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  #16  
Old 16 Jan 2008
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That's the point of this thread, there is soon going to be a UK independent organisation which carries out these kinds of tests and the results data will be available for everyone to see. This new organisation will have the status of a quasi-government "quango" and will operate hand-in-hand with the existing British Standard Testing Authorities. It's damn good news for all of us because helmet manufacturers will no longer be able to keep us all in the dark the way they all do now. It will be most interesting to see how the smaller cheaper manufacturers fare... Will I be proven correct in my own assumptions? I wonder...
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  #17  
Old 17 Jan 2008
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That testing body is the only was you can take the guess work out of things.

Coming from an outdoor retail background i can assure you lots of fudgy things go on in the background when it comes to branding and costs.

i can name several instances where "mid-range" products are re-labeled, re-styled or simply sold in another market/country under a different "top-end" brand. (now i didn't mention "low range"!) Often the styling, finish of the product that will make the difference between "mid-range" and "top-end". Also it comes down to "market value" -what you or I are "willing" to pay for things. Sometimes vanity will play apart - brand envy. "shiney kit syndrome". But also in the case of safety i.e. helmets "i want the best money can buy" sound idea. But there must be a point in that price range that the safety of the helmet doesn't really increase, and we are only paying for marketing.....
When i was a teenager i came off my mountain bike flying down a hill at 45 km/h, went over the handlebars and landed on my face full impact. ( mum always said "use your head for once!") 65 stitches and a grade 31/2 out of 5 head injury (as bad as it gets without perment brain damage).
Right in line with my temple is was a large chunk missing out of the helmet (Bell top $$$) For sure i'd be dead with "A" helmet but did the fact that it was top end helmet have anything to do with??? I don't have a crystal ball so I'll never know............

I saw a Airoh S4 in the shop the other day, Seems not a bad deal in the Arai tour-X type of helmet. I immediately tryed on the Shoei version and would be happy with ether fit for my dome. I saw a praising review of this helmet here; Airoh Helmets - webBikeWorld
Seamed to think it was very good, with very low noise, less than a tour-X. Also light weight. I saw this in NL for 190 euros. removable visor and peak washable liner etc.

Also Uvex Enduro. same design etc. and IMHO a nice looking helmet too! I've seen it advertised on the net for 169 - 199 euro range. And Uvex being a saftey equipment company!!!!??? how bad can it be? I noticed this helmet didn't show on the english uvex web site but it did on the german site.

To quote stuxtttr; "my current one cost me £37" That's being a bit keen for me!!! But maybe this new independent organisation may see us all buying this one if it gets good results! it could be the bargin of the century or a death trap.........

But it comes down to... it's your head going into that helmet......
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It's not that life is so short, It's just that we're dead for so long....
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  #18  
Old 17 Jan 2008
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This debate is one that comes up quite frequently on various forums - are the premium branded helmets from Arai, Shoei, etc really worth 3-4 times the asking price of other brands??
The problem with relying on the various helmet tests out there is that the people drawing up the test requirements all have different ideas about what makes a good helmet. The proposed UK star rating isn't really any different in this respect. The designers know exactly how to make a helmet pass a particular test and tailor their designs accordingly - we'll no doubt see local manufacturers tailoring their design so that they perform well to gain a higher star rating. Whether this will make a better helmet than one designed to meet another country's standard is debateable.
If you're buying from any known brand then you'll be getting a decent helmet that will do a good job of protecting your head.
What the tests won't tell you is how comfortable the helmet is, how noisy it is, will the visor seal properly, etc
What you pay for with the likes of Arai is the quality of finish and backup - different liners to tailor the fit, quality visors, readily available spares and so on.
I've got 4 helmets in my wardrobe - 3 Arais and a Bell MX lid. I've worn my Arai road helmets for 12 hours a day without discomfort, and the oldest one still fits like a new helmet after 10's of thousands of miles use. Expensive, but worth every penny if you're doing long days in the saddle.
As far as £37 helmets go - you've got to be kidding - how much do you think was spent on research and design if they're selling them at that sort of price. £80-100 is a more realistic startingprice if you want something you can trust.
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  #19  
Old 17 Jan 2008
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Helmets.....

I bought a ROOF Boxer.......Pile of ..... worst lid ever. period!

I have 2 lids now. an open face White Lid made By TONG HO HSING INDUSTRIAL CO. LTD ( Taiwan) bought in 2000, worn daily, dropped, thrown about, its my off road lid really, has twin 'D' ring fastening, have used it for probably over 50,000 miles...... cost 39 quid.

