Riding gear conundrum when flying overseas

[9w6vx]

I like to fly to foreign countries and rent a bike and typically stay in a country for 30 days which is the maximum period I am allowed to stay in the country unless I do a border run.
I fly to a city, rent a bike and complete the riding and then return the bike. Or I would then take a bus/train to another city and then rent a bike again.

Whenever I travel/tour on a bike, I practice ATGATT and that means I lug my modular helmet, textile jacket & pants, gloves, boot, rain gear (jacket & pants). It gives me peace of mind that I am protected in CE rated riding gear. But the riding gear is heavy and bulky.

My touring boot is a TCX Explorer 4 GTX.
https://www.tcxboots.com/us/en/road/...27G001008.html
I wear the boots when I board the plane and also wear them when I am taking a bus/train when going to another city. Being a high boot it tends to be uncomfortable when you are on a plane/bus/train for >6 hours.
I would love to ditch the boots and wear running shoes on a plane/train/bus! I can't put the TCX boots in my luggage as the boots are very bulky and I don't have space in my Enduristan Tornado 50L.

Should I just wear a low boot like my TCX Jupiter 4 GTX? Low boots don't offer shin protection and also allows water to enter the shoes due to it's low height even when riding.
https://www.tcxboots.com/us/en/jupit...T7115G001.html

As for the textile jacket (Clover Savana-3), I remove the back protector from the jacket and fold the jacket into a separate 40L duffel bag together with the textile pants (Clover Ventouring-2). I then put the back protector on top of the folded jacket & pants. They are just so bulky but I don't see any other options unless I opt to ride without protective jacket/pants.

I don't use the rental bike's helmet as typically the visor would be scratched and you couldn't see anything when it rains, the helmet stinks and might not fit me well. Would it be a good idea to get a open face helmet instead of bring my trusty RPHA90 modular?

Appreciate input from fellow riders as to how I can travel lighter with less bulky gear.

Thanks
:

[Homers GSA]

Hey mate

This response will literally have people throwing their toys out of the Cot, but have a read with an open mind.

ATTGATT is relevant in certain circumstances, but not all, depending on the rider.

This is just my experience based upon being both a serious crash investigator and an emergency services advanced motorcycle trainer.

If you are a competent rider who rides maturely and defensively then all the gear is not needed. Contrary to what us riders have told ourselves, the vast majority of serious motorcycle collisions are caused by the rider, and those where it was not directly their fault, had they ridden defensively they would have avoided it. Here in Australia, and the statistics that I am aware of for some other countries are quite similar, is that most deaths and serious injuries are single vehicle crashes, rider v landscape or other vehicle.

And they die regardless of ATTGATT. In fact, other than a helmet, I can’t recall a fatal motorcycle crash where ATTGATT saved them.

If you look at emergency services riders, cops and ambos, very very few have big crashes, and very few wear ATTGATT.

It’s light weight stuff generally. Like most first responders, our team spent most of our riding operationally in jodphers, slip on boots and a short sleeve shirt in summer, leather jacket in winter - because despite riding fast, we road defensively.

I had two crashes, a low side at 90ks which rolled my ankle and bruised my hip, and a low side on an XR600 on the dirt that broke the back out of my patella, the top of the fibula and all the cartilage - I was wearing full motocross ATTG, at the time - my knee was recently replaced. The cause of the catastrophic injury - zero flex through the ankle - the knee was the fuse.

So what am I saying here?

Give some thought to the reality of ATTG - do YOU really need it for the type of riding you will be doing, and the type of rider YOU are.

I ride and travel like you do- I am off to Java in two weeks for a month of riding. I wear Kevlar type jeans, hiking boots that are comfortable, merino tshirt and for Indon a light weight summer jacket.

All this stuff is wearable out and about when off the bike. It’s causes less fatigue particularly in the heat.

BUT, when I do go for a scratch on the weekend, I wear ATTG, including a helmet collar.

Anyway - just a thought. Have a great trip.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[othalan]

You are over thinking this. Buy a big cheap duffel bag for the riding gear which you use when on flights, trains, busses, etc. When riding, leave the empty duffel in the city where you rent the bike as you will always return to that city to turn in the rental. The rental company will probably keep it for you. Or a hotel/hostel. Or connect with the local motorcycle community and ask someone to hold on to it.

For the helmet, consider the option of buying a helmet when you arrive if you have a common head size / shape. Then give it away when you leave. Some rental companies will buy it from you. Some will give a discount to buy a helmet from them when renting for a month. Rental companies will typically be happy to bargain with you, especially on longer or more expensive rentals. In most countries where motorcycles are common you will find good quality affordable helmets easily.

