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Helmets - An alternative to the Pricey Ones
I'm a firm believer that many of the cheaper makes of helmet on the market today are just as good as some of the more expensive helmets. I'm looking for a genuine alternative to the BIG 2 (both start with the letter S). I keep hearing good things about the NITRO make of helmets, is anyone able to impart some first hand experience in this respect? I don't want to spend any more than about £100 ($240) on a plain colour helmet and it MUST be a type A giving maximum protection. The big 2 must obviously pass on their marketing costs to the customer which must increase costs massively. Years ago the BIG 2 were AGV and Bell but they seem to have gone out of fashion for some reason (in the UK at least). Finally, where is the best place to get one from?
I read yesterday that the UK government is passing new legislation which will result in helmets going through a much more rigorous testing process. Rather than just advising the customer that the helmet meets a required minimum standard the helmet manufacturer will have to give detailed data about the type of tests and the result of these tests in fine detail. This will enable customers like me to make an informed judgment when looking for reasonably priced alternatives. I imagine that the BIG 2 might be worried by this development because their share of the industry might come under threat from helmets manufactured to the same standards but much less expensive. |
I advise that you try to do some 80mph crashes on the freeway with cheap helmets and see how it goes...
The thing is that as far as I know there is no central database with helmet safety statistis. I have a 300 quid (600$) Shoei helmet cause I feel that my head is worth at least that amount. If you dont feel the same way, I wish you luck... Until someone make a EURO NCAP for helmets I buy the best I can get my hands on. Sorry if that doenst answer you question, but I wanted to give my opinion since I spent alot of time thinking about the same before buying my first helmet (which I still have and use, so the investment has been quite low looking over a period of time) Also when you buy a good helmet, you get better aerodynamics which for me first of all means less noise. Secondly it is lighter and more plesant to wear all day. Thirdly the windshield doesnt wobble/make noise when driving with it open, even at 150Kph (yes I tried) Fourthly you can take the padding out and wash it. |
I wouldn't wear anything but an Arai anymore.... but i did really rate the Airoh Firefox.
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That is one of the points I raised above - the UK government are due to implement a brand new system of helmet testing which will enable users to make a better informed judgement. At the present time the helmets are certified to meet a minimum standard after undergoing crash/dropping/penetration tests. The data from these tests is NOT made public at all. The new system will ensure this data is available to all and sundry which is a massive leap forward for bikers health & safety.
I wish I could agree with you about buying the most expensive headgear. I don't because I genuinely believe that some of the "designer" manufacturers inflate their prices to allow them to undertake expensive marketing programs. The Big 2 (S+A) have only really come to prominence in the UK in the last 20 years before that I think I'm right in saying that the big 2 were Bell and AGV. What is very clear is that there must be many Executives of helmet manufacturers who are waiting with baited breath what exactly these new tests will prove to their customers. Time will tell but I will not be at all surprised if a few of the BIG boys find their portion of the market under threat from cheaper manufacturers who sell their helmets at a much reduced profit level. There are plenty of tests in M/C magazines that rate cheaper lids highly. "The Rider" magazine last month had a £78 ($140) NITRO N800V helmet in it's top 10 and it beat some helmets costing 5 times as much! That's a FACT. I value my own life very highly and I can assure you that if I honestly thought I could obtain premium protection by spending more money I would gladly do so. Surely it is better to try and obtain the same level of protection for minimum cost? You insinuate that I'm somehow defective just because I refuse to spend maximum money on a skid lid! I refuse to be one of the "sheep" led to believe that the most expensive is always the best. Time will tell but don't be surprised if you all find out you have been spending big bucks to pay for flashy marketing drives... I understand it is not always just about protection either - comfort, noise and looks do come into it as well. Is anyone going to agree with me or do you all possess these expensive helmets and do not feel inclined to admit you have been DONE good and proper? NO MORE ONE LINERS PLEASE... |
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Well I would not disagree with you kentfallen (excuse the double negative!). I have read many of the reports about helmets over the years that have been in the printed press; apart from your latest information about new testing standards, another factor that I recall is that most, if not all, helmets in the world are manufactured in either Italy or Japan - not significant in itself, but this leads to the deduction that many of the factories are producing the premium priced products right alongside the cheaper ones, using similar shells & other materials. It is little wonder that some brands of cheap helmets perform as well as the "quality" premium versions. The opposite is also true IMO, because of "badge branding" (Try on a Ducati branded helmet for instance). Having said that, I use an Arai because it fits my head better than some others! |
Dave, I agree totally with what you say... Well that's 2-2 so far...
(better make sure my reply runs to more than 1 line!). I currently wear a NITRO helmet (£80) |
Neil
I can appreciate your position, as I was thinking along the same lines. The craic is that if the lid bears the appropriate kitemark (depending on the country you buy it - eg the US is snell or summat), then it should offer the same minimum protection. The fact that we're not really informed as to what testing consists of and the detailed results (excuse my ignorance if it's out there but I couldn't find it) means that it's really up to personal preference, and the marketing hype encourages that "well, £80 isn't much for a lid, so £200 should be better" feeling. I bought a new shoei xf-1000 in the US for my trip down to south america, single colour coming in at USD $380, at that time around £190. It's really light, detachable washable padding, quiet at speed & fits great. Our lass bought one of those new BMW opening lids off ebay for £190 & she loves it, but it's not as light as the shoei. Some shops sell via ebay & you can often go direct. Buena suerte Scouse |
I'm going to jump in here and say that price should be a secondary consideration .
Fit and build quality should be the most important factors . When I look at a helmet [ I'm searching for a flip front that fits me , haven't found a replacement for my old Nolan yet ] fit is the most important factor .If it doesn't fit ,then it goes back on the shelf . Then I look at the way the thing is put together , quality of chinstrap ,lining , visor , visor replacement , ventilation , ease of cleaning etc etc . I don't really care about the brand name ,but I will research the internet and see what other riders think of theirs and any problems they might have had . All helmets sold in most developed countries will have to meet one standard or another , I don't have the info on hand to compare one standard to another so I tend not to worry too much about that , but if it's passed for racing then that's a good clue it' s a good helmet . Most testing is done with new helmets and not sweat soaked helmets that have seen a lot of service and I think that this is where the build quality is very important , helmets made of better materials will last longer . Given two helmets that meet all the criteria , I would choose the cheaper of the two . I think that helmets like Shoei and Arai ,for instance ,are more expensive because they do more research but their baseline models are not all that expensive . I haven't seen a Nitro helmet and therefore can't comment but I wouldn't dismiss it on price alone . Some of the cheaper flip fronts are pretty awful with regard to build quality. I'm always sceptical when governments get involved in testing safety gear ,because I believe independant testing agencies can do the work impartially and more efficiently . I don't think that the bigger companies will have much to fear and will soon adapt , if the need arises . The more info that is available to the public - the better . I have found that in the long run [ with many different types of gear ] ,quality counts - but not at any price . |
Cheap ones can be good. Ive had all sorts of helmets but my current one cost me £37 for a full face helmet cant remeber the make but its identical to more expensive lids has all the right markings. Ive had this for 2 years now no worries it does everything I need and if I drop it loose it whatever it really doesnt matter because it was so cheap.