Lid 2 is an Italian JEBS, Black in Colour, Full face, 1350 grams, is very comfy, fairly quiet, has a proper seatbelt type buckle and fits properly.I wear it whenever I am going to be using main roads a lot... but I prefer an open face lid. Cost 75 Euros


Martyn
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  #20  
Old 17 Jan 2008
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Martyn,

I too have been considering an open-faced helmet for offroad work. Having seen all those lovely photos of your travels in Spain and the lack of any human activity whatsoever, I can quite understand why you choose to use an open faced helmet. Unfortunately back here in the UK the roads are constantly clogged with traffic (and moronic car drivers driving too fast). So I wouldn't have the confidence to use an open faced helmet on the roads here. Neil
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  #21  
Old 17 Jan 2008
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Open face lids ......one major drawback!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kentfallen View Post
Martyn,

I too have been considering an open-faced helmet for offroad work. Having seen all those lovely photos of your travels in Spain and the lack of any human activity whatsoever, I can quite understand why you choose to use an open faced helmet. Unfortunately back here in the UK the roads are constantly clogged with traffic (and moronic car drivers driving too fast). So I wouldn't have the confidence to use an open faced helmet on the roads here. Neil
Try hitting a wasp at about 75mph..... its abit like putting out a lit cigarette with your face!
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  #22  
Old 18 Jan 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martynbiker View Post
I bought a ROOF Boxer.......Pile of ..... worst lid ever. period!


Martyn

I mentioned Roof in my last post to see if there is any opinion out there: vastly over-rated methinks? They certainly do not fit my head shape and the visor is right up against your face when it is closed.
This may be a case of styling (that "right over the back" flipup) getting higher priority than comfort etc.
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  #23  
Old 18 Jan 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevesawol View Post
Coming from an outdoor retail background i can assure you lots of fudgy things go on in the background when it comes to branding and costs.

......

Come on you guys and girls working in the trade; you can spill the beans here and tell the truth!!
Let's have some more information about branding, following of fashion, tricks of the trade and the like.
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  #24  
Old 18 Jan 2008
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Update - from Rider Magazine Feb 2008

IMPORTANT DEVELOPMENT - ALL BIKERS NEED TO SEE THIS!

1. The UK Department of Transport will be responsible for these new IMPACT TESTS. The Organisation will be known as SHARP

2. Every helmet on the UK market will be tested for IMPACT.

3. Helmets will be rewarded up to 5 stars.

4. Helmets will display these stars to show the test result for that helmet.

5. All scores will be published on a website - SHARP - The Helmet Safety Scheme

GOOD NEWS FOR ALL OF US........ Including bikers outside UK who can check the website for their make of helmet. Heres what it will look like - Tests : Results : SHARP - The Helmet Safety Scheme

Pass on this website link.....


Why SHARP?

Motorcyclists are our most vulnerable groups of road users - making up just 1% of traffic in the UK but accounting for 18% of all deaths; the Government has already committed £1.5M in 2007 to educating motorcyclists and other road users about better behaviour that could reduce casualties.
There were 599 motorcyclist fatalities in 2006 and our research shows that approximately 80% of motorcyclists killed and 70% of those with serious injuries sustain head injuries. Scientific analysis has shown that we could save up to 50 motorcyclists' lives a year if all riders wore helmets scoring highly in our proposed rating.
Laboratory tests have shown that there are real differences in the safety performance of motorcycle helmets available in the market. While they all satisfy the minimum legal requirements, we believe that by providing objective advice concerning the level of protection a safety helmet provides will assist riders when making this very important purchase decision. We have seen that differences in safety performance do not necessarily follow price trends.
We'll test the most popular helmets first and aim to publish the first ratings as early as Spring 2008. It will take time to build a complete database, but in the future we hope that there would be a rating for every helmet available.
There is no comparative rating system available for motorcycle helmets anywhere in the world!


SHARP is the Safety Helmet and Assessment Rating Programme - it's the new helmet safety scheme for motorcyclists.
SHARP will enable riders to more easily select a helmet which matches their needs. It will provide consumers with an independent assessment of the safety performance of helmets sold in the UK. The SHARP RATING reflects the performance of each helmet model following a series of advanced tests in our lab and will rate helmets from 1-5 stars.
Laboratory tests show there are real differences in the safety performance of motorcycle helmets available in the market. While they all satisfy the minimum legal requirements, providing objective advice concerning the level of protection a safety helmet provides will assist riders when making this very important buying decision.
We have begun testing motorcycle helmets to our advanced assessments and from Spring 2008, SHARP will offer you a single, easy to understand rating for helmet models available within the UK.

We believe that a helmet that performs well when assessed against our new procedures will offer users a significantly increased level of protection. Our research has shown that up to 50 motorcyclists' lives could be saved every year if everyone wore a helmet that scores highly in the SHARP testing system.
Look for the SHARP logo and be sure to check out the SHARP rating when you think about getting your next helmet!

