Punctures
 

That ever present dread of all motorcyclists! I had the pleasure of meeting Patsie Quick just before she set off for this years Dakar Race and asked her the question, how does she deel with punctures. I got a slight strange look and she sai Moose of course!!!

It turns out a moose is a solid spongy tube which replaces the inner tube and is unpuncturable. So why don't we all use them? Any Enduro/Motorcrossers out there that know why these mavels of modern science would not suit a long distance rider?

------------------
Never again :-)

I asked the same question of Derek Edmondson (Dakar rider and KTM agent. His answer? - They only last a couple of thousand miles.

Still might be worth concidering especially if that is in race conditions. If you could get 5/6,000 miles without a puncture maybe they would be a good bet.

Use the search function and you will get the answer. Not for highway use.

I use that repair stuff that you squirt into the tyre to harden it then re-inflate it at an airline later.

I know it says on the can replace tyre and don't do over 50mph but that's not the case.

Had a flat in S of France and rode back to Aberdeen no problem.

Know someone who did 4,000 miles on his GSXR750 with the stuff in. Another friend did several track days without problems.

Found it: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb...ML/000084.html

Moved this thread to the correct forum - "Equipping the bike".

Grant

Tennis Balls work quite nicely so I here!
I just keep a spare tube and the hard mounted 12V air compressor under the right shroud!
Rod
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/zrod73...b4.jpg&.src=ph

Surely its just easier to learn how to replace tubes and tyres, unless its tubeless then you can plug it.

...Agreed! Three things in life are guarenteed: Death, taxes and flat tires! Practice at home before you go, use dishsoap, purchase good chembond patches and vulcanizing fluid, not cheap rubber cement. Purchase good irons, and after a few, youll be a pro! Go tubeless if you can, and ALWAYS carry spare tubes! With this knowledge you can forget about it and ride!

The bib moose does not have so much a mileage limit as a life limit they only last about 6 months so most dealers wont keep them as they will go "off" if not sold very fast. They have to be frozen!!
Other problems is the fitting and dealers often complain that they brake the tyre machines.
My suggestion is to fit tubes and learn how to remove them from the tyres and repair them. To inflate a tubeles tyre where the beads has come of the rim can be a major problem especially if you have very limited CO2 in tiny canisters.
With a tube you can inflate it using a handpump, pumping at your own leasure.
Make sure that you have at least one long lever around 300mm or 12 inches long. The second lever can be a shorty to help keep the tyre in place.

you mentioned pincture repair kits, can you recommend any worth buying?

cheers

Spare tube(s), patches for tubes, HD patches designed for inside of tires, source of air, tire changing tools, spare valve stem or two, valve stem tool.

Forget the tube(s) and tube patches if you're tubeless.

Bad idea! I learned this the hard way south of Moab last year riding through the dessert. Cut open the sidewall on a rock, no patch would hold. An old indian crawled out of nowhere and saved me! Went to the nearest town and bought a tube, lasted for over 1000 miles before i found a replacement tire. Tubes are light and don't take up much space, are cheap and will always get you out of a bind. If your a true adventurer and stray from the beaten path, ALWAYS carry tubes.
...on my last trip to Mexico, i had a problem with a wheel i had custom built, silicone sealed for tubeless. After my front TKC-80 blew the bead for it's secont time at 80mph,(this is still under investigation, BTW) i had no choice but to use a tube. I later picked up a nail and blew it for a third time! Tough luck i guess, but i never had another problem after that.
sometimes tubeless can be really tough to seal the bead with a small pump, say you don't have a strap to wrap around the tire, or just a little handheld bicycle pump. A tube will save the day! A few years ago i met a guy in Death Valley with a flat on his GS. The slice was big enough to fit my thumb through! He stuffed a couple of plugs in but it wouldn't hold air, ended up giving him a tube just to get him out of the dessert.
...carry a tube, save a life! http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/smile.gif

Its not the flat tyre & having to change it that worries me it the bike going down due to getting a flat that scares me & my wife .Its 10 months since we came off on the auto barn in Germany & MY WIFES leg is still in plaster.
Since my return home we have brought the new 300c Chrysler & it comes with sensors that warn you that you have a flat it dosnt stop you getting one but if i had of had 3 seconds more warning i could of got the bike to a stop rather than comming off at 60kmph.
If my car comes standard with it why cant my bike i note you can install them for $500 on your car what about bikes.

