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-   -   nuts and a few loose screws (http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/equipping-bike-whats-best-gear/nuts-and-few-loose-screws-4331)

dw 23 Feb 2000 02:38

nuts and a few loose screws
 
Firstly, I was thinking of relacing some of the nuts on the bike (mainly cylinder head)with nylock nuts. What do you think? Also, do you ever use Loctite, and if so, which nuts/bolts should have this stuff? I'm just thinking on the really rough pistes that the nuts are gonna come loose, even if I inspect and tighten each day. What do you think...

Also, I installed my new chain, and was putting on the clip-lock (DID 520). It came on pretty easily, but when I actually grasp onto the clip lock, it seems pretty loose, like .5mm on top and bottom. This can't be right! I took my vice grips and pinched it a little bit closer, but I don't feel comforatble. What do you think about that? Am i just paranoid? When I look closely at the pins, they sort of "mushroom" out at the top, and the clip sits below that, but there's still some looseness. I really would rather not have the chain come blasting off.

Regs,

Donald.



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Travel Africa Overland...
scenicplanet.com offers route planning information, GPS points, shipping contacts and a "lovely array of travelogues". Well, one right now.

Grant Johnson 23 Feb 2000 04:17

Hi,

Interesting question:

>>replacing some of the nuts on the bike (mainly cylinder head)with nylock nuts...do you ever use Loctite, and if so, which nuts/bolts should have this stuff?<<

On my bike, (R80G/S) EVERYTHING 6mm thread and over is either nylock, safety wired, or loctited.

Nuts and bolts that are safety critical e.g. axle nuts, or engine survival, e.g. drain/fill plugs are safety wired.

Everything possible is nylocked. Everything else possible - and that's not much - is loctited. Be careful which loctite you use where - if you use red on a little carb screw you'll destroy it long before you get it off.

Really little things like carb bits, jets and the like, and some of the electrical is not loctited, but I usually give these a dab of silicone goo where possible.

A few dollars for nylocks, a fair bit of work for the safety wiring and a pain in the behind every oil change, but on the other hand - NOTHING on our bike has ever come loose in 13 years travelling.

(except the oem plastic fairing screen screws that disintegrated on a corrugated road - stainless steel and nylock nuts to the rescue)

Re the master link, imho, I'd get a new link that is tight, and then I'd safety wire it. A tiny loop of wire twice around the clip will make sure it never comes off. I always did that on my cross-country racers and never had a problem.

If you pinch the link with visegrips you may be damaging/distorting it. Get several good quality spare masters that are nice and tight and test fit them to the chain before you put them in your spares kit.

Hope that helps!

------------------
Grant Johnson

Share the Dream!
at: www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

dw 23 Feb 2000 04:56

Thanks Grant,

Always good answers!
As for the nylock, will the nylon not melt from the heat of the engine? And for the drilling, are you referring to the drilling of bolts like they do in road racing on crotch rockets? A little hole through the head, and then safety wired? Does your bolt head not get crushed when removing? (Obviously a very tiny hole...)

Thanks

Don

------------------
Travel Africa Overland...
scenicplanet.com offers route planning information, GPS points, shipping contacts and a "lovely array of travelogues". Well, one right now.

Grant Johnson 23 Feb 2000 05:13

The nylock shouldn't be bothered by the heat unless you use it on the exhaust.

Re Drilling - Yup, (my road racing days are showing) little tiny holes, about 4-5x the size of a fine stainless steel wire. 1/16" hole is plenty. Best is across the points of the nut.

Drill press and clamp required!

If you can't find out any more info with a search on the web, I'll see about a photo for the website. No digital camera so may take a while though.

------------------
Grant Johnson

Share the Dream!
at: www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

Grant Johnson 24 Feb 2000 04:25

Further to this subject, a comment was made elsewhere by Charlie Smallman:

"Don't use Nylok nuts on anything hot. The nylon melts and then acts as a lubricant. Not what you had in mind, eh?
Use Loctite, but the same thing happens at a higher temp. The best bet for head bolts is the factory torque, lightly oiled.
Charlie"

Charlie, good point, agreed!

>> but, (there's always a but ;-) Exhaust, cylinder heads, yes, absolutely, carb intakes (if flange type), not a problem. In fact I've seen bikes come with nylock nuts on the carb intake flanges. And used them with no problems.

NOTE: If the factory recommends a specific torque for any nut, then you MUST NOT use nylock, because then you will be unable to torque it correctly. In this situation I safety wire it if I am concerned about it coming undone. Never worried about head nuts though ;-), never found it to be a concern, just torque them correctly and check at regular service intervals. I carry a small 3/8" torque wrench, good for about 80 lbs. I do wire motor mount bolts, as they do come a little loose on occasion and contribute to vibration.

Note that Loctite does not affect torquing figures.

Don, apologies, brain didn't click on "head nuts" in your post on the bulletin board! only excuse is it was past bedtime my time...

------------------
Grant Johnson

Share the Dream!
at: www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

yakes 27 Feb 2000 14:24

Hi.
dw, what bike do you ride? I have a F650 and I have lost plenty of screws on dirt roads. I will locktite most of it before my trip to Lesotho, Swaziland and Mozambique in June. The F650 has too much plastic. On my road bike I put on all the nuts a second nut, and lock the 2 on each other. After that no problem. I also take a lot of spare bolts and nuts.The wire lock is a very good idea. In Africa it can be a problem to look for any bolts and nuts, esspecialy fine threads.
I think the preparation is a lot of fun, enyou it!
I must stil make me a big petrol tank, you do not get big ones for a F650.

Roger 18 Aug 2000 07:39

Still gotta check tq those bolts from time to time, even with loctite on them, especially in hot countries where it dries out with time.

As for replacement nuts/bolts check out www.mr-fastner.com he will ship anywhere in the world, no problem.

Ride safe - R

Tim Wood 4 Jan 2001 14:17

The disadvantage with using nylock type fasteners on cylinder heads is that the initial resistance must be measured and then added to the final figure. With the BMW heads on a relatively low torque to start with, and you run the risk of undertorqueing the heads. I would prefer to leave those as stock and retorque as per the maintenence schedule every 15,000 Kms. I would also expect the nylon to deteriorate with heat. I am an aircraft engineer (big jets) and generally, nylocks are never used because of on going problems. Instead, fasteners are either wire locked, split pinned or the nuts are "stiff nuts" using thread distortion methods, or similar, to make them shakeproof.

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Tim ('91 R100GS-PD)

wastegate 8 Jan 2001 03:24

Several companies (AWF) do K-Nuts, same as a
nyloc but done via sprung metal and re-usable. A little bit more, but much better
and can get plated ones that wont rust onto
the exhaust studs no matter how long they
are left.



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