I can fully understand someone wanting a top of the range helmet but as long as my bonce is protected Im easy. I think you are more likely to replace a cheaper helmet than a £300 one, if its damaged, which could make a big difference in a Fall. |
Dodger his pretty much hit the nail on the head (no pun intended) as regards to what to look for in a helmet.
To all you "why pay more?" brigade - I suggest going to a shop that has a wide range of brands on offer (including Shoei and Arai) and just compare the build quality - of the shell, the paint, the lining, the fittings, the optical clarity of the visor etc etc - and you'll see why an Arai costs as much as it does, it is simply better made than the budget brands. Whether you decide to spend a little more to have that level of quality is up to you, but don't forget there are plenty of deals to be had on the premium brands if you shop around - I paid £240 for an Arai Tour-X in plain white (rrp £299), and £260 for a white Astro-R (rrp £329) - and that was over the counter, not mail-order internet shopping. At that sort of price, there really is no reason to compromise. But ultimately, as has been said above - it's what fits you properly and feels 'right' - you've got to try them for yourself... JennyMo xxx |
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Shoei's are equally as good, but the head shape isn't right for me, as if it doesn't fit right its not worth wearing... I do think its worth looking at the PLAIN base colours of the helmet you are looking for, because that tells you how much the paint job is worth (its very expensive on arai's and shoeis) and a paint job is irrelavant to safety... I used to sell the Nitro Helmet range, and I think they are actually a really good mid range helmet, very good indeed. The bottom line is that if the really expensive ones don't fit you properly, and the only one that does costs £40 then the £40 helmet is better and safer for YOU regardless of how great the protection of the £300 one is. Airoh helmets are very good, a similar head shape to Arai's, but a lot cheaper if you are looking for a decent mid range lid. |
This thread has turned into quite an interesting debate. It's clear from all your comments that the majority feel it is better to buy a cheaper alternative if it provides the same level of protection as the expensive designer makes.
I am very happy with my £78 Nitro helmet. I'm surprised no one has mentioned the likes of AGV or Bell both of which were Number 1 and 2 in the UK in the 1970's and 1980's. |
Sales assistant: If sir has a cheap head, we can sell you a cheap helmet!!!!
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I always buy a plain helmet because I prefer them; the plainer the better as far as I am concerned - I don't want to pay extra for loads of paint or look like a walking advert for some track racer or other, especially when the latter will be wearing some other brand and paint design just about every year. I gave my "double negative" version of opinion in my last post because I agree with the general theme that is running here - basically it has to fit me and be comfortable, etc etc before price comes into the equation. Arai also have a fitting/checking service (last seen doing the rounds of Hein Gericke shops before Christmas) and shop sales assistants are supposed to change the internal cheek pads to get a "perfect" fit at the time of buying, although they can be very un-informed about this, and that is being charitable to some sales assistants! Yes, there are a wider range of basic shell sizes with the more expensive helmets - the "cheaper" ones (which includes Roof I believe) use a small range of shells and make up the various head sizes from XXS to XXL (or whatever) by varying the amount of padding inside. Other helmets: I did have an AGV some years ago, until the forehead padding wore out, fell to bits and the shell was pressing directly onto my skull - that got to be painful in the wind blast. I bought a Lazer helmet a few years ago; it had a range of stickers on the back and I commented to the shop owner about the lack of an ACU gold sticker - he explained that the EU stickers had superceded all of that, but since I was "concerned" he got a gold one out of his desk and stuck it on immediately; he had a drawer full of stickers for attachment to any helmet that he felt like putting them on. I sold that helmet after a while because I did not like its' weight - it had a built-in pulldown sunshield and it was a flip-up, which always adds to the weight. I wish I had kept the report of helmets from some years ago; it identified who owned which factories and who was making what - I would not be surprised for instance if the Arai factory also make Airoh. |
I'm sorry but that theory doesn't hold true. MY head is worth a lot more to me than £300 . So, by your theory I should buy a more expensive helmet than you? Helmets don't cost as much as your head is worth. A helmet should be bought on the fact that it has the proper safety marks and that it fits you properly and is comfortable in use. If an expensive helmet isn't comfortable in use you will hate it after a while it will also distract you while riding. If it doesn't fit properly then no matter how expensive it is it won't be protecting you. Buy what is best for your use and not what is most expensive. Mind you, buy what you like it is after all our own choices in life. :)
Jim [QUOTE=peter-denmark;168625]I advise that you try to do some 80mph crashes on the freeway with cheap helmets and see how it goes... The thing is that as far as I know there is no central database with helmet safety statistis. I have a 300 quid (600$) Shoei helmet cause I feel that my head is worth at least that amount. If you dont feel the same way, I wish you luck... |
I agree that fit is important, but I will still gladly pay some more for a "brand" helmet than a "non brand" one.
I hope that someone will make an independent testing group one day, then I wont mind buying cheaper. Buying cheap because of a good fit seems wrong to me, unless the manufacturer has some quality history behind the product. But it is damn difficult to determine. I am just of the opinion that if I buy a cheap helmet and it kills me beause it is too cheap I am an ass. I cant speak for anyone else, but I wont take that risk... |
That's the point of this thread, there is soon going to be a UK independent organisation which carries out these kinds of tests and the results data will be available for everyone to see. This new organisation will have the status of a quasi-government "quango" and will operate hand-in-hand with the existing British Standard Testing Authorities. It's damn good news for all of us because helmet manufacturers will no longer be able to keep us all in the dark the way they all do now. It will be most interesting to see how the smaller cheaper manufacturers fare... Will I be proven correct in my own assumptions? I wonder...
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That testing body is the only was you can take the guess work out of things.