Something like this -
http://www.sporttouringusa.com/www/smartire.htm

Anyone used the Slime products?
Specifically: http://www.slime.com/smarttubes/index.php

and

http://www.slime.com/tiresealant/innertubesealant.php

I have had a number of flats on tubeles tired bikes and have plugged them and also used the injected slime on one occasion.
The plug type by TIP-TOP as supplied as a tool kit item on BMW works really well. I have installed them and then ridden the bike thousands of km until the tire was worn out with no ill effects, all the while keeping in mind to maintain safe speeds .The cord- type plugs that I regularly use to fix car tire flats can be used if extra care is taken . On one such cord repair on my BMW I did not properly twist it in enough and then did not trim it enough leaving a bit of a tail hanging.As a result the plug pulled out (rear wheel). At the roadside I put in one of the TIP TOP plugs and it held no problem until tire change 7000km later with the plug wearing down smoothly with the tire rubber.
The one occasion I used the slime on a bike was after another cord repair when that plug still had a slow airleak. I forget which brand , but it was from K-Mart, came in a plastic squeeze bottle with a monkey on the label.On cars I have used the aerosol can type inflater sealant, which also worked fine. Any sealant will only work if the puncture is on the road contact surface perimiter where centrifugal force can distribute it . Any hole up the sidewall , unlikely,needs to be patched or plugged

Righto I'm learning here. Big trip coming up and I'm planningon using tubeless tyres but you guys are suggesting that taking a spare tube is a good thing just in case there's a gash the size of the Khyber Pass in the wall , right??

Is it just a case of taking the tyre off, putting the tube in, putting ther tyre back on and pumping it up?

What about wheel balancing?

"Is it just a case of taking the tyre off, putting the tube in, putting ther tyre back on and pumping it up?

What about wheel balancing?"

Yes but the pumping part is quite hard so carry a proper pump and use some liquid soap to grease the tire.

Wheel balancing? Hmm, I think last time was 180 kkm ago…….. :-)

If you read the Michelin product literature on mousses it says that mousses should not be used to travel more than 20km on tarmac at a speed in excess of 80km / hr.

Despite this warning, I ran a pair with mixed dirt / highway use for over 10,000kms, including over 1,000kns in one day on tar at an average speed of 110kms / hr. The real risk is that the heat build-up caused by riding at high speeds on tar will cause the mousse to disintegrate. After about 10,000kms (and just under six months) the rear did disintegrate but the front seemed fine.

Therefore, whilst they may not be appropriate for a tar orientated RTW trip, I personally would still use them again on a predominantly dirt based trip, such as North Africa, Central Australia etc.

One important point is that you need to remove the mousse from the rim and liberaly apply grease every few thousand kms. This can be a real pain if you are riding sole with only a set of tyre levers.

I'm doing a motorcycle course at Merton college. Our teacher there gave us a trick for punctures on tubed wheels. It won't avoid punctures but it will slow down the speed at which the tube deflate.
He said that he does the following on all his bikes: remove the tube and get 3 layers of duct tape (actually it was not exactly duct tape but can't remember the name) round the wheel to seal more or less the spoke nuts.
In case of puncture, the tube will lose the air more slowly giving you 2 or 3 precious seconds to stop. I have not tried this yet!

Re: Maria’s tip

Lining the centre of the rims with electrical tape, or similar, to cover the spokes also reduces the chance of one wearing against the tube and actually causing a puncture.

