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  #16  
Old 1 Feb 2008
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Sound post Tony.

The only variation I would make is to cash in the tax disc as soon as I leave the UK - get it back to the DVLA in the post with the appropriate form and get the cash refund; it is not needed, as you say, while out of the UK and I am assuming that it will be expired by the time you return.

Cheers,
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  #17  
Old 1 Feb 2008
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Dave
When writing that post I did ponder about that (cashing in) but thought on balance, if it is a small amount of money, not to - as it shows a better intent of not trying to 'get away' with money. Another plus for the Magistrate to consider.
Even though, a bike tax is only £64pa.
A car at £180, with the majority remaining, would make me think twice though.

We all have a price on our principles!!
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  #18  
Old 1 Feb 2008
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For the original question.............

........that reminds me: you need to renew the SORN statement, online of course, when it expires at the end of this month or you will get an automatic fine to your last notified address, for £60. The big DVLA computer will send this out automatically, which is how the SORN thing was designed to get us to comply - that's the theory anyway.
I think you get some days of grace, maybe 30, to do this.

Tony,
Yes it may not be worth it for, say, my £15 per year scooter but I have done it many a time over the winter when I have bikes laid up - better off in my pocket than theirs, subject to the law of course, and this is how the system was designed.
MCN is running a story now about how many bikes are not taxed in the UK: of course not, they are not on the public roads!!
Of course, transferring the tax onto fuel would solve the issue immediately, but that is another story altogether.
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  #19  
Old 2 Feb 2008
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nope

DVLA DO NOT make little notes on sticky tabs to keep an eye on you! dont forget they deal with thousands of vehicles on a daily basis and just could'nt keep an eye on everyone! just sorn it and i bet my mate's foreskin on it that they dont contact you.
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  #20  
Old 5 Feb 2008
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Hi all

Thanks for all your help. I WILL insure the car upon my re-entry to the EU but will re-SORN it at the end of Feb. The one thing I wonder about though - is there any legal basis for them telling me I should be paying tax on the car if it's SORNd but on the road outside the EU? I wonder, as it is odd that they told me I hadn't committed an offence by SORNing it between Feb 2007 and Feb 2008 (even though I'd told them I'd taken it out of the EU and continued to use it on roads outside the EU) but would start to do so if I didn't declare it as exported before the present SORN expires at end Feb 2008.

Mark
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  #21  
Old 5 Feb 2008
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Mark

Oh dear. Oh dear. Here we go again....
The overriding theme of replies was to ignore what DVLA say - as they either do not know, or say what they think, or say what they would like, the position to be.

If this was me, I would -

1. Insure - 3rd party minumum, ALWAYS and everywhere!

2. SORN or Tax - must have one, always. SORN it when the existing tax or SORN expires. Do it from an Internet Cafe so you may not get any reply telling you to do otherwise. Maybe get a receipt for a printed copy from the Cafe. Think - Lord Nelson's blind eye !

3. If in doubt, keep documentary proof of dates and countries the vehicle was in, especially while outside the EU.

4. Book an MOT for near your home, as you disembark and drive home until the appointment.

5. Dont worry about Tax until you have the MOT and resume using the UK public roads. The Post Office will issue it starting only in the current month.

6. Let us know how it went.

In the event this may not be totally correct, I would fight anywhere that I behaved reasonably. PM me if it comes to pass.
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  #22  
Old 9 Feb 2008
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Hi Tony

Insurance - agree 100% - will do. Now that it has been explained that I can still get it even without current UK MOT and Road tax, it won't be a problem.

SORN - will do. After all, even if DVLA did keep a note of the information they gave me ("all calls may be recorded for training and quality purposes") then they will have a record of their own ambiguous information - telling me I hadn't committed an offence by SORNing it between Feb 2007 and Feb 2008 (even though I'd told them I'd taken it out of the EU and continued to use it on roads outside the EU) but would start to do so if I didn't declare it as exported before the present SORN expires at end Feb 2008. Surely if I shouldn't have SORNd it, I was committing an offence as soon as I took it outside the EU in 2007!

Let us know how it went - will do. It may not be much before July if all goes well, but I won't forget.

Kind regards

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  #23  
Old 27 Aug 2008
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Hi all

I promised to let you all know how it went, so here goes.

I left Russia on 17 july and as mentioned in another post on the HUBB I was able to buy EU insurance at the Russia/Latvia border. I returned to the UK on 23 July. Aside from a couple of questions from HM Customs at Dover port(the Landcruiser had German-style number plates, so they thought initially I was German) I had no trouble.

I drove the car from Dover to a pre-booked MoT in Hertford (this was the nearest place to Dover where I had access to off-street parking) stopping only to unload the heaviest stuff from the car before MoT-ing it.

The car passed its MoT that day (a cracked number plate and 2 light bulbs was pretty damn good after 64,500 kms!) but I didn't have time to get to the post office that day to get the road tax. I drove the car back to Ealing on the evening of 23 July and bought road tax the next day (from 1 July, not 1 August).

