized bike if I need to shout at some jackass in a car that's just cut me up.
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Hi. I've been riding bikes for over 30 years now and at this moment I own a 1200cc GoldWing and an old Honda CB400T
I tour on both bikes. For long trips the GoldWing is much more comfortable and has more luggage capacity but the 400 is very easy to ride on the dirt and on narrow streets and even on the motorway, I can keep up with traffic at 120 km/h and this is a 27 years old bike! If you know what you're doing, big is safer and more comfortable but also a lot more expensive! and sometimes a small bike is just lots of FUN |
Paddy
sorry it may br a bit late now but this is my view. your clearly not a "natural" biker as you would have got something bigger by now - but there is still hope! my advise for a good first bigish bike CB600 Hornet - comfortable fast good handling good brakes, some may say its a little too powerful but the throttle goes both ways. it will tour but with a small tank you will get plenty of full stops. this was the road bike i got after a few years offroad and i think it was the most fun road bike ive had. if you want to learn to ride swiftly and safely do not get a bike that you think you can ride now (125/250), you will get bored and then buy another bike in 6 months - get one you will grow into and want to improve your skill on to ride faster/safer. ps - your actually in one of the best areas for biking roads in the country - London - its like a racetrack - get up early (0500) on a sunday morning light up the hornet and become an urban terorist - fantastic!!!! i live in scotland now with an 1150 gs but i still miss riding in london. go enjoy - you will crash, but learn to control a big bike on city streets and you will be a confident and safe rider on tour and in the countryside. regards Richard |
I didn't ride a bike till I was 28. Then I decided to buy a scooter. The reason was the same, cheaper, quicker and no parking problem. Like one size bigger push-bike. During my "L" plate time I tried to ride how they tought me on CBT. A year later I read an article and I've started to dream about to ride to Middle East. Firstly I got a proper driving licance for bike and then a F650, read all the middle east form on that site and a lot forms on the web. Still saving money for that.
Summary: - Do what your instructor tell you. - Do lifesaver - Don't ride like in the race track. Streets are not track and your bike is not a racing bike. - Let other riders/drivers overtake you. - Ride only when u feel confortible (Cold, poor visibility, etc.. are dangerous) - F650 is a good bike for first big bike. - Bike suits and equipments are expenstive. Try to buy second hand http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/smile.gif Enjoy! ------------------ ride safely ozhan u. www.ozhanu.com [This message has been edited by ozhanu (edited 24 April 2005).] |
I agree with the previous post except two small things;
A road is not a racetrack but trying to go a little faster than "allowed" on an early Sunday morning is a good way to improve your driving skills and know what your bike can do. If you are to carefull and have no experience you can come in trouble. Also, I would rather drop my bike in for the frst time in Europe then on some deserted road in Turkey with no help for two days. I do not agree with "Ride only when u feel confortible (Cold, poor visibility, etc.. are dangerous)" If you go touring, even in Europe, you WILL get cold, poor visibility etc so it is better to have experience with it on roads you are familiar with. Learn to ride with all weather conditions (except black ice on the road, then nobody can ride) but be extra carefull. I do agree a 600 or 650 is a good size to start and good enough for touring. I drove my SR500 single that I had as one of my first bikes from Holland to England, Belgium, Luxembourg Switzerland, Italy and Germany and had a wonderfull time. 500 or 600 cc is very good for a starters bike. Buy that bike and start having lots of fun :-) |
...deserted road in Turkey?? Where??
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help me overcome my fear ?
good philosophical subject :-) back to sartre, camus ... are you existentialist, fear of what : yourself doing a trip, others ? i m teasing, joking, sorry ... i have fear and doubts like you. if you had no fear, you d be crazy :-) travelling is not so difficult, it s all about about common sense and logic, like at home. i have no real global concrete idea about fear (telling you, you should do this, that ...) after a few months (around 30) and a few kms (around 70 000) on the road :-). now, my trip is over. here are a few ideas to maybe overcome your fear, simply. is human being good or bad !?! i only met nice people willing to help, very very few with bad intentions. fear like doubts are human feelings and you should (as you do), otherwise you d be crazy (again!) but frankly you shouldn t worry too much ... going or not going on a trip is a personnal decision : if you have a family, enough money to do it, a career etc ... you may think yes i should go or no i shouldn t go. get prepared well before leaving : choose a good bike, know it well, good clothes and protections, all the common basic advice ... fear can also be related to risks : do your "risks analysis" : knowing yourself leaving an environment that you know to an other environment that you don t know. there are two kinds of risks : 1- the ones you can protect yourself against (ex : you can take a big petrol tank or a petrol jerrican because you know in advance the risk that in some regions there are not so many petrol stations. ex : take a travel insurance because you know in advance the risk that if something bad happens to you, it ll be usefull). 2- the ones you can t protect yourself against (ex : you rest under a tree and a branch falls on you). i chose the tree example on purpose : whatever you do, there s risk. finally, if you can do your trip (no family pressure or/and no financial pressure or/and no career pressure etc ...), just do it : only "people doing nothing" have no fear, no doubts, take no risks. there is a post about dos and donts here on the hubb, maybe it can give you also some ideas ... that s what i replied, partly : civility, politeness, respect rules are universal, like sports and smiles ... everybody, every country, every way of travelling is same same but different ... people who welcome you when you re travelling usually make the difference between you, as an individual, and the citizenship / nationality / governement / economy / politics / religion you belong. have a good trip :-) |
>..deserted road in Turkey?? Where??
OK maybe not a good example but just think of a deserted road in some country, far from home :-) |
ozhanu
some comments do what your instructor tells you - yes during your training/test, after your test go ride and you will know soon enough if you need aditional training - most likely. do lifesaver - this becomes natural. go do a track training school - you will learn alot more about the bikes limits - then transfer to the road - only joking. if you are regularly being overtaken by cars then you should maybe stick to a car. i would actively encourage you to ride in poor weather - your riding skills will be alot better for it. F650 - is a good first bike - but potentially boring after a while. DO NOT BUY SHAND BIKE GEAR - this is what you are counting on to save your life in the event of and accedent - buy the best you can afford and make sure it fits properly - hein gerreke stuff is good quality and good value. Richard |
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