Eastern European tour, Spring '11
 

Hello all,

I'm planning a trip from the UK to Istanbul starting mid April for 3 weeks next year. Most of the trip will be touring around Eastern Europe.

Living close to Newcastle upon Tyne, I'll be getting the ferry to Amsterdam, then my first idea of the route goes like this:

Amsterdam -> Berlin -> Krakow, Poland -> Budapest, Hungary -> Deva, Romania -> Bucharest, Romania -> then across to the Black sea and down the coast as far as possible to Istanbul.

Then back from Istanbul:

Istanbul -> Sofia, Bulgaria -> Belgrade, Serbia -> Zagreb, Croatia -> then skirting the Austrian border to Bratislava, Slovak Republic -> Prague -> then back across Germany to Amsterdam. Just under 4000 miles, I reckon.

This will be my first time motorcycling outside of Western Europe, and am looking to do this on a budget of about £2000.

So, a number of questions for you more seasoned travellers:
- Time of year: Will the weather be OK, especially for the more northerly parts of this trip?
- Mileage: Does 4000 miles on mostley Eastern European roads sound doable in 3 weeks?
- Borders: A lot of this trip will be in the EU, but are there any issues with getting into those that aren't, any special docs I need, etc?
- Budget: To keep costs down I was thinking of doing some camping, but are there any equivalents of e.g. Travelodges in this part of the world?

If anyone has any ideas of places to visit along the way, or equally, to avoid/ Any other general advice will also be welcome.

Thanks in advance,

Nigel.

Nigel

I presume that you are a UK citizen so your EU travel is painless as far as borders go - just make sure that you have insurance cover for Europe and take all your documents with you - driving licence, V5, insurance etc etc.
As far as entering Turkey - it's relatively easy. Visa costs either £10 sterling or 15 euros BUT make sure that the money notes are not torn or defaced as they might be refused (I had a ten pound note refused because it had a small rip, and I do mean small - luckily I had a couple of crisp fivers). Though not essential it might help to have an International Driving Permit (get it from the Post Office) which is useful if stopped as it has translations but remember that it is not a valid substitute for you actual licence which you must take with you (plus counterpart).

You will need a greencard for Turkey but if your insurers don't do them then (and some don't) you can buy third party insurance at the border.

Fuel in Turkey is very expensive as are phone calls back to the UK from your mobile otherwise it is a wonderful country to visit.

4000 miles in 3 weeks is no problem.

Thanks Strimstrum,
Yes, I'm a UK citizen, and the bike is UK registered, so should be no problem with the majority of the trip.

Am looking forward to spending time in Turkey, was surprised to hear that petrol's expensive though!

Thanks again for the advice,

Nigel.

In Eastern Europe, the roads are excellent with perhaps a few exceptions. It depends on whether or not you will ride off the beaten track or stick to major roads. So your estimated distance over this time would be fine I should think.

The time of year will depend on what you want to see and do. Winter is obviously not great on a bike unless you are prepared for snow and freezing temps. Summer is not great because of the hoards of tourists. I would pick autumn or spring if you have the choice.

Btw be aware the max speed limit for ALL motorcycles in Turkey is 70kph (40mph) if you speed, be prepared for very hefty fines in Euros! Apart from that, why only go to Istanbul? There is so much more to see in Turkey and then you have Syria, Jordan, Israel. You could do like a friend of mine, Miquel and take the ferry from Israel to Italy... the options are endless.

Hi Turbocharger,

Thanks for your reply. I'm not indenting to spend the whole 4000 miles on autobahns and motorways, although I will use them to get quickly through western Europe I expect. After that I want to experience the countries I'm travelling through, and not just bypass them.

Whilst I would love to go further into Asia and/or into N Africa, time is the limiting factor, and 3 weeks is the max I can get for this trip (combination of family and work, you know how it is). So realistically, my aim is to get to Istanbul and back (just to say I rode to Asia!), taking my time and soaking up the atmosphere of places on the way.

Thx for the tip off about speed limits in Turkey - It'll be hard to keep the speed down if the roads are good!:thumbup1:

BTW, when travelling through these various countries, what is the best currency to have - Euros, Sterling or US Dollars? Or should I exchange into the local currency of wherever I am?

