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Well, we've had some time since the 19th C to improve materials. Maybe you'd like the kind of armour they used in the 13th C, if you're into early technology; and that would be a choice. Waxed cotton worked just as badly a century ago, but it was the best they had. Sorry, Andy, this is the 21st C.
How can they be improved if they have to have glued on fasteners and cease to function when dirty? What we have is more proffitable materials that work well enough to be accepted. Goretex can be welded while cotton has to be sewn with a waxed thread. Nylon thread does not absorb moisture to any great extent, natural fibres need treating. The current batch of modern gear is only more expensive at retail prices because the shops are selling to people prepared to pay and still be damp on the few occasions they get caught in the rain. The current crop of Belstaff copies are cheap because the fashion market won't pay bike shop prices unless they get the name and they are mostly made in what for want of a better word we'll call third world sweat shops (mine's Egyptian).
It's actually the same with the suit of armour you mention. Good early renaissance steel armour is shaped to deflect to sword strikes and with the layers underneath would stop small bullets (which is why the military use 3/4-inch musket balls for years). If you want something to save you in a hacking battle it's as good as kevlar. The reason it wasn't used for four hundred years is the cost of equipping enough people with it to make it effective. Knight versus archer is cash versus training. Knight versus musketeer is quality versus quantity, you can train a peasant to shoot faster than you can make the armour. Put some dodgy undersize actor in the armour without the leather and wool underneath and it ceases to function properly too . IMHO, Goretex bike gear is still at the red coat and needing four hands to carry your hat, pack and musket stage, not kevlar and ceramic plates.
Which makes me wonder why you brought up deerstalking and wildfowling ,so I guess we are both .
Anti BMW? Who me ?
I bought a Santiago because it seemed a well made jacket and was not as gaudy as the Rallye jacket .It was an expensive mistake ,I believe Maria and others have the same opinion .So I cannot recommend BMW jackets .I am sure that there are others with different opinions and experiences.
OK Dod, I'll spell it out very simply...the mention of wildfowling etc was because this "antique cotton" material (Belstaff's words) isn't even good enough for its declared purpose. You first said you used it for shooting, so this might have helped you get it. On topic.
"Anti BMW? Who me?" .... you have often referred to BMW clown suits. By all means criticise the gear, but don't call HU people "clowns" because they buy gear you don't like. Please?
The current batch of modern gear is only more expensive at retail prices because the shops are selling to people prepared to pay and still be damp on the few occasions they get caught in the rain.
I fully agree.
The current crop of Belstaff copies are cheap because the fashion market won't pay bike shop prices unless they get the name and they are mostly made in what for want of a better word we'll call third world sweat shops (mine's Egyptian).
Actually the Hooray Henry fashion market has saved waxed cotton and pushed up prices sky high for a product that costs little to make. £400 for a waxed cotton jacket? Come on!
Good stuff on ball resisting armour, and good stuff on the medieval economy....but after a good soaking, waxed cotton could stop a bullet or crossbow bolt, it's so stiff.
It was the nylon and Goretex that cost £400. I broke my own rule and thought that as the £250 one didn't work that well a more expensive one would. The extra £150 seems to just buy a different colour . The Egyptian wax cotton one was £99 plus just over £10 for a squeezy bottle of "treatment". The Drizabone was £65 as some sort of return/shop second and needed a bit of work washing and spraying. I'm guessing a few of the peole unconvinced about the waterproofness maybe got wet on the way home from the shop? A mate of mine bought a £45 Belstaff copy and it leaked until sprayed.
Hi Caminando, hi Dodger
Would it be ok if you took your personal semantic wildfowl/clownsuit BMW lovers/haters/whatever debate offline? It would IMHO assist the reading of this thread to not have to train the brain to zone out the pointless and petty hot air. It's not the first time.
I can see this developing into yet another flame war.
Vanson , a US company that makes quality gear ,has a waxed cotton jacket .
From the photos ,I like the look of it ,it has pockets with rounded corners which won't wear out or fray.
But no belt , so maybe it's just another fashion item , !
The one I got was a Belstaff Trialmaster. Knowing it had a history with bikes, I thought it would be pretty durable but obviously it's more of a fashion brand. I probably would get something a bit tougher for any serious journeys.
I have noticed in my many years riding and motoring in general that most people have accidents less than ten miles from home.
I have never worn armour and prefer a helmet with a peak to keep the sun out of my eyes. Do wear strong boots and gloves.
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