Coming from an outdoor retail background i can assure you lots of fudgy things go on in the background when it comes to branding and costs. i can name several instances where "mid-range" products are re-labeled, re-styled or simply sold in another market/country under a different "top-end" brand. (now i didn't mention "low range"!) Often the styling, finish of the product that will make the difference between "mid-range" and "top-end". Also it comes down to "market value" -what you or I are "willing" to pay for things. Sometimes vanity will play apart - brand envy. "shiney kit syndrome". But also in the case of safety i.e. helmets "i want the best money can buy" sound idea. But there must be a point in that price range that the safety of the helmet doesn't really increase, and we are only paying for marketing..... When i was a teenager i came off my mountain bike flying down a hill at 45 km/h, went over the handlebars and landed on my face full impact. ( mum always said "use your head for once!") 65 stitches and a grade 31/2 out of 5 head injury (as bad as it gets without perment brain damage). Right in line with my temple is was a large chunk missing out of the helmet (Bell top $$$) For sure i'd be dead with "A" helmet but did the fact that it was top end helmet have anything to do with??? I don't have a crystal ball so I'll never know............ I saw a Airoh S4 in the shop the other day, Seems not a bad deal in the Arai tour-X type of helmet. I immediately tryed on the Shoei version and would be happy with ether fit for my dome. I saw a praising review of this helmet here; Airoh Helmets - webBikeWorld Seamed to think it was very good, with very low noise, less than a tour-X. Also light weight. I saw this in NL for 190 euros. removable visor and peak washable liner etc. Also Uvex Enduro. same design etc. and IMHO a nice looking helmet too! I've seen it advertised on the net for 169 - 199 euro range. And Uvex being a saftey equipment company!!!!??? how bad can it be? I noticed this helmet didn't show on the english uvex web site but it did on the german site. To quote stuxtttr; "my current one cost me £37" :eek3::eek3::eek3: That's being a bit keen for me!!! But maybe this new independent organisation may see us all buying this one if it gets good results! it could be the bargin of the century or a death trap......... But it comes down to... it's your head going into that helmet...... |
This debate is one that comes up quite frequently on various forums - are the premium branded helmets from Arai, Shoei, etc really worth 3-4 times the asking price of other brands??
The problem with relying on the various helmet tests out there is that the people drawing up the test requirements all have different ideas about what makes a good helmet. The proposed UK star rating isn't really any different in this respect. The designers know exactly how to make a helmet pass a particular test and tailor their designs accordingly - we'll no doubt see local manufacturers tailoring their design so that they perform well to gain a higher star rating. Whether this will make a better helmet than one designed to meet another country's standard is debateable. If you're buying from any known brand then you'll be getting a decent helmet that will do a good job of protecting your head. What the tests won't tell you is how comfortable the helmet is, how noisy it is, will the visor seal properly, etc What you pay for with the likes of Arai is the quality of finish and backup - different liners to tailor the fit, quality visors, readily available spares and so on. I've got 4 helmets in my wardrobe - 3 Arais and a Bell MX lid. I've worn my Arai road helmets for 12 hours a day without discomfort, and the oldest one still fits like a new helmet after 10's of thousands of miles use. Expensive, but worth every penny if you're doing long days in the saddle. As far as £37 helmets go - you've got to be kidding - how much do you think was spent on research and design if they're selling them at that sort of price. £80-100 is a more realistic startingprice if you want something you can trust. |
Helmets.....
I bought a ROOF Boxer.......Pile of :9898:..... worst lid ever. period!
I have 2 lids now. an open face White Lid made By TONG HO HSING INDUSTRIAL CO. LTD ( Taiwan) bought in 2000, worn daily, dropped, thrown about, its my off road lid really, has twin 'D' ring fastening, have used it for probably over 50,000 miles...... cost 39 quid. Lid 2 is an Italian JEBS, Black in Colour, Full face, 1350 grams, is very comfy, fairly quiet, has a proper seatbelt type buckle and fits properly.I wear it whenever I am going to be using main roads a lot... but I prefer an open face lid. Cost 75 Euros Martyn |
Martyn,
I too have been considering an open-faced helmet for offroad work. Having seen all those lovely photos of your travels in Spain and the lack of any human activity whatsoever, I can quite understand why you choose to use an open faced helmet. Unfortunately back here in the UK the roads are constantly clogged with traffic (and moronic car drivers driving too fast). So I wouldn't have the confidence to use an open faced helmet on the roads here. Neil |
Open face lids ......one major drawback!
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I mentioned Roof in my last post to see if there is any opinion out there: vastly over-rated methinks? They certainly do not fit my head shape and the visor is right up against your face when it is closed. This may be a case of styling (that "right over the back" flipup) getting higher priority than comfort etc. |
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Come on you guys and girls working in the trade; you can spill the beans here and tell the truth!! Let's have some more information about branding, following of fashion, tricks of the trade and the like. |
Update - from Rider Magazine Feb 2008
IMPORTANT DEVELOPMENT - ALL BIKERS NEED TO SEE THIS!