Thx, Nigel.

Nigel where to start. You say April. Can I say to you look at end of May and run in to the middle of June. You are going in land all the way. Central Europe and the hook a right to travel south. I've done Budapest last year in April and it rained 17 day's out of 20. I learned from that. That April shower's brings out the May flower's. Try and find some one to go with you, Sharing a cheap hotel room, is about the same price as two tent's on a camp site. Formula one room's are about 30 euros a night for two and a camp site runs out at about 12 Euros. So for a few bob extra. You get a shower and a bed and a solid roof over your head.

Some of the place's you are talking about going to you have to be careful. As the police in some of the old east European country's will rob you blind for made up traffic offence's. And they will take about £180 a go off of you. No argument, in-pound your bike and drive you to a hole in the wall machine to get the money. Then smile at you as you ride away knowing that you have just been mugged by the police.

I would like to go to Greece next year at the time I was saying. So if you are interested in changing your destination from Istanbul to Athens. And riding the same way back, I know a place in Budapest was can stay at. And I'm interested in seeing the death camp's in Poland. But like all trip's and plan's. By day two you have a destination. But the time table gets slightly changed.
Let me know.

John933

Hi John,
Can't change the dates unfortunately, as it's the only time I can get off work :(

I'll be doing the whole journey alone, but will no doubt meet up with some people I know along the way. I think I might forget camping at that time of the year, and go with the cheap motel/B&B option. At least if it rains I can get dried.

Am a bit worried about what you say about the cops in some countries - which countries have you had trouble in? Has anyone else experienced this, and how's best to handle it?

Thanks, Nigel.

Nigel

My pal, Mark, and I travelled all the way down from Tallin in Estonia through Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czech Republic and whilst we saw cops with laser speed traps we were never stopped or stiffed for non existent traffic offences.

And just to reiterate Turbochargers warning about Turkey - speed limits are 70kph and not much leeway. The benefit from this is that the petrol prices are so steep that riding at 42mph gives you more mpg so it's a bit of a trade off plus you get to see more things at a slower pace.

If you want to go to Asia I would avoid Istanbul and go south to the Gallipoli peninsula and then get a ferry at cannakale for a few pounds - then you arrive in Asia but much better scenery plus further south the weather might be just a shade drier and warmer.

Martin

I've ridden Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czech Rep.,Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria. I got stopped for speeding in Bulgaria and got a telling off.

In the Baltics I got stopped by a Police Office, he just wanted to look at my bike, shook my hand, appologised and sent me on my way.

In Romania (crossing the Danube to Bulgaria) the border guards were taking money form some Romains in UK registered cars, they didn't bother me at all.

In nearly every country you go to, there will be someone who will give you a 'horror' story about the folk in the next.

Some people will have bad experiences, many others will have great experiences, but you don't often hear about them as bad news is more interesting than good.....

Like every one has said, it's more story's you hear then has happened to me. Ride ran a story about it, was it in last month mag? That's the one I was thinking of when I was typing it up. Just for a precaution I take a couple of coloured photo copy of my V5 and MOT. If you tell the print shop what you want it for they run you up a couple of copy's. easer to hand over a copy it you think you are in a doggy place. And then say you'll be back with what ever money they ask for. But in fact you just F/off. And leave the copy. saves you a few bob.

John933

+1

Also, I spent alot of time getting a good quality copy of my licence and keep it in a well used wallet. In that wallet I keep enough money for the day and no more, I also keep a selection of defunkt credit cards, old notes, recipts some false phone numbers, pictures of randon people (facebook is good for that) - it looks and feels like my everyday wallet. It's just precautionary, but it allows you to 'loose' your wallet if you need to - not that I ever have.

Keep your originals safe in you luggage somewhere, just in case.....

I keep a U-Tag around my neck with all the real information, and electronic coppies of everything. Some dislike this, for me it works.

Hi Nigel,

I'm back home 2 weeks now from my Balkan motorbike tour. I started off in Belgium and drove via Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia, Bulgaria, Turkey, Greece, Macedonia, Albania, Montenegro, Croatia,.. back to Belgium.