I also agree with the above comment about ATGATT being worth a closer look depending on the type of riding you will be doing, your experience in riding, and the location. But if you want to keep with ATGATT, the above should make the transits a lot easier.

Have fun out there!

[Tim Cullis]

I had a hospital appointment yesterday and to carve through the early morning traffic I went on my motorbike in my shorts and T-shirt. The receptionist questioned my wisdom and my response was that the route through London was 20mph zones all the way and I was in no more danger than a cyclist.

So yes, I'm with @Homers GSA regarding AGATT.

When I started riding (tuned Lambretta GT225) in 1968 helmets were optional and typically worn just to keep one's hair tidy or when it was cold/rainy weather. Hence my actions in this video from 14 years ago (scroll to 1min 10 seconds). But of course I knew the road and was being ULTRA careful.



Nowadays my preference is for an 'airflow' type lightweight jacket and back protector such as this Rev'it jacket in sun-reflecting silver which I can insulate in cold weather with other clothes, and if it rains I put my waterproof walking jacket over the top.

As I do a lot of walking and exploring off the bike, my boots are the very comfortable Forma Low Adventure.

And my helmet is the wonderful Nolan N70 2X which can be used in six different configurations. My norm is to ride with the chin guard removed but keep the peak, but on a long fast 'liaison' ride I also take the peak off to reduce buffeting.



These items suit me well. After taking my advanced riding qualification about 15 years ago I found riding to the standard great increased my enjoyment and my style is generally 'bumbling along' at 65-80 kph—I ride to explore interesting places rather than for the thrills of high speed.

If on the other hand, the reader of this enjoys the thrills of fast riding then I strongly support ATGATT.

[Tomkat]

To wear or not to wear protective gear is a personal choice, I've done both but if I'm miles from a trustworthy hospital I tend towards the former. You can be as careful and skilled as you like but if somebody T-bones you it's gonna sting, and most accidents happen at 'low' speeds in town.

However I think the answer above from othalan is closest to the mark. If you're going to rent, pack all your gear in a big duffel bag and ask the hire company to store it until you return. Or buy one of those big fabric laundry bags and cling film wrap it all over, cheap enough to throw away if you need to. You're presumably taking throwover panniers or something like that for your ride, so you're already paying the airline for luggage, what's a bit more?

[9w6vx]

@Homers GSA,

Thanks for the reply mate.

Interesting take to ATTGATT.
I am actually a slow rider and am even more cautious when I ride in foreign countries since I am not familiar with the roads and the way the locals drive.
Furthermore I typically rent a little Honda XR150 dual sport.

On another note, you wrote that you will be off to Java soon. I plan to go to Sumatra either in December or early next year. Most likely early 2024 as I have yet to work out a rough itinerary of my route for Sumatra.

Cheers

[9w6vx]

@othalan,
When I fly I have 2 bags only.
A Enduristan Tornado 50L duffel bag is checked in together with my helmet in a nondescript brown box. Hand carrying a helmet on board Air Asia is a hit & miss thing. Airport security might not allow the helmet on board as carry on.
The Enduristan duffel and the helmet box comes in to about 17 to 18kg. I typically buy about 20kg on luggage.

The other 40L duffel bag is carry on and has my textile jacket & pants with the armour and my other stuff like phone charger, power bank, secondary phone for navigation, passport, etc.

I will leave my nondescript helmet box in a hotel and pick it up when I return the bike.

Your comment on buying a helmet locally sounds like a good idea for further thought. I don't have to faff with bringing my own helmet.
In fact whenever I fly overseas and bring my helmet, I have to go to the airport customs at my home city to declare the helmet and they will provide me with a little slip which is a temporary import document. If I don't have that document I will have to pay tax when entering Malaysia again as Customs will scan the bags and if they see a helmet they assume that the helmet was purchased overseas.

My next planned trip is Sumatra, Indonesia so I will gather more information on buying a cheap helmet there.

[9w6vx]

@Tim Cullis,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I might just travel with my TCX Jupiter 4 which are low boots and definitely more comfortable.