1. The UK Department of Transport will be responsible for these new IMPACT TESTS. The Organisation will be known as SHARP 2. Every helmet on the UK market will be tested for IMPACT. 3. Helmets will be rewarded up to 5 stars. 4. Helmets will display these stars to show the test result for that helmet. 5. All scores will be published on a website - SHARP - The Helmet Safety Scheme GOOD NEWS FOR ALL OF US........ Including bikers outside UK who can check the website for their make of helmet. Heres what it will look like - Tests : Results : SHARP - The Helmet Safety Scheme Pass on this website link..... Why SHARP? Motorcyclists are our most vulnerable groups of road users - making up just 1% of traffic in the UK but accounting for 18% of all deaths; the Government has already committed £1.5M in 2007 to educating motorcyclists and other road users about better behaviour that could reduce casualties. There were 599 motorcyclist fatalities in 2006 and our research shows that approximately 80% of motorcyclists killed and 70% of those with serious injuries sustain head injuries. Scientific analysis has shown that we could save up to 50 motorcyclists' lives a year if all riders wore helmets scoring highly in our proposed rating. Laboratory tests have shown that there are real differences in the safety performance of motorcycle helmets available in the market. While they all satisfy the minimum legal requirements, we believe that by providing objective advice concerning the level of protection a safety helmet provides will assist riders when making this very important purchase decision. We have seen that differences in safety performance do not necessarily follow price trends. We'll test the most popular helmets first and aim to publish the first ratings as early as Spring 2008. It will take time to build a complete database, but in the future we hope that there would be a rating for every helmet available. There is no comparative rating system available for motorcycle helmets anywhere in the world! SHARP is the Safety Helmet and Assessment Rating Programme - it's the new helmet safety scheme for motorcyclists. SHARP will enable riders to more easily select a helmet which matches their needs. It will provide consumers with an independent assessment of the safety performance of helmets sold in the UK. The SHARP RATING reflects the performance of each helmet model following a series of advanced tests in our lab and will rate helmets from 1-5 stars. Laboratory tests show there are real differences in the safety performance of motorcycle helmets available in the market. While they all satisfy the minimum legal requirements, providing objective advice concerning the level of protection a safety helmet provides will assist riders when making this very important buying decision. We have begun testing motorcycle helmets to our advanced assessments and from Spring 2008, SHARP will offer you a single, easy to understand rating for helmet models available within the UK. We believe that a helmet that performs well when assessed against our new procedures will offer users a significantly increased level of protection. Our research has shown that up to 50 motorcyclists' lives could be saved every year if everyone wore a helmet that scores highly in the SHARP testing system. Look for the SHARP logo and be sure to check out the SHARP rating when you think about getting your next helmet! Our Tests - What's Different? We have brought together some of the best aspects from the standards currently in use around the world and defined more rigorous tests and assessments than are currently in use for Regulation. We'll be testing protection across a much wider range of speeds. We have not just looked at impact energy management, but also considered the areas of the helmet most likely to be struck and the risk of brain injury from that impact. In-depth real world accident studies have allowed us to link specific laboratory impacts with real world injury so that our tests address specific risk of head injury. We will impact helmets against anvils to represent both flat surfaces and kerbstones, testing protection over the whole helmet not just specific points. We have developed a suite of enhanced test procedures and assessment criteria for helmets, so that a helmet performing well when assessed against it would offer real and significant increases in head protection. Our tests are: Linear impact tests - Energy absorption tests The helmet is placed onto a test head form and dropped from a certain height onto different types of anvils. Acceleration is measured at the centre of gravity of the head form. We measure the energy absorbed by the helmet at various locations and speeds. Oblique impact tests - Rotational acceleration by friction The helmet is placed onto a test head form and dropped from a certain height against an inclined anvil with a very rough surface. Rotational acceleration is measured in the test head form. Limit values allow us to assess the risk of brain and neck injury. The results from 22 different impacts will be combined into a single easy to understand star rating and published to provide consumers with comparative information to assist them in making informed purchase decisions. |
nice one
Cheers Neil! a true scholar and a gentleman!
I'm living in NL these days and it's hard to get ones hands on english language Mag's etc. I'm amazed it's been this long for this sort of thing to be done!! The likes of the FIA must do something similar for motorsport? Thanks once again! |
Always nice to help our Dutch friends across the water.... funny isn't it, the English and Dutch have nearly always got on well together. Probably something to do with the fact I've never come across a Dutchman who doesn't speak good English! Or perhaps our comradeship during WW2? By the way, you're troops are doing a fine job in Afganistan alongside our brave lads...
This news is so important for US ALL that I have taken the liberty of opening up another separate thread on the Hubb... |
I agree with you completely Neil! So does my Dutch girlfriend! I on the other hand am a Kiwi!:thumbup1:
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By the way Neil... have you served? (going by your site)
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No I'm ex M/C Plod (Policeman)!
I have an interest in civic war memorials in general. I transcribe the things and when I come across a man who is not recorded on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission Debt of Honour, I try and make a case to have his name added belatedly. So far I have had 11 men (i have just submitted another 12) who now have their names recorded as war casualties and all have now got war graves which is nice because before they had no headstone or grave marker. It's not easy work but it's worthwhile in my opinion. These men gave their lives for OUR freedom and it's right that their sacrifice is NEVER forgotten. It's always the English speaking countries of the world (UK,USA,Canada,Australia,NZ, etc..) who seem to get left with the job of fighting tyranny and terrorism. Don't want to get too political on this "bike" forum but in Afganistan all the fighting (in the South) is being left to troops from UK,USA,Denmark,Holland,Canada. The rest of NATO stands idly by while our men give their lives (the few German troops away from the hot spots in the North even refuse to go out in the dark let alone fight which is surprising given the reputation of their army and history)... Oh well, you did ask! All the very best to you and your girlfriend. Neil |
now worries mate i agree with everything you've said!
No bother at all! I spent several years in the NZ Army TA. Quite a few of my friends back in NZ are in blue. I'm keen to head down that path myself, though now that i find myself in NL. I have the not so small task of having to learn Dutch to a complete fluency level to do that here!:eek3:
If you're ever coming through Nl and want a brew or a place to crash give me a yell! |
no worries mate i agree with everything you've said!
No bother at all! I spent several years in the NZ Army TA. Quite a few of my friends back in NZ are in blue. I'm keen to head down that path myself, though now that i find myself in NL. I have the not so small task of having to learn Dutch to a complete fluency level to do that here!:eek3:
If you're ever coming through NL and want a brew or a place to crash give me a yell! |
please keep your political views out especially when you dont have any proof of them...
Make a seperate thread if you want to discuss it and I will happily give you my opinions. |
off topic only
Peter,
I don't see any politics in those last few posts - just straight forward statements based on very wide reporting across the whole world. However, it has gone way off the thread and this happens a lot in the HUBB - not the first time at all! :offtopic::offtopic: but "acceptable". |
Fair call Walkabout. Perhaps PM would have been more appropiate
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Peterdenmark,
I don't understand what you have a problem with? I did mention the soldiers from Denmark who are doing their bit! Everything I said it was all completely factual and has been widely reported around the world. Oh well I'm thankful of Dannish support there even if you aren't... which incidently I find surprising given the fact you live there! To date 9 brave Dannish soldiers have given their lives so that YOU and I can live in peace and post on ere... I'm NOT a bleeding heart liberal"... Iraq Coalition Casualties Iraq Afganistan Memorial |
meanwhile, back at the topic.
I bought a nitro helmet, because it was the best fitting helmet in my local bikeshop for my wee head. I dithered about it for a few days cos it was only £50, then read a Ride magazine review of it. Since then, I've bought 5 or 6 of them, and I replace them every 6 months or so. Always had it drummed into my head that dropping a helmet or banging it could affect the structure, and I am always knocking it into something or other when walking about. If it was a £300 helmet, I'd probably hang on to it longer, possibly then using a less safe helmet overall. I ride about 15000 miles a year on my FJ1200 and my xt600 ratbike, I do a lot of motorway riding, and ride whatever the weather, and the nitro helmets do me fine, other than visor misting, and thats easy fixed with some bob heath spray stuff |
I concur with you regarding NITRO helmets. They appear very well made and are priced reasonably too (between £40-£150). The Rider Mag last month (December 2007) placed the Nitro N 800V in the top 10 above some costing 5 times more. It will be interesting to see how they fare in the forthcoming UK tests, I suspect they will beat many other expensive makes... Had a look at some KBC's today and they look good for the price too - £50 for a mid-range lid.