In this 3 weeks / 6500km tour I have had no problems at all with police or at the borders. There are some police patrols on the roads in Bulgaria (and a lot of speedguns in Albania !) but, when you stick to the speedlimits there is no problem at all. No one has stopped me.
It's a great place to visit ! enjoy !! I'm not sure about the weather though... I've had some days of HEAVY rain in Albania & Montenegro. And I can assure you.. it's no fun driving in the pouring rain all day on potholed roads.
But off course, when you have the luck of sunny weather it's fun !

Peter

Thanks to everyone, I think my mind has been put at rest regarding the cops and trumped up charges. Seems that there are stories of this happening, but no one who's replied has actually witnessed it or had it hapen to them. There will be dodgy people wherever you go, so I guess as long as you take precautions and keep your wits about you, you'll probably be OK.

Also, no one has seen my route and said not to go here or there, so I guess it's basically sound. Now just need to sort out a bit more detail of what I want to see. I think getting the balance right between having a fully timetabled prescripted tour, and having a vague idea about where I want to go, is the difficult part. I don't want to waste time wandering around aimlessly, but on the other hand, want the flexibility to make unplanned stops if I see something interesting!

I think planning the trip is almost as much fun as actually going on it!

Thanks again everyone,
Nigel.:thumbup1:

Gosh Nigel thats late for a mid life crisis road trip thought that was done around 40ish :innocent:.
I love the planning stage of the trip every bit as much as the trip itself, and lets face it there is no way you are going to get lost touring around on google maps.
I travelled with husband & 2 friends this year to Romania & back, fab trip plenty to see, but as your going early in the year the Transfagarasan will still be closed. In Romania choose a fairly low level route as the road surfaces seem more chewed up in the higher elevations. We loved Slovenia for the scenery just as beautiful as Austria.
Remember you will need a lot of motorway passes vignettes think we had 3 but probably should have been 4 just took a risk.
If your lucky like me you can fill your bike up in Germany on the return trip then not have to get more fuel until you get back to UK, The Netherlands fuel is even more expensive than ours. I am the envy of our group I get around 260 miles to a tank :-).
You wont be stuck for buying food in Hungry, there is a Tesco at almost every junction or so it seems. Hungarian bike riders are the most friendly and helpful as we found out when someone led us a quick way to the motorway.
Enjoy your winter with google maps and more so enjoy your trip.

Liz

Haha, you're probably right - I think I'm on to my second or maybe third mid-life crisis now!! However, being the eternal optimist I'm hoping that 50 will be my mid-life, not forty!:thumbup1:

Thanks for the advice re. roads and petrol, however not sure what a vignette is? Is it a toll ticket or something. I guess I could Google it, just being a bit lazy!

Thx, Nigel.

OK, so I got off my lazy backside and looked up Vignette on Wikipedia - explanation here

Well, your trip sounds nice but on Your way back I would add some Croatian coast also avoiding Vienna is a big miss. And in Bratislava there is little (nothing special) to see. Also three weeks are not enough to see all that, most of your time you will spend on the road and gas stations, you can do that at home. I think that your budget is a bit too low...
On your place I would do a shorter run but take more time to actualy see something.

Cheers

Nikola

:thumbup1:

Thanks for your feedback Nikola, I have made some changes to my route - essentially reversing it (so I do the more southerly part first - hopefully a bit warmer that way), and taking in Vienna rather than Bratislava, as you suggest. I am also looking at taking in some of the Ionian coast.

As you suggest, although I love riding my bike, I want to see something of the countries whilst I'm there so am looking to see the best way of achieveing the happy medium.

Thanks again,
Nigel.

1. April would be a bit cold at high mountain passes especially in Romania and Bulgaria. Late April or Early may looks better.

2. Mileage: Better to add the half of planned mileage :) You will understand at the end of trip.

3. No problem at borders, especiallay Turkey. You will need a green card. Not sure about Carnet De Passage: Better to check.

4. Budget... It's all about your standards :)

Turkish speed limits are improved!
 

