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8 Feb 2008
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IMHO ,no , they will not stand up to the bike being dropped or a crash . They are too thin and will deform easily and the seams will split .
Go for something more heavy duty .
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8 Feb 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukiceman
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I think that Dodger has somewhat misunderstood the function of such boxes. If the boxes do not deform in a crash, then your bike frame will. If the boxes are strong enough to withstand a crash without deforming, then you risk all the crash energy going into your frame and damaging or destroying it. Think of modern cars and their construction. I want the boxes to take damage -its cheaper to repair than frame damage.
I have boxes similar to those you show. They are cheaper than others, but I refuse to pay eyewatering prices for an overengineered box. It's a rip off. My boxes (Alpos, 32 litres) do a great job. I made my own carrier and detach points. I do not regard the boxes as some kind of armour, and I suggest that those who do, are not thinking the issue through.
I suggest you go ahead with confidence and get these boxes, if you agree with my view on this.
Good roads!
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8 Feb 2008
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The link was just to Zarges boxes..which i can not talk about in biking terms but we use them to ship scientific equipment to Antarctica, and This is not a delicate operation, Zarges them selves are very tough and if you are shipping a £100K piece of equipment anywhere that it may get nocked around they are the best.. My worry for panniers is that the lids stick out about 1.5cm.. which could hurt in a bang up...
Sw-moto racks are great for fast on and off and for road riders, but if you get into anything harry they shake way to much...
Trust me i am selling a set as soon as i finish my custom panniers...
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9 Feb 2008
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I have to agree with Caminando, your boxes need to be either break-away or soft enough to take some sort of impact energy away from the frame. There's too many bikes out there that have had a simple fall on a rockey road and the sub-frame has bent. The 1200GS is a prime example.
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9 Feb 2008
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I really don't like this kind of aluminum box because they will deform in a simple tip over .
Read some ride reports and talk to people who have had experience with these boxes .
They can be rugged if forces act on them in a vertical direction as in shipping , which is what they were originally designed for .
However on a bike they will be dinged from the side or bottom corner .
I didn't say that boxes should be destruction proof ,as Caminando seems to suggest , but a stronger box than Zarges would be better .
Your boxes will also fit to a mounting frame , many of these will spread the shock load before it gets to the bike frame itself .
Also a bike ,when it goes down at speed on the road ,will tend to slide on it's pannier , Read about Margus's experiences with Jesse style panniers and you will see what I mean .
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ghlight=margus
Go cheap if you wish ,but take a look at Jesse and Happy Trails , Metal Mules and the like before you decide.
BTW, I have a Zarges box here ,so I speak from experience.
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Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."
Last edited by Dodger; 9 Feb 2008 at 06:13.
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9 Feb 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
I really don't like this kind of aluminum box because they will deform in a simple tip over .
Read some ride reports and talk to people who have had experience with these boxes .
They can be rugged if forces act on them in a vertical direction as in shipping , which is what they were originally designed for .
However on a bike they will be dinged from the side or bottom corner .
I didn't say that boxes should be destruction proof ,as Caminando seems to suggest , but a stronger box than Zarges would be better .
Your boxes will also fit to a mounting frame , many of these will spread the shock load before it gets to the bike frame itself .
Also a bike ,when it goes down at speed on the road ,will tend to slide on it's pannier , Read about Margus's experiences with Jesse style panniers and you will see what I mean .
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ghlight=margus
Go cheap if you wish ,but take a look at Jesse and Happy Trails , Metal Mules and the like before you decide.
BTW, I have a Zarges box here, so I speak from experience. |
OK Dodger, I thought you were suggesting destruction resistant boxes. Panniers which deform are the way to go, even if it feels wrong and you may have to buy new ones. However, on the road, if you do crush the panniers, theres a good chance you can straighten them a bit to carry on. And theyll help you slow down in a crash if they deform.
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9 Feb 2008
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These are essentially (by the looks of it) the Alpos boxes made in Slovenia and marketed as bike panniers by Darrs, EIBC and several others.
I bought mine from EIBC and despite initial reservations about the thickness, I've been very pleased with them. Thye DO dent if you drop the bike (or crash obviously) but survive reshaping reasonably well. I have dropped my heavily laden bike on mine several times, had a couple of slow speed off road crumpers and one on road thirty foot slide and they are still going strong. They look a bit battered but that adds to the appeal for me! 
I've also had the in horrendous rain and they don't let in water. The principal of a pannier either detaching from the bike or being soft enough to absorb some of the impact is a good one.
Matt
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*Disclaimer* - I am not saying my bike is better than your bike. I am not saying my way is better than your way. I am not mocking your religion/politics/other belief system. When reading my post imagine me sitting behind a frothing pint of ale, smiling and offering you a bag of peanuts. This is the sentiment in which my post is made. Please accept it as such!