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Got any pics Stew? :offtopic: so probably best on the Yam tech forum!! |
not sure if this is much use to you but my riding instructor when on the discussion of helmets said when he was racing most the guys used nitro, as they binned them so often from impacts and that only the guys which huge sponsers could wear the very expensive ones. And pretty much when it came down to it they provided the same protection.
He pretty much said what was posted here buy one that is the best fit and is comfy as long as it has eu marks then it should be of a good enough standard. |
A question though.... what goes into the EU standard? How good is that standard? Is the testing procedure available for public reading? How does it compare to US or NZ/AUS standards e.g. when i was working on mine sites in Aussie; work boots must have the NZ/AUS safety marks because other international marks fall short of the standards put forward in the local system (this is what the saftey training officer lead us to believe......) And seat belts from Japanese manufactured cars must be replaced to get a warrant of fitness in NZ. So there must be variances in the "height of the bar"??????????
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I've been down hard and fast twice. Both times the helmet was trashed but my head didn't suffer even a bump. The first time in 1964 wearing a Bell helmet. The second time was in 2002 wearing an HJC. Broken arm, knee, ribs she ran over my foot, I bounced and rolled about 70 feet before she caught up to me and nailed the left foot. Leathers were not in good shape, helmet was sorely used. Other than the slight injuries to me, no problem. Scoot was in pieces all over the highway. She was talking on a cell phone and didn't see the red light. Today, after trying out a bunch of helmets, we have Nolan flip-fronts. white. $200 each. reasonably quiet, darned comfortable, slot for the Starcom earpiece and easy to change screens. The flip fronts don't have the protection of the fullface but are sure a lot easier for us since we both wear glasses and it's easy to put the helmets on, drink a cup of coffee, etc with the flipfront.
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Yes, safety is important, and..........
I've just been reading this blog:
There and Back Again which covers a short trip by Tim C into Africa. (Great pics BTW). In there, he remakes an important point about open face/flip front helmets. When dealing with local people, including the local police, he can interact with them far better when they can see his mouth moving and his big smile. This helps him to get through the police checkpoints with minimal recourse to bribery. |
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Nitro are cheap because they are Chinese imports. I had a f'glass Nitro and found the foam lining deteriorated quite quickly, meaning it was too slack on my head. This in itself shouldn't be a problem if you're buying with the intention of replacing your lid 2x or 3x more often and not just buying because you're too tight to buy anything else. Come on, be honest.
I found that it's biggest problem was that it fogged up far too easily, even with the vents open and was the main reason I stopped using it. The visor release mechanism is awkward and looks fragile and the vent fittings became slack quite quickly. It's best feature was that it had a large aperture giving very good visibility but needed a strip of tape at the top of the visor when the sun was low. It was fairly quiet at speed and quite comfortable until the foam started to degrade. I have a Nolan at the minute but I think the best helmets on a budget at present, only in my opinion of course, are HJC. I like the Nolan's but won't be buying a flip-front as most reviews state they leak badly. I'll probably replace mine with a Shoei flip-front as I also wear glasses. KBC look good value but I think the iridium visor should be last on the list of priorities in this price range. As for the £37 lids, are these the ones that Aldi had in last year. B-Square is Aldi's own brand and while the gloves and underwear are OK, the helmets have been massively criticised by German bike mags. Motorrad said they couldn't believe they passed the minimum standards of the safety tests. Buy one by all means if you think your head is only worth £37! I believe Arai have had a hand in developing the new safety standards that are coming which can't be a bad thing. |
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Hey Craig, there's a lot of truth there from what I and others I know have experienced with helmets. My AGV: went the same way with the forehead lining - the foam gave up quite quickly (my previous post refers). My mates Nolan: leaked, around the visor from memory because of a poor seal. Yep, I have electricians insulation tape around the top of my visor (two layers in depth) - it does the job. Can't see a problem with private companies assisting in developing Government testing standards - after all, politicians and other jobs-worthies know next to nothing about such things, especially technical matters. In fact, the only way to get it right would be to consult with those who know what they are talking about, and dealing with, constantly. If you look at the Arai technical information for the Arai Tour X helmet it sounds very much like they already do impact testing to a high standard. |
The scheme will use a "star" award - Helmets that merely pass the test will be awarded 1 star. No helmets will be awarded 5 stars in order to encourage helmet manufacturers to design a better (safer) helmet.