[Lonerider]

When I went over to Thailand in 2014 for a months worth of riding I took, my own helmet, off road boots and off road gear with me, as well a some civvies to wear as I had a week in Bangkok with my daughter beforehand.
Riding gear went in the hold and I carried my helmet in my hand on the aircraft.
When on my biking trip I left all my extra stuff at the place I stayed in the night before I departed.
I can understand the choice to wear gear or not when riding, I don't ride in shorts, or flip-flops, minimum for me is jeans and a shirt with helmet and gloves.
I live in Thailand now and its easy to get lazy with the gear.

Wayne

[*Touring Ted*]

The older I get and the more riding I do, the MORE I want to wear better and more protective gear. My bones aren't as strong as they were in my youth and injuries take WAY longer to heal.

When I started Overlanding in my 20's, I took many risks. And test riding bikes at work I took silly risks too. But I mostly got away with it.

As you spend more time riding and meet more people on your life journey, you gain experience. You hurt yourself. Or you meet people who have been hurt. Those who have had their lives ruined or changed by preventative injuries. And that changes you.

Until you've been sliding down the road sideways, had your lower leg trapped under a bike or had a taxi T-bone you on a sandy road, you need to pipe down about "You don't need safety gear"

It's like the smokers who try to convince you to light up because their Granny lived to 100 and she smoked 50 a day.
I don't want to spend weeks or months held up in a shit hole town or having to fly home with a cast on my leg.

If you're travelling in countries where medical facilities are basic (especially emergecy services) , why the hell would you take these unneccessary risks ?

I don't want my ankle immobilised for life because I'm wearing walking boots instead of my Tech 7s. Nor do I want to be disabled because I didn't pack a back protector because I didn't want to carry a bigger bag.

It's true... Lots of people don't fully gear up and most generally survive the experience. But quite a lot don't. So yes, the risk is personal.
Is it worth the short term ease of travel vs the risk of life-long life-changing injuries that you could have prevented ???

For me... No ! Not now I'm older and wise. And had my fair share of crashes and accidents.

The fundermental basics have to be:

Excellent helmet
Armour for back, shoulders, elbows, knees
Gloves
Adventure/MX boots


For me, you're either riding or you're lightweight back packing. You need to chose which one. They don't mix well together unless you're able to rent gear (which is generally crap as you say).

My entire riding gear fits into a large hold all. It weighs 15kg. Then I have a cabin-size bag for my clothes and personal items. Which is easily enough for a month of backpacking.

[mark manley]

I am more some of the gear all of the time person, at least a lightweight bike jacket with some armour, gloves, knee pads, helmet and hiking boots so if I did not have a checked bag it could all go with me in the cabin when I fly.

[AnTyx]

I will use the rental company's helmet - because that's the one thing I know they will definitely provide. For everything else, it's a crapshoot. I am in the habit of always using buffs/tube scarves as helmet socks anyway, so that mitigates hygiene issues.

On longer-term rentals, like one or two week rentals in NZ, I picked a company that specifically advertised that they would rent me a full textile suit and boots. I brought my own gloves because they didn't really take up much space in my luggage.

I have really nice riding jeans (in my case Revit Philly) with aramid weave in the denim in addition to reinforcement panels, and Seesmart armor pads (very thin) - they work as slightly bulky regular jeans, I can easily wear them off the bike, so they are very reasonable to bring.

I've definitely brought a summer riding jacket on a trip before, on the principle that the jacket had served me for years by that point and was cheap to begin with, so if it was too bulky to lug all the way through my trip, I would not care too much to just leave it there. Turns out that you can fold mesh textile pretty small, especially if you take out the back protector!

Boots are the thing that I feel worst about compromising on - at home I always ride in tall boots, and on shorter trips I have brought them with me (you can find ones that can be worn off-bike easily, like my Dainese Fulcrums), but a lot of the time I will use hiking boots instead. It's not a great situation, but it is SOME ankle protection at least. I've done this more in low-speed environments, renting scooters or little 150cc bikes in Asia.

[AnTyx]

Originally Posted by 9w6vx

I wear the boots when I board the plane and also wear them when I am taking a bus/train when going to another city. Being a high boot it tends to be uncomfortable when you are on a plane/bus/train for >6 hours.
I would love to ditch the boots and wear running shoes on a plane/train/bus!

If you have clean socks, there's no reason not to just take off your boots when you are in your seat. I do this on long flights even when I am wearing comfy slip-ons! Boots will fit under the seat in front of you.

Would it be a good idea to get a open face helmet instead of bring my trusty RPHA90 modular?