No doubt I am tempting fate by writing this, and maybe there will be a summons waiting for me when I get home this evening, but to date I have not had any trouble from the police or DVLA.

Hope this is useful

Mark
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  #24  
Old 27 Aug 2008
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Well done.
Good man!
Welcome back.

I spent over 5 hours at the Lat/Rus border (M9 E22) in the evening of 16 July, going the other way. Being on I bike I just went to the head of the queues, otherwise it could have several times as long and I would have seen you! Fortunately it only took an hour coming back a month later.

Ealing? About 4 miles away. PM me if you fancy a & chat sometime.
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  #25  
Old 4 Sep 2008
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You're not going to believe this. but..........

Tony - and anyone else who's interested - thank GOD you were on a bike and able to go to the head of the queue at the Lat/Rus border. Just imagine if you were in one of these trucks......

YouTube - Line of trucks at Russia/Latvia border

Tony - have PM'd you.

Mark
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  #26  
Old 4 Sep 2008
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I have a similar situation, so I read with interest.
Me and my Land Cruiser, (2005) left UK in May 2008.
Taxed,
Mot'd
Insured.
Now after several months in Norway, (non EU) my Land Cruiser Tax expired a month after arriving here, so I did a SORN on-line, and pulled the tax disc from the window.
Now my Cruiser has become 3 years old, so needs MOT.
In Norway, only vehicles 4 years old need there first "Technical inspection"
So, what do I do,
I could drive back to UK, get MOT, and drive right back to Norway.
I have no plans to come back to UK for another 12 months maybe.
Do I need UK MOT to keep my insurance valid?
My insurance, fully comprehensive, with Zurich, will renew itself for as long as I make the monthly direct debits.
I have no plan on letting the insurance lapse.
If I have a bump here in Norway, will my UK insurance pay out.
I didn't tell them I have gone to Norway.
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  #27  
Old 4 Sep 2008
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Mark
The line of cars going the same way as those trucks into Rus was about half a mile long the night before. That was my first queue jump, others were at each stopping point in the process - still took over 5 hours!
Got PM - will ring soon.


UK-vette
Your insurance will probably only normally cover you out of UK (EU + Norway and Switzerland usually) for a limited period of maybe 45 or 60 days a year and this is the very minumum legallly necessary cover in whatever country you are in. eg. not even 3P F&T in UK, but RTA (3rd party claims for personal damage only - not their property, that would be down to you). Unless you request (and pay) them to extend the full insurance cover in the UK to outside
In a bad claim they will investigate their responsibility and could ask for proof it was only out of the UK for a limited period and ask you to produce UK credit card fuel receipts, service record etc.
MOT is not a necessity of Insurers unless they specifically say so. Insurers can only use 'no MOT' as an excuse not to pay out if the accident resulted from, or was exacerbated by, a part or function of the vehicle that would have been inspected and cause an MOT failure. ie a split car number plate does not cause accidents, but can you prove the brakes, steering etc of the wreck were up to MOT standard? If not they will seek to resist any claim due to your failure to adequetly maintain it and verify such with an MOT.

Personally I think that you would not be insured if your insurers knew the circumstances you describe.
Although I am the Worlds biggest disregarder of rules, insurers are among the very few people I would always tell the whole and absolute truth to. The financial consequences of a fatality could be with you forever - even if the memory and guilt fades. Think of the compensation awards after running down a bus queue of brain surgeons, barristers and suchlike. (Estate Agents are cheaper right now!)

Tax is an irrelevance for insurance purposes. Insurers only ask for the Tax Disc if there is a write-off so they can try to reclaim the refund!

Despite what DVLA might like to say, I consider it only payable for using a UK registered vehicle on UK public roads and will argue this interpretation in any Court.
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  #28  
Old 5 Sep 2008
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Hi UK_Vette

My understanding is that you are covered under the Green Card Scheme for any 3rd party liability that arises whist you are in the European Economic Area (EEA) and whilst you have a valid UK insurance policy. The Green Card Scheme means you have 3rd party cover anywhere in the EEA (the EU plus Norway, Switzerland, Monaco and Lichtenstein)

I have been told that a green card is not necessary for travel in Europe. Is this true ?

However, you need to take cognisance of
a) the fact that when UK insurance cos talk about 'x days of cover in any other EU country' they are actually talking about comprehensive as distinct from 3rd party cover - so if you have a 'bump' in any country and you haven't contacted the company to arrange cover for your OWN car (which is NOT required by the Green Card scheme, so cos can negotiate whatever restrictions they want) then your company can refuse to pay.
b) as regards 3rd party cover, bear in mind there are EU rules (and presumably Norwegian ones) which stipulate that you must re-register your car in a new EU member state once you have been there for more than 6 months. In the eventuality of a claim arising and the UK insurance co paying out, then finding out that you should have re-registered your car in Norway because you've been there over 6 months, there is nothing to stop them coming after you/your assets as this will mean it transpire that they have paid out unnecessarily.

Hope this helps

Mark
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