It will interesting to see how the cheaper lids compare to the likes of the more expensive "designer" makes... The scheme is already hard at work and the first results should be ready very soon.... I suppose we should all keep a close eye on that website... |
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Motorcycle News sparks new helmet safety policy - Motorcycle News - MCN Motorcycle News have been pushing for such a scheme for a while and were the first publication to announce it was coming. Seeing as all MCN's helmet safety and advice video's feature Arai helmets and Arai's technical staff, you can bet Arai has had more than a fair amount of influence, directly or indirectly. My last post stated that I'd heard Arai had a hand in it, meaning they were consulted, not they are devising the tests. I will find the exact article if you're really that bothered about it. It's no secret that Arai have been pushing for this for a while, probably in the knowledge that their products would do well out of it. I'd be very surprised if the first helmets to be rated weren't Arai's. I would also expect MCN and Arai to regularly pressure the testing authorities to "move the goalposts" once the testing criteria is established. I think this is a good thing, after all, any star rating or system of testing that is devised without consultation with the industry will be about as meaningful as the ACU's current Gold sticker certification. |
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There's little new about the actual tests being talked about here - the difference is rather than just a pass or fail the results will be graded. There's an interesting article here about the merits of various test methods and the interpretation of their results: Motorcycle Helmet Design, Helmet Standards and Head Protection - Gear Box - Motorcyclist Online |
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That's NOT a valid reason to keep all of us (it's own customers) in the dark! It may be for you but I am sure most would prefer to know a little more about the results of these tests. We're talking about peoples safety here not Colonel Saunders secret ingredients! In any case we don't wish to know how they manufacture their product just how well it stands up to these exhaustive tests. If another manufacturer wanted to find out more about their product and how it is constructed it would be a straightforward job to forensically evaluate the product in laboratory conditions (which I suspect is done as a matter of course anyway). This is fantastic news for all motorcyclists not just those in the UK. I am sure that the vast majority of website visitors will be bikers outside the UK. It's amazing it's taken the government so long to get their act together in this respect. I don't know about your last comment regarding Arai producing the best helmets.... There can be no doubt however that their product is one of the most expensive. The most expensive doesn't always equate into the best value and safest. Lets all just wait to see the results before we leap to the defence of the likes of Arai etc... Neil |
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Do you think that the MotoGP and superbike riders as well as a large proportion of the Formula One drivers wear Arai because they want to be look good?? It's not because they've all got big sponsorship deals to wear them. Do you think the tests used to determine the star ratings are going to be more demanding than the FIM or FIA's requirements for motorsport use at this level? The fact is if you buy a helmet from a decent maufacturer (not necessarily expensive) then it will be safe. The testing methods used around the world are well established - some are more severe than others, but the international brands like Arai, Shoei, Bell, etc pass them all. The reason some of us choose to spend more on a 'premium' branded helmet is the same reason people choose to buy a Mercedes instead of a Renault, or an Audi instead of a Vauxhall. If you appreciate the quality then you'll pay for it. |
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You're talking about access to the full test results. The basics in layman's terms are freely available on Arai's website if you're interested. They're one of the few to disclose even the basics, even if it is just for marketing reasons. Are you a materials engineer or a specialist in destructive testing? I did my fair share of this kind of work at technical college and university and trust me, the detailed results don't make light reading. The average buyer will barely understand what they're looking at anyway. Yes, Arai's are expensive and is the reason I have a Nolan at present. I prefer to spend a little less so I can afford to replace it more often. If anyone, either a magazine or a company is pushing for greater safety standards and forcing others to raise their game, it will push all the crap off the market. In which case, I fully agree with you that this is great news for everyone, except for those who are dead set on buying a sub £50 helmet from Aldi's that is. I've got to ask the question though, what's the point in starting a topic asking for honest opinions on Nitro helmets if you're just going to shout everyone down because their opinion differs from yours? My opinion is simply that they lack the longevity of products from more established manufacturers and fog up far too easily. However, I still use mine at the kart track but would not take it out on the road due to degradation of the foam lining. You say you're an ex-bike cop so I'm sure you will be all too familiar with the reasons of why you shouldn't use ill-fitting helmets. One thing's for sure, companies who have been in the business as long as Arai, AGV, Shoei, etc, etc, know how to make a better product than any Chinese upstart. Let's be honest, they can't even make a half-decent copy of Honda's ancient CG125. At the end of the day, you don't get anything for free. Even AGV make their lower priced helmets outside of Italy using cheaper labour, so if you've bought what looks like a £200 lid for £80, you know corners have been cut somewhere, not just in labour costs but in development, production or materials and I believe this will show when the NCAP-style rating is implemented. |
UVEX Enduro
Just spoken to the local bike shop and they say the Helmet is new and not due out till end of March. I'll be keen to see this one when it comes out....
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Don't guess any more !
Here it is , the answer....to the helmet debate, one of the best articles on the subject
Motorcycle Helmet Design, Helmet Standards and Head Protection - Gear Box - Motorcyclist Online |
Kbc Tk8
I just bought a new cheap helmet KBC TK8 for about $150.00 (I live in Brazil) It is Snell and DOT rated and seems to have a big success rate in the states. It is comfortable and the noise level is bearable at high speeds. I think it will do the job, of course I do not want to test it! :eek3:
I chose the KBC over an HJC that looked better but was not more comfortable. http://www.jafrum.com/core/media/med...ebbd8f3781b105 |
This makes interesting reading
Translated version of http://www.motorradonline.de/d/133640?template=d_mrd_gl_drucken&drucken=d_mrd_ne_ artikel_1bild&_back_url=%2Fmrd%2Fhome It's Google's translated version of Motorrad's review of the B-Square helmet sold by Lidl. From the look of this, it only just scraped a pass in the ECE testing. I said in a previous post that B-Square was Aldi's own brand, which is incorrect as it's Lidl's. My most sincerest apologies to anyone who has spent the last month trawling branches of Aldi's for their new £37 helmet. :stupid: |
I reckon that, in the 40 plus years I've been riding road and racing bikes, this must be the most discussed topic!
Until the governing bodies of the sport; ACU, RAC, ect, get to grips with proper testing and publish the results we'll never really know which is best for safety. That'll not happen though, as the smaller companies will fall behind and leave the big three to rule the roost and prices will soar. Comfortwise I reckon that only one person can be the judge of that, and that's the wearer. As for being 'fit for purpose', I reckon that riders need what riders need; some like a full face, some an open face, some a flip front, and every rider is different but not all manufacturers cater for all riders, hence riders wearing what they perhaps judge to be a less 'safe' helmet of 'cheaper' make. Every rider has different requirements of a helmet, apart from it's efficiency when we really need it; in an accident, but safety also means having the 'right' helmet for you to start with. For instance I wear glasses and I'm a bit claustrophobic. Not a problem? Well, ride facing into the low winter sun here in the North, especially after a rain shower, and with a visor (or goggles) and glasses any imperfection or smudge on the visor or lens makes it impossible to see. Flip the visor up (or take the goggles off) and the wind swirling behind my glasses makes my eyes water badly, and I end up pulling in to clear my vision. I have tried lots of full face helmets over the years, but the only one I've been happy to wear for any longer than a few minutes was a Griffin, which tells you how long ago that was. If I could buy one now I'd happily pay what 'A' charge for their top model. That helmet had a good distance between my mouth and the front chinbar, and I could ride for days with no problems at all, but 'P' and 'A', not to mention both 'S' makes, have been tried and all make me feel too constricted. It's not just 'discomfort', it verges on real distress, and is a failing I know, but we all have our fears, don't we? Motocross helmets are fine, with lots of room and a huge area of vision, so I feel fine with them, and the peak can be tilted to keep out the sun from my glasses. But, at cruising speeds on the BMW wind can be a problem with such a big peak. So, I bought an open face B*ll Tourlite, a pair of O*kl*y L frame goggles and a leather face mask cover the gap between chin and jacket collar and I'm fine! OK, in a crash the lack of frontal protection may result in some facial damage, but if I'm comfortable and concentrating I'm less likely to suffer an accident than if I'm worried all the time and can't see properly! One company (A) makes what is almost ideal for me; but the peak is still too big to be comfy at speed, while yet another (who also make bikes, German ones) has a good sized peak, but too constrictive a chinguard. So, my open face Be** is not as expensive as a full face from the latest big manufacturer currently in the public image with WSB riders wearing their latest design, nor as safe as it offers less facial protection, but it's right for me. |
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Shoei have just released a similar helmet as well, so it may be worth taking a look at that. |
Ok, Im going to open a can of worms here.