I heartily recommend the Scorpion Exo-Tech - it works as both a fullface/modular, and as a jet if you fold the chinbar to the back. LS2 makes one like that, and the Shark Evoline is the original in this category, but in my experience the Exo-Tech has a smaller overall shell (I wear an XL) and the extra-large jet-sized visor is also good for riding with the chinbar closed. Anyway, if your holiday is entirely bike-based, then yes, bringing your own helmet is worthwhile.

Appreciate input from fellow riders as to how I can travel lighter with less bulky gear.

If you really travel like you describe - flying into a place, renting a bike, riding around, returning it and flying out - then I think minimizing your in-flight luggage is actually not where the value is. I'd invest in a good gear bag (I like the Ogio Rig 9800) where you can pack your helmet, boots, suit, etc. - and a folded drybag/duffel - and just store the gear bag at the rental place. No reason at all why you should travel on the bike with the same luggage that you travel with on the plane! I've even left a large wheeled suitcase in a truck cargo terminal while I was riding my bike for two weeks, and it wasn't a problem.

[markharf]

I'm just here to opine that we are ALWAYS making compromises--ALL of us. None of us opt for perfect, 100% certain safety, or we'd stay at home surrounded by pillows and memory foam.

That being the case, the only question is where to draw the line. Where Ted draws his line isn't where I draw mine, and mine may not correspond to yours. Mostly we all survive.

I attribute my own survival--no accidents ever on a bike--more to innate caution and learning to ride late in life--a deliberate choice, since a couple of days on enduros in the woods convinced me I was sure I'd die if I started in my twenties. My accident-free streak might end tomorrow....but I doubt it. If it does, it'll be interesting to learn whether I'll be bemoaning the hiking boots I wear around town in preference to my MX boots, or crowing about the armor I STILL insist on wearing even for quick trips to the grocery store.

My idea would be to try to come up with a reasonable compromise which I can live--or die--with. For me, that's meant flying with hiking boots, knee and shin armor, regular pants, a light riding jacket and gloves, and a pretty good helmet. I skip the neck brace, full MX boots, ballistic pants, and more like that. But on the trip I have coming up I'm forgoing riding gear altogether, and will be back to buses, trains, shared taxis, oxcarts, and lumbering around on foot. That's part of my personal compromise, too.

Mark (evading homicidal truckers, bus drivers, taxis and livestock on 5 continents for a few decades now)

[AnTyx]

Originally Posted by Homers GSA

If you are a competent rider who rides maturely and defensively then all the gear is not needed. Contrary to what us riders have told ourselves, the vast majority of serious motorcycle collisions are caused by the rider, and those where it was not directly their fault, had they ridden defensively they would have avoided it.

How do you feel about seatbelts?

And they die regardless of ATTGATT. In fact, other than a helmet, I can’t recall a fatal motorcycle crash where ATTGATT saved them.

Leaving aside the confirmation bias (you only remember the deadly ones - you would not have been called to investigate the ones that resulted in a property damage claim!), ATGATT is not for deadly crashes - it is for the middle ground between a bad scrape and mincemeat. ATGATT is to ensure that in a crash, you either die, or limp away - instead of surviving with life-altering injuries.

If you look at emergency services riders, cops and ambos, very very few have big crashes, and very few wear ATTGATT.

In Australia or Texas, sure - it's very hot and the cops are macho. Someone who is both a trained emergency rider, and spends their entire working days every day on a motorcycle, will make an informed decision that the continuous risk of overheating is a bigger threat. But regular riders don't ride like cops, and don't have the permanent scan-for-threats mindset of cops - and here in Europe, our moto cops are absolutely ATGATT.

I had two crashes, a low side at 90ks which rolled my ankle and bruised my hip, and a low side on an XR600 on the dirt that broke the back out of my patella

So you've been lucky. I've had a few crashes that were caused by my own inattention (and habitual riders WILL be inattentive at least some of the time, especially on holiday when they are enjoying the ride and scenery, to say "if you'd ridden defensively it would not have happened to you" is victim-blaming and unhelpful). In those cases, ATGATT meant that I walked away with some bruises and sore muscles - the damage to my ankles is actually from falling off bicycles, in normal street shoes, not from dropping a heavy motorcycle on my boot!

But the reason that one of my forearms and both of my wrists are held together with titanium is that while I was riding on a straight, empty, countryside road at the posted limit of 90kph, on a dry sunny day with perfect visibility, a dude in an SUV decided to blow through a stop-sign and send me on a helicopter ride to the nearest major trauma center. Your defensive riding will not prevent other people's unbridled idiocy, and if it hasn't happened to you (ever or yet), that's a matter of luck.