Just came accros Tireballs as an alternative for moose tubes

http://www.tireballs.com

Personally, I rode through Africa using innertubes and really only got nail punctures on my rear tyre when it was pretty bold... Take a 19" sparetube which will fit both the front and rear and get the puncture 'profi' repaired in the next village as european patches usuallu dont last too long in the heat of africa...

This depends on what type of vent you have and how easy it is to remove. Tubes come with their own vent, a schreader valve, actually. The ones on my BMW are easily removeable and seal with an o-ring, but i'm not sure if this design is standard on all bike wheels. And i never balance the wheels on the travell bike as it seams i end up taking them apart so often, it never makes a diference http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/frown.gif.

How about this one?

Stuff your front tyre with tennis balls! Anyone has tried this before?

nasty one
 

That sounds pretty nasty Bigdave - was that a front or rear end puncture ?

Most of the TPMS (tyre pressure monitoring systems) are only any use at one (road) pressure for cars.
I suppose this would work for a road bike but on an overlanding bike/4x4 where we need to drop/raise tyre pressusses to suit the terrain - it wont work - though maybe something will be developed where we can remove or switch off the monitoring system for off road use. It wouldnt suprise me if BMW are working on that as we speak for the big GS's

Im running tubed MT21's on the KTM -but if I am running tubeless on a bike I would avoid using a repair plug/string on a FRONT tyre if im on asphalt at speed. Though the tip top ones mentioned by Sjoerd sound like they are pretty good....

They should IMO be used on the rear end only- if you are keeping the speed down -and even then carefully - as the tyre heats up they can work there way out - I have had a few work loose and start to leak on the Land Rovers BFG Tubeless tyres - its got four tyres - and goes slow - so it doesnt matter too much.

As Mr Ron says carry tubes and patches - and use them on front tubeless puncture repairs - Even us 4X4'ers on tubeless tyres - carry tubes for a badly damaged tread or sidewall puncture + patches,strings etc.
Cheers
Grif

Some very good info here!

I'm just wondering, since I'm kind of the lazy sort and don't really fancy doing to much pumping, can you take co2 cartridges on planes? Obviously would have to be in the hold I guess, and the pressure shouldn't really pose a technical problem, but what do the airlines say?

Anybody any experience?

NO - I tried - had a dozen confiscated from my luggage :(

Use a small compressor, they work great.

Cheers Grant,

Was afraid that would be the case. I'll see if I can get some in Santiago. If not, it's the old pump...

Ah well, such is live!

moose is not safe at high speed for a host of reasons the main being that it is not a soft foam but a hard foam, when used it becomes compressed and thats fine if you compress it equally all round the wheel, but if you make dents in it, say by dropping into a pot hole it has the effect of crumbling the foam at that point and leaving the innertube with a flat spot. This is fine off-road as you wont notice it over rough ground but on tarmac its like riding on a flat tire. Most the raid or enduro riders are now using 'tyreballs' (from SRC racing i think) as they tend to stay soft and can expand to cope if one is damaged.

http://www.tireballs.com/

The Answer
 

Hi
try Ultraseal, this product is a sealant and conditioner, proven to work in tests and tested in excess of 150mph!!!
It does work on: push bikes, mo' bikes, cars, 4x4's, trucks, HGV's etc - I have tried it and know from experience.
Will seal punctures that could/would result in 'off's', in the event of a major hole or catastrophic damage it will allow a controlled deflation of the tyre, meaning you can stop before you would come off the bike.

Any questions leave a message or email me
Regards
Chris

Bumping this because...
 

I'm wondering if anyone has (since this thread was started) had any definitive experience with tire balls?

Tirehttp://www.dirtbikestore.com/acatalog/Tire_Balls.html

I have cold sweats thinking of having to change tyres on my own thru Africa... I've been practising but is just so DAMN hard!

I think I'd rather break my toe, than change a tyre.

If anyone can just please invent UNBREAKABLE tyres, so that I can sleep better at night.

That would be nice.

I have posted this many times too......
 

as an echo to Chris..

ULTRASEAL!:thumbup1:

Tire Balls...
 