1. When it comes to helmet safety, cheaper = better. Do not buy an expensive Snell approved helmet - they are DANGEROUS, and more likely to cause injury in over 90% of accidents. 2. Do not buy a flip up helmet - once they are hit and no longer flip, you can't remove them. Almost lost a rider a year back because of that. Garry from Oz. |
Buy an expensive helmet in the sales!
On the price front: Helmets are one thing I've noticed are regularly in sales.
I got my Shark RSF Race oojah cum spiff for half price last year (about £100 I think) because it had been sitting on the shelf for a year or two. I think helmets often end up in sales because sizing is so personal that they often don't get sold. It's a great helmet and MUCH better than the Carberg I bought for £100 (it's full price). The thing about more expensive helmets is not just that they should be stronger, but they are quieter, more comfortable, less prone to misting up etc. Matt :) |
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Seems to me you have already made up your mind by buying a Nitro lid. If its simply a debate on cheaper v dearer, then its a differnt story I believe, if its of interest, that you do get what you pay for to a greater or lesser degree. Wasting money, in my opinion, is buying a race rep helmet at £80 more than the same model in plain colours. I have owned a Shoei, and then have moved to Arai as they are most comfortable for me. I also own an HJC moto-cross lid, so its not a question of blind brand loyalty. What do you get? The R&D such a "BIG" one can invest in, removable liners, interchangeable pad sizes, decent venting systems to keep your head cooler, or in my case, lessen the steaming of my glasses, does not come cheaply. In certain cases, improvements in less wind noise, and better seals on the visor are also apparent. Its not all about crash protection; its useability and longevity. When you have to replace a lid, unless you've binned it, its because the liners have decayed, not that the shell is suddenly weakened. A friend works in Accessory sales and he once showed me a cross section of an Arai lid and another popular brand (courtesy of some race sponsorship). Crash, friction, penetration tests are done on a standardised area of the helmet, the same way emissions are tested at set revs, and not through out the rev range often giving modern bikes nice little flat spots. In this case, the Arai was a consistent 3-4mm shell thickness throughout and the other lid was down to about 1 mm in parts of the shell that, conveniently where not in the zone that is used for tests: not fun if that is where you land. Not saying all cheaper lids are like this, but saying that pricier lids are no better is also not necessarily the case. All that this article you refer to says is that the Nitro lid, when tested in these set ways performed, as well, and was cheaper, thus good value. Would it survive closer, more thorough scrutiny? Perhaps, or perhaps not. I do not see that this industry will be so different from others. Generic Drug companies wait for patents to expire on existing medications so they can sell them at a cheaper rate than the Pharma companies sell them, eg Ibuprofen. They did not do the R&D so the costs are cheaper and so is the price. However, this also means that the technology is (in the case of medications) 15 years out of date. How out of date is the technology of these cheaper lid companies? Which is the better bike, the Honda CG125, or the Chinese made equivalent, after they bought rights from Honda to copy the design. Me? I think the Honda. Although the design is the same, the Quality Control is not. Same with lids: Do we really know how much cross batch variation there is. Where di they get their manufacturing specs from? Is it just a Shoei design that was scrapped from the development line as another design had more promise? If the safety test requirements were upped by another 50% would the cheaper lids still do as well? I hope this SHARP initiative yeilds positive things, but as specified, bikers are only a V. small percentage of road users. Will the government really divert enough funds to create a programme based on good science, or will it simply fill a gap with psuedo-science and look proactive to the casual observer. That is to say, will the tests really mimic the actual traumas a lid must overcome in order to protect a cranium in the event of a real-life impact, not just a bit wet-and-dry on a treadmill. To give a parallel example: kids now do exams at 11 yrs, to show the government is so proactive about education, whilst teachers typically say its an utter waste of time... PR stunt? Lets hope not for our heads' sakes. All that said, I hear X-lites aren't bad!! Right... where's my Takei? PS: The fact I plan to shortly to post asking for advice on open face lids is pure coincidence and ALL input is welcome there!! Ta muchly... |
Feeling stoopid...
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I knew I should have read all the posts before writing anything!!! You'd think I'd learn!! |
Farq once you drop a lid you Replace it simple as that, Time limit for lid use is about 2 years, and less if you ride over winter or in extremes.