Well The speed limits over here in Turkiye are improved a bit.
Our lobbying efforts have worked and the result is as below;

The inner city, 50kms/hr same as cars
The intercity 2 lane (undivided roads) 70km/h (Cars 90 this is dumb)
The intercity divided highway 90km/h (Cars 110 even dumber)
Highway (paid roads) 100km Cars 120 (well as I said)

The most busy roads will have several speed checks. So watch for that unmarked car parked by the shadow of a tree. And beware the laser detectors are highly illegal.

But if you are preferig the secondary roads and off the beatem tracks there will be less trafiic less police and more of the sight seeings.

Also check the Speed Trap Sharing System - Trapster it has a fair amount of contribution from Turkiye as well.

Overall, I would not speed and push my luck. (You want to go fast go to Germany or Italy). Enjoy the scenary.

And about Istanbul. Now this is a city of 12million+. But you gotta see it. It will take some planning in advance. However a simple tea by the Bosphorus will be your reward. There are many travel books about Turkiye and Istanbul. Get one, lonely planet or rough guides are my favourites.

Good luck.

Back in the 90s I used to encounter a lot of dodgy police and border guards in Hungary and Romania. Sometimes they wanted some "backsheesh" (cash) but a cheaper option was to come prepared with a bottle of something or even a package of coffee (really - you used to be able to give civil servants a package of coffee as well to reduce the amount of bureaucracy you normally had to deal with). I remember that the lorry and mini-bus drivers used to just pull out a package of coffee and hand it to the border guards and then drive off.

In Romania, there's still a lot of corruption but it doesn't seem to be as bad as it once was. I think that with the recent push to eliminate corruption (at least among civil servants) and the large number of foreigners who are now living and travelling in this region, fewer cops are so blatant about asking for a bribe. But maybe it's just that now I can speak Romanian so they don't see me as an easy mark.

I haven't had any hassles in Hungary for a long time.

Police
 

I travelled Europe last year, got stopped by the police 4 times, once in Romania where I genuinely was speeding - actually keeping up with the traffic, there aren't really any motorways in Romania so all the Turkish & Hungarian truckers use the same roads as you will, and if you're in the way they'll happily try to force you off the road. The cop just gave me a warning though.

In Ukraine they just wanted money, but I think there is a tendancy for people to know that's what they expect and just give it to them. I was prepared to do that, but tried just saying "I don't understand" a few times. Not only do they not have very good English, the ones that stopped me seemed to be very reluctant to actually ask for money - they seemed to rely on the fact that you would understand the subtext and play your part, but if you just didn't follow the script (not getting angry or anything) they gave up. It may have helped being a girl on my own, I heard stories from guys travelling who found the cops to be more agressive.

Re time I would say that's a long way to go in 3 weeks, not saying you won't make it but make sure you don't fix in your head "I have to get here", if you don't get to Asia it will hopefully be because you've had lots of interesting experiences on the way.

Re budget my 4 months cost me about £5000 so you should be fine!

Have fun, good luck, and enjoy!

Laura

Copped it.
 

Hi Fatbot, regards police and made up charges.....In Montenegro's capital, around 11pm I followed the Montenegran car infront as the green filter light came on. Just round the corner were too police and a parked police car. "You just rode through a red light". Well what can you say to that? My documents were to be held until I returned with cash from a post office...next day. I dumbly asked if there was more than one post office in town. They gave up, handed back my documents and wished me a good visit. The woman from the car was meantime really livid. A definite case of a stitch up. I'd expect that not driving after about 9pm would reduce the chances of this one. It pays to appear not be "well travelled and experienced" sometimes. Montenegro is magnificent and faultless for travel with only some dodgy police tactics to criticise. Absolutely do not be put off by this. Just try to act stupid, if fleeced try to be phylosophical about it. Don't hand over cash, play it out. Lindsay.

In Romania I can say that the amount of crocked cops just stopping you and inventing charges has decreased close to 0. On the other hand they bought more speed traps and are using them to give fines instead of increase the traffic safety.

Too many times I've noticed cops hidden in the bushes or just after a corner after a long stretch of straight road just waiting just to catch you. So you should be careful on speeding.

Also, one of the most scenic roads in Romania ( Transfagarasan - link) will probably still be closed during April so yes, maybe it is better to revers your route.

If by any change you need any information, help or advice regarding to the Romanian leg of the trip please do not hesitate to contact me.