Our Tests - What's Different?

We have brought together some of the best aspects from the standards currently in use around the world and defined more rigorous tests and assessments than are currently in use for Regulation. We'll be testing protection across a much wider range of speeds.
We have not just looked at impact energy management, but also considered the areas of the helmet most likely to be struck and the risk of brain injury from that impact. In-depth real world accident studies have allowed us to link specific laboratory impacts with real world injury so that our tests address specific risk of head injury. We will impact helmets against anvils to represent both flat surfaces and kerbstones, testing protection over the whole helmet not just specific points.
We have developed a suite of enhanced test procedures and assessment criteria for helmets, so that a helmet performing well when assessed against it would offer real and significant increases in head protection. Our tests are:
Linear impact tests - Energy absorption tests
The helmet is placed onto a test head form and dropped from a certain height onto different types of anvils. Acceleration is measured at the centre of gravity of the head form. We measure the energy absorbed by the helmet at various locations and speeds.
Oblique impact tests - Rotational acceleration by friction
The helmet is placed onto a test head form and dropped from a certain height against an inclined anvil with a very rough surface. Rotational acceleration is measured in the test head form. Limit values allow us to assess the risk of brain and neck injury.
The results from 22 different impacts will be combined into a single easy to understand star rating and published to provide consumers with comparative information to assist them in making informed purchase decisions.
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Last edited by kentfallen; 18 Jan 2008 at 19:43.
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  #25  
Old 18 Jan 2008
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nice one

Cheers Neil! a true scholar and a gentleman!

I'm living in NL these days and it's hard to get ones hands on english language Mag's etc.

I'm amazed it's been this long for this sort of thing to be done!! The likes of the FIA must do something similar for motorsport?

Thanks once again!
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'99 R1100GS - In a suitable shade of black

It's not that life is so short, It's just that we're dead for so long....
"The world is a book, those who do not travel read only one page." ~ Saint Augustin
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  #26  
Old 18 Jan 2008
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Always nice to help our Dutch friends across the water.... funny isn't it, the English and Dutch have nearly always got on well together. Probably something to do with the fact I've never come across a Dutchman who doesn't speak good English! Or perhaps our comradeship during WW2? By the way, you're troops are doing a fine job in Afganistan alongside our brave lads...

This news is so important for US ALL that I have taken the liberty of opening up another separate thread on the Hubb...
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Last edited by kentfallen; 18 Jan 2008 at 19:46.
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  #27  
Old 18 Jan 2008
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I agree with you completely Neil! So does my Dutch girlfriend! I on the other hand am a Kiwi!
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'99 R1100GS - In a suitable shade of black

It's not that life is so short, It's just that we're dead for so long....
"The world is a book, those who do not travel read only one page." ~ Saint Augustin
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  #28  
Old 18 Jan 2008
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By the way Neil... have you served? (going by your site)
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'99 R1100GS - In a suitable shade of black

It's not that life is so short, It's just that we're dead for so long....
"The world is a book, those who do not travel read only one page." ~ Saint Augustin
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  #29  
Old 18 Jan 2008
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No I'm ex M/C Plod (Policeman)!

I have an interest in civic war memorials in general. I transcribe the things and when I come across a man who is not recorded on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission Debt of Honour, I try and make a case to have his name added belatedly. So far I have had 11 men (i have just submitted another 12) who now have their names recorded as war casualties and all have now got war graves which is nice because before they had no headstone or grave marker. It's not easy work but it's worthwhile in my opinion. These men gave their lives for OUR freedom and it's right that their sacrifice is NEVER forgotten. It's always the English speaking countries of the world (UK,USA,Canada,Australia,NZ, etc..) who seem to get left with the job of fighting tyranny and terrorism. Don't want to get too political on this "bike" forum but in Afganistan all the fighting (in the South) is being left to troops from UK,USA,Denmark,Holland,Canada. The rest of NATO stands idly by while our men give their lives (the few German troops away from the hot spots in the North even refuse to go out in the dark let alone fight which is surprising given the reputation of their army and history)... Oh well, you did ask!

All the very best to you and your girlfriend.
Neil
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Last edited by kentfallen; 18 Jan 2008 at 22:54.
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  #30  
Old 18 Jan 2008
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now worries mate i agree with everything you've said!

No bother at all! I spent several years in the NZ Army TA. Quite a few of my friends back in NZ are in blue. I'm keen to head down that path myself, though now that i find myself in NL. I have the not so small task of having to learn Dutch to a complete fluency level to do that here!

If you're ever coming through Nl and want a brew or a place to crash give me a yell!
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'99 R1100GS - In a suitable shade of black

It's not that life is so short, It's just that we're dead for so long....
"The world is a book, those who do not travel read only one page." ~ Saint Augustin
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