Is it true? - Tires!

[Chris Smith]

Is it true that you can't use tubless tires on wheels with spokes? If the answer is yes the next question has got to be why not?

Ta

Chris

[RichLees]

you can fit tubes, but tubeless tyres can be quite rough inside and quickly wear out the tube or you can seal the rims and run without tubes if you want.

[This message has been edited by RichLees (edited 02 September 2002).]

[Grant Johnson]

You can run tubeless tires WITH tubes just fine on spoked rims.

In fact that is the recommendation where the manufacturer doesn't make a tube-type tire.

Some make a Tubeless/Tube-type tire.

Manufacturers say that adding a tube to a tubeless tire lowers the speed rating by one step. In other words an H rated tire (130mph max) becomes a U rated (124mph max) when you fit a tube.

From Continental:

"For Continental motorcycle tyres :
• All TL/TT-sidewalled tyres can be used with a tube without decreasing the speed range.
• No tube fitment on radial tyres!
• The tyre manufacturer must agree to the use of an inner-tube in a tubeless tyre if the use of an inner-tube would increase the temperature of the tyre during riding.
• On tube-type rims and wheels every CONTINENTAL tubeless tyre can be used with an inner-tube: If you use an inner-tube in a tubeless tyre you have to take a higher speed index than that you would normally use. Please note that the maximum speed for tubeless tyres fitted with an inner-tube is 210 km/h (approx. 130 mph)."

For our purposes, generally no problem. I've been running a tubeless ME88 for 16 years with a tube.

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Grant Johnson

Seek, and ye shall find.
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One world, Two wheels.
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

[nick_horley]

I think Rich may have answered a rather different but complementary question, i.e. can you fit inner tubes to wheels intended for tubeless tyres.

The answer to your question is that conventional spoked wheels have lots of holes in the middle of the rims where the spokes go - so the air in a tubeless tyre would leak out. The solution is the spoked wheels introduced with the BMW 1100GS in 1994. The holes for the spokes are in the edges of the rim, beyond the tyre bead, so tubeless tyres work fine.

I was told that this idea was patented by BMW, so perhaps this sort of wheel is only available from them.

[John Ferris]

Like Nick said air will go through the holes where the spokes are. Also the area around the rim is different so that the bead on a tubeless tire will seat better.
I don't know who owns the patent but Akront makes the tubeless tire rim for BMW.
I think that the patent would run out and that they would make them available for more bikes. Some more info click below.

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/tech/wheels.shtml

[Chris Smith]

Thanks for the repies Guys. The answer is kind of obviouse really isn't it!. The next question of course is: Which is the prefered option - tires with inner tubes of tubless with tire sealant (goop)? I use tubless on a road bike with goop and it is great but what about off-road?

Much respect

Chris

[nick_horley]

It depends where you're going, how far and how many punctures you think you're going to get.

Goop seems to get the thumbs down from everyone. Not sure why - I've never tried it.

Grant's the expert, so I shall merely try to anticipate his reply! He's done years on tubed tyres but has decided to go tubeless for safety reasons - i.e. when he gets a puncture on a cliff edge he wants the tyre to deflate nice and slow...

Other arguments are:

1) regular-sized punctures are dead easy to fix if you have tubeless tyres - a 5 minute job with practice. Big splits or gashes are another matter - you may have to fit a tube as an emergency measure to get going again. A real pig of a job.

2) Tyres are harder to change with tubeless tyres because you have to break the bead, which may require special tools.

3) The best off road tyre is, according to the aficionados, the Michelin Desert. It also has the virtue of being practically puncture-proof. But it's only available in tubed form. Tubeless off-roaders have to make do with the Conti TKC 80, which is the next best thing.

4) tubeless tyres last longer 'cos they run cooler

But most people's choice is probably determined by the bike they've already got, and their budget. If your bike has spoked wheels, and it's not a recent BMW, then you've probably got tubed tyres, and going tubeless means buying new wheels. Have you not got an off-road bike yet?

P.S. Sounds like you haven't read Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook, which covers this topic very well, plus a zillion other vital things. Go to www.adventure-motorcycling.com.

[Chris Smith]

Thanks for that Nick - useful stuff.

I'm looking at getting an Africa Twin right now. I had one before and loved it.Used T66's which were great on the road but never got chance to use them off road before the bike was stolen. Next trio is at the back end of '03 two up for 4 years! Realy want to get off the beaten track so anticipate 60% on road / 40% off road.

I have got Chris's book which as you say is little short of fantastic. Problem is I procrastinate for about two years and then make the wrong disision! Maybe I'll give all my cash to you and let you buy everything for me. Thanks again.

Chris

[frnas]

Hello

Having a 86 honda xlm with both tubless and tubed type rim i was able to sett up an experiment this summer. Runing Metzler karoo tube type tires with low presure on both rims. I got to the following conclusion: Even the tube type tire seemd to attach to the tubless rim, and therefor did not slide arond the rim so easily in high traction situation as on the tube type rim. it eventualy slided around doing wheelis on tarmac almos without air pressure.

I chose for this reason the tubless rim for this year trip. I had to reset the tyre once, after a day with sections with lose sand and solid rock, for the ease i was runing on low pressure all the time.

Driving with an tlc i could easily brake the bead with the high lift jack. If i was going alone i would have to get me a bead breaker or chose the tube type rim.

One posible conserne is that the valve hole in the tubless rim is much larger, and you may get dirt in that may cause puncture.I did not have this problem.

Mvh
Frode

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[JohnZ]

I had no problem fitting a tubed tyre to my tubeless rim. However, if you ride in the rain and cold, I'd recommend you seal the area around the valve, as the tubeless valve is invariably larger than the inner tube valve, and corrosion quickly filters through the gap and TOTALLY welds the tyre to the rim! I could only cut the tyre off, no home made bead breaker could help. The idea, therefore, that the tubed tyre would be more repair friendly, did not work! Block that gap!!

[Chris Scott]

Me, I'd go for tubeless where available, even in the dz. Keeping the pressure right is important (ie, get a mini compressor or get to like pumping).
Not so sure about a remote RTW though. Depends on your route, how long they last (prob longer than tubed) and getting new ones.
Repairs in the tread are easy and take 2 mins

CS