Go for this! :scooter:
It's a good tour schedule, enough money, good timing, all replies you've got are right, I mean really helpful and correct info. You can believe me, I've done the Budapest to Istanbul, as tour guide several times, it's an amazing area.
Need more info or ideas? Mail me.

FTH motorcycle rental & tours

I did a route very similar to yours in 1997, taking 3 weeks (don't remember total mileage) and it was a bit of a rush. So maybe keep your route and timings flexible.

I did another trip around E. Europe in 1999 with more time, and went again to Istanbul in Oct 2009 (again open-ended timescale en route to Africa).

Never any trouble with police, but I always practice (once outside of western Europe) having a big smile when being stopped, and as quickly as possible extending my hand for a handshake. The further east you go the better that's received. Nearly always they just want to chat about your journey and your bike.
But, if you're caught in one of the numerous radar checks there's usually no way out. And as has been said here, the fines in Turkey are expensive, a steep sliding scale depending on your speed.
Glad to hear from nomadb that the limits are a little more reasonable now!

Are you still planning to go along the Black Sea coast, presumably in Bulgaria?
I did that in 1997 and there was plenty of camping and cheap hostals, with the road mainly right next to the beach.

In 2009, what a change! The whole coast is now a continuous ribbon of package-holiday type hotels, no camping anywhere, despite our recent maps showing camping sites still existing. There were concrete hotels where every campsite once was. And worse, in October it was right out of season with nearly all the hotels closed. Lots had "For Sale" signs strung across them so I think they had built far too many and business had been bad.
Maybe wild-camping is possible right away from the main roads but we didn't check.

If there are scenic inland routes away from the Black Sea coast I think they might be better.

Istanbul's a great place, and Turkey in general - hope you like tea, you'll be offered plenty of it!
Have a good trip.

Hello,

There are a few German death camp's in Poland. The most known is the Auschwitz-Birkenau near Oświęcim (you can see it here Oswiecim, Polska - Mapy Google / official web site: Auschwitz-Birkenau - Home Page - Museum ).

In gerenal about riding in Poland:
It is much better to go in May. April is usually quite cold, even it snows sometimes.
Quality of the roads might be a problem, but if you stick to the mayor (red on map) roads, you should be fine.
Police should not be a problem neighter. Just do not ride too fast (over 120 km/h outside of the cities, 70-80km/h within cities) and they shouln't be bothering you. Police is motorcycle friendly in most cases. They will check your papers, sometimes check if you haven't drink too much yesterday (limit is 0,2‰), I've talk to them many times and never get a ticket.

If you would have any other questions, please do not hesitate to ask.
Cheers,
Rafal

Hi
Be careful in Slovakia as there are numerous radar traps - basically dont speed as the fine s will make your eyes water .

The motorway from Bratislava to Prague is appalling - my Blackbird and my Gtr basically bounced along it :thumbdown:
Olumouc in E Czech is worth a stop if you are passing by . I travel to Slovakia a couple of times a year to visit friends near Nitra , so post me if you want to ask anything about the country as have just about covered all of it . Same goes for Czech rep - except Prague :thumbup1:

Hi Nigel:

I've done a fair amount of Eastern Europe in the past few years.

I really enjoyed Romania - zero corruption and very friendly customs people. Drivers there can be a little wild, though, so keep your wits about you. I've done Poland several times and enjoyed it as well. Rural Slovakia is delightful, so is Slovenia.

The only country I absolutely would not go back to is Ukraine. I had the same experience as Laura (a few posts above), except in my case the crooked cops were very forthright about asking for money. They didn't even accuse me of speeding, they just wanted to collect their toll. Plus, the roads were wretched (massive pothole suddenly appears in an otherwise smooth looking road), and I got tired of seeing 12 year olds that were knee-walking, floor-licking drunk at 11:00 AM in the morning.

So, I suggest you route around Ukraine if you can.

Michael

What date are you sailing Nigel? My wife and I are doing something similar mid April, not got anything specifically planned other than to follow the sunshine and visit Auschwitz along the way.

I wouldn't say that 50 is too old. like you i'm starting to plan for a long european trip in 2012 and i'll be 60 then. you're never too old. look up ted simon to see what i mean.