Thanks Martyn- but it doesn't really answer my question...

Ultraseal seems ok - but seems like an 'emergency' solution - a short time help, avoiding you coming off due to a puncture? You still have to stop more or less asap, and fix the tyre??


Tire balls seems like we can ride on happily for infinity(with puncture) , without seriously affecting riding.... i.e. we don't have to stop at all to fix the tyre until we are somewhere back in civilization... to simply replace the punctured ball?

I've been thinking about this and have seen the plug kits used to great success whilst on the road, the only thing that lets people down is using the C02 canisters to re-inflate the tyre - you need about three and because they're being pushed on by hand you quite often lose a lot of the air - and they go ice cold in the hand...

I'm wondering if there's a controlled way of putting these canisters air into the tyre?

m

The answer to your Prayers
 

nope
 

ultraseal lasts the life of the tyre! if you see the nail, pull it out, then RIDE! thorns, splinters, etc, stayin.. cause no harm, never had a puncture in last 15 years! and have changed tyres on bikes with MANY nails stickin through!

Ultraseal Tire Sealant

Doh!
 

:oops2:



Ok Martynbiker - my sincerest apologies!

Ofcourse, had I done a bit of research BEFORE shooting my mouth off, I wouldn't have advertised my ignorance quite so eloquently!


I guess it just sounds nicer when you say it:

ULTRASEAL

:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

I get it. I promise. And ULTRASEAL it will be for us!

We will buy some ULTRASEAL and use ULTRASEAL since it is cleary the answer to our prayers.

Thanks.


PS: If you see two girls, riding through Africa, with not a CARE IN THE WORLD, because they don't have to change tyres... you can rest assured, its because we are using ULTRASEAL.


:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

tyrepliers.com.au
 

check out tyrepliers.com.au
product works well to get tubeless tyres off rim. i have an r11gs. have used the kit a couple of times and the patching / plugging stuff they give you is very comprehensive, including a small hand pump and CO2 canisters.
later,
andy

oh yeah who cares about balancing?

method for seating a tubeless tyre on a rim without compressor
 

fairly simple.

get the tyre mounted, splash a little petrol - which most of us carry - inside the tyre, enough to wet the inside of the bead for say 2/3 of the circumference, but not enough to pool. use your head...

make a little trail of petrol up across the outside of the tyre. this will be the wick.

take a piece of rolled paper, light the end and touch it to the petrol on the outside of the tyre.

burny, burny, whoof! your tyre is seated on the rim and probably about half-inflated.

taught to me by Ariel Rodriguez, mechanic in Mendoza, Argentina. for a demo, check:

YouTube - Seating a tubeless tyre on a rim without compressor.

cheers
andy

I have been riding/driving since 1961. During that time I have twice had problems with tyre failing to seal to the rims properly. Both times were the only two times I had aluminium rims.
Now this second time with my bmw 1985 R80.. I am about ready to install a tube in the front wheel because I cannot get the front tyre airtight. Would the goo from Halfords or Ultraseal help?

My last actual puncture on a bike ( my only one) was in 1961 on a tiger cub...:)

:thumbup1:

However, right there is another video about how not to do it:

YouTube - tyre fitting gone wrong

Hi OldBMW,
I've never used this stuff, but it certainly comes highly recommended by a wide range of people. So, following martynbikers' link, here is the Ultraseal answer about use in tubes (qualified to some extent but an answer nevertheless):-

Frequently Asked Questions

Cheers,

Thanks walkabout

Ultraseal may be fine, but remember that reputable UK tyre fitter/repair shops will not touch a tube which has any kind of sealant in it. They say they cannot guarantee a correct repair with this goo present. Of course if you're doing your own repairs, then you can give it a try. Or keep replacing the tube for a new one, then add Ultraseal again. If you're on the road, you need to keep all this in mind. Repair or replace?/ To use a sealant or no sealant? I admit I'm pulled in both directions every time I read an informed discussion on this issue...I really dont know what's best....