If you can't afford an expensive helmet then ebay is your friend. |
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I'm interested in your comments about flip-ups. Most of the people on the HUBB will be wearing flipups, as I do. Yet I once read a throwaway remark by a helmet manufacturer dismissing flipups as useless - but thats all I could find out about them. If anyone has some hard facts/research on this it would be useful to see. |
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Before you go out and buy a cut price lid made in a near third world country, ask yourself this. Would you really buy a new, Indian-built Austin Montego? |
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A rider from France came down under to join a group of us locals on a Sydney - Melbourne - Brisbane tour via all the twisty back roads. Going down a mountain, 50kms from the nearest small town, the rider locked the rear wheel on his GSX1400 (we were all riding 14s), ran wide on the corner and basically went head on in to an oncoming Subaru. His head hit the A pillar as well as the windscreen and when we went to pick him up off the road (not literally) he was drowning in his own blood inside his flip up Schubert. Although we got the visor open we could not flip the front of the helmet up or take it off his head (ultimately the ambulance officers had to saw the front of the helmet off to remove it) and as with most flip-ups you can't take them off without first flipping them (flip-ups have the front section of the helmet sitting much closer to the mouth/jaw than a regular full-face and many of them actually fit under your chin). The rider is now back in France but was comatose for a fortnight then spent 3 months in rehab in Melbourne before being repatriated and spending a further 3 months in rehab in Paris. He is still an outpatient, and because of his brain injuries has limited control over the left side of his body. As for my comment about cheaper being better, it is based on Snell certification. Snell certification means a manufacturer charges more for their helmet (it's a higher standard and better isn't it? - yes and NO). Basically to achieve Snell certification means the helmet outer and inner must be very firm to pass the cannonball pendulum intrusion test. The problem being of course is that the firm inner can no longer absorb lesser shocks, and transmits them directly to the skull (which transmits them to the brain and causes brain injury). Accidents which cause lesser shocks represent 90+% percent of all accidents (and just about 100% of all single vehicle incidents), so in effect, by buying a "better, more expensive" Snell approved helmet you are increasing your risk of brain injury in 90% of your possible accident scenarios. Basically it's all Snell’s fault - they just kept raising the bar to make their impact intrusion standards better than everyone else, but they unfortunately forgot that intrusion is not the be all and end all for helmet safety. Garry from Oz. |
What a great thread - wonderful read :-)
Okay, so here's my two pennies worth. I wrote a story a few years ago, when this new government body was first being thought of. The 'Big 2' were getting rather naffed at the fact that people had entered the market and were able to sell lids at £38 that hit the safety standards for Europe. They pointed out (and started Lobbying the EU and UK Governments) that the existing tests were too easy to 'engineer' - IE impact tests were always carried out in exactly the same place on every lid - enabling the manufacturer to make a lid that 'passed the test' rather than 'protected the rider'. The Big 2 (and others) make a point of testing their lids far in excess of the EU standards, they trade on the very fact that their lids are the safest on the market, not that they are 'good enough'. I was invited to take a look at how they tested their lids, what they tested, how they selected lids (at random) off the production line and then destroyed them in random impact tests (amongst others). It was a real eye opener. I approached other brands sold in the UK and was politely, but firmly told, they would not expose their testing methods, but that all their lids met European Safety standards. So for me it boils down to this, do I want a lid that is 'good enough' or do I want a lid that 'protects the rider'? Other considerations of course are design, long-term comfort (especially important for us types), and quality of the 'fittings'. My own choice after seeing how the testing is done? Shoei, Arai or Schuberth without a second thought. I wont pay extra for the flash designs, I always buy the plan simple models, and as my head has grown and settled into a shape I find 9 out of 10 Shoei's fit me well and I'm becoming less of an Arai man! My other thought here, is that I'm happy to pay a premium knowing that I'm funding an after-care service which includes having my lid tested after a bump, includes getting it serviced for free, and most importantly funds further R&D into making lids as safe as possible.... ask your brand before you buy if they carry out any R&D into helmet safety beyond regulation testing. |
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The whole story of helmet safety is vastly complicated. I certainly find it difficult to form a clear conclusion - which is maybe just as well - it'll keep me looking. I repeat what I said earlier though - that price does not automatically equal quality. When I hear that said I think of how our cash-driven values corrupt our thinking. |
Bump!
Bumping this thread because it contains very interesting information....
Has anyone else anything to bring to the party?:welcome: |
Well, the SHARp scheme is up and running, and (at least to someone who believes/trusts it) it's become quite obvious that there are good cheap and expensive helmets just as there are bad cheap/expensive helmets. A 80 quid Lazer scoring higher than some of the 300+ quid Shoeis, Arais, etc. etc. kind of proves the point (at least IMHO).
Whether it's a good test or not (I've hear and read opinions on both ends of the spectrum) is up to you, however perhaps the fact that there's a test that's not based on a purely "pass-fail" system, but rather graded, if nothing else, will make people realize that "if it's EU/Snell/DOT/whatever certified it's good enough" could mean risking your life. And of course that the idea that dearer=better isn't at all true (although looking at the results to date, as someone said early on in this thread, spending under 100 quid on a lid is probably not such a great idea). Either way, lets face reality, if you fall off your bike at 80mph and hit a guardrail (or other relatively solid object), you'll be dead no matter WHICH helmet you're wearing. Just like hitting a brick wall at that speed with your car. Unless you believe in miracles that is... Now if they could just add some kind of objective testing for noise, ventilation, fogging up. etc (after all wearing a helmet that is, above all, comfortable, helps you concentrate on the more important things and thus helps avoid accidents in general). I have to say though, I'm curious to see (when they finally get to it) how Flip-ups, off-road, etc. helmets do in the tests... |
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And they are not expensive ... about 110 quid at openfacehelmets.com And they are much lighter than a full face. |
I've been reading this thread and it says more about people in general than anything revolutionary about helmets/design etc.
I have a theory that wearing any approved motorcycle helmet is 99.something% of the head protection you'll ever find in motorcycling. The remaining protection is probably attributable to quality of fit etc. In the same way that people rationalise playing the national lottery. Massaging a tiny probability to make it seem realistic and justify their expenditure beyond what is in reality just a harmless opportunity to endulge oneself in some daydreaming! Buying expensive helmets over less expensive approved helmets is similar - justifing the expenditure that *may* (remember this is just my theory) be completely out of proportion to the real additional risk. Stop kidding yourself that anecdotal evidence - or even that old chestnut 'gut feeling' - 'proves' you are statistically safer - these lovely, expensive helmets just look and feel better. Leave it at that and don't stick your neck out saying things you can't prove. |
There has to be some amount of consumerism, there is always going to be a company that says their product is better and a consumer that will agree. No argument there and if you want to pay extra to look like a track racer that is indeed your business.
As an engineer and motorcyclist though I can guarantee that I could design a better helmet test that the current BS, EU or DOT. The current test is a compromise between expense, enforcability and repeatability, while my "better" test might not prove to be so balanced (would you want all helmets to be £700 so that the worst 1% come off legal sale?) . As such they set the bar at the 75-95% level and don't take into account the finer points such as visibility, misting and different types of flip front mechanism. Discussion here is useful IMHO. There is no way a Roof which uses plastic straps with press stud poppers to hold the chin bar (mine split in a year, probably because I used it in open face mode and subjected the popper straps to vibration and thus failure by fatigue) compares to a Schuberth with a proper mechanism. Now maybe the Roof is designed so a paramedic can open it with a scalpel if you are choking, but somehow I doubt it. If chin protection is what you are looking for the Schuberth is better and that's what you hopefully find out here. Andy |
The guy that taught me to ride was an ex track racer, he said that alot of the cheaper basic models is what the track racers use as only those with big sponsers could afford to keep messing up the really expensive lids.
He pretty much said that if you expect to go down alot as a beginner or if thats the conditions your riding in buy cheap and replace when compromised, it makes more sense than using an expensive lid and not replacing when you think its taken a hit. He also added his own lid was expensive because he liked to look like a fighter pilot/stormtrooper not because it offered better protection. |
Hi my 10p worth here is the Helmet Test done by uk gov. SHARP - The Helmet Safety Scheme I pers go for what I find comfey first then the price is tthe second factor.
M & P have some helmets £100 with internal bluethooth |
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