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9 Feb 2008
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good points made by all
Once again thanks for the replies, very interesting comments. I kindda see where your ALL coming from, but it leaves me a bit confused. The point Dodger makes about the boxes not falling apart on a small off is a good point. Caminando and Mr Ron also make valid points about crash energy, which has me thinking even more about the racks.
I’m thinking about overland solutions for a rack as they look nice and solid. I’m no expert on crash energy but if it’s not good for the energy to dissipate to the frame, are the solid pannier racks good or not? Should I get a set from Touratech made from simple tube that can be splinted? (Also they cost less)
There’re a lot of overland fabricators that will make racks built like a brick S**T house with extra strong stainless bolts and panniers built to withstand a war; I’m just not sure it’s a good plan now. I’d like hard kit simply because I’m doing my RTW alone and I’d like to be able to walk off and leave the bike when I look for a room and not be paranoid about my kit getting taken. The bike will be an XT600E if anybody has one who reads this, be nice to know what you have
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10 Feb 2008
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The franglais-riders
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukiceman
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As we have these boxes...
Mines were abandoned in Brazil, after my bike was stolen (And found!) as the support MoTech frame was never found. My husband still have his panniers. We´ve been on the road for 9 months now. I dropped my bike 10 times with these panniers on. Hard! The weak point was actually the frame of my BMW that started to bend. The boxes did get a bit out of shape, after so many drops, but where smashed easily into back into shape with a hammer and a piece of wood.
My husband panniers are doing fine. The mo-tech suppport frame is good but the way it fits on the BMW F650gs bang on the frame of the bike! But there is no perfect system.
They are very fast and easy to remove from the frame, good in poor countries when you get in a hotel and have to remove the panniers, surrounded by a crowd, to get your bike through the door into the lobby!
Bottom line: these boxes are cheap and do the job. At least I did not feel too bad to leave them behind when I had to as I did not pay much for them!
Cheers,
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10 Feb 2008
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Personally, if i was going to buy boxes, i would buy the Metal Mule kit. Only through observation, i noticed these boxes are extremely strong with a good riveted design. The part that impresses me the most is the mount to the rack is actually a weak point and will break in a bad off, saving your frame and hopefully the box. I actually copied the design when i built my last set. I think the older Jessee boxes have a plastic or rubber mount that acts in the same way?
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10 Feb 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukiceman
There’re a lot of overland fabricators that will make racks built like a brick S**T house with extra strong stainless bolts and panniers built to withstand a war; I’m just not sure it’s a good plan now. I’d like hard kit simply because I’m doing my RTW alone and I’d like to be able to walk off and leave the bike when I look for a room and not be paranoid about my kit getting taken. The bike will be an XT600E if anybody has one who reads this, be nice to know what you have |
Stainless Steel bolts are not extra strong! In fact they are almost equal to an SAE GR3 bolt... very weak. Don't make the mistake of using SS in the wrong aplication! That being said, they do also work well as a weak point, like a shear pin if you may. Be aware if you break off a SS bolt, it is very difficult to remove. SS is a very un-friendly metal to work with. Don't ask me how i know...
My boxes never leave the bike, never had a problem. Either i park the bike inside a hotel, or in a paid secure lot, or i sleep next to it. You shouldn't worry too much, i've never heard a story about someone getting their boxes stolen and not their bike.
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10 Feb 2008
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Large Golden Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Ron
Personally, if i was going to buy boxes, i would buy the Metal Mule kit. Only through observation, i noticed these boxes are extremely strong with a good riveted design. The part that impresses me the most is the mount to the rack is actually a weak point and will break in a bad off, saving your frame and hopefully the box. I actually copied the design when i built my last set. I think the older Jessee boxes have a plastic or rubber mount that acts in the same way?
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I believe Ted has already put them to the test ;
Touring Ted
The boy has talent !
__________________
Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."
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10 Feb 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukiceman
The bike will be an XT600E if anybody has one who reads this, be nice to know what you have |
My boxes are mounted on Touratech frames on a XT600E. The Touratech frames are very strong and well made.
This may seem like heresy to some but my initial reaction when someone I met told me how much their Overland Solutions rack cost was to burst out laughing. I'm sure they are of superb quality but I don't recall EVER hearing of someone breaking the much more reasonably priced Touratech, Metal Mule, etc. racks.
Matt
__________________
http://adventure-writing.blogspot.com
http://scotlandnepal.blogspot.com/
*Disclaimer* - I am not saying my bike is better than your bike. I am not saying my way is better than your way. I am not mocking your religion/politics/other belief system. When reading my post imagine me sitting behind a frothing pint of ale, smiling and offering you a bag of peanuts. This is the sentiment in which my post is made. Please accept it as such!
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11 Feb 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
I believe Ted has already put them to the test ;
Touring Ted
The boy has talent ! |
Agreed! That was a nice crash! Well done... glad he's okay.
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