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  #31  
Old 18 Sep 2010
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Nice photo of Mr McQeen, I have a similar one and several others given to me by Roy Peplow, a member of the Triumph "A" team in that years event.

I was in a rather trendy bar in Harrogate last night. A significant percentage of the assembled trendy types were wearing Belstaff jackets. There were no motorcycles parked outside.

Today I was in Manchester to visit the Dainese shop, bought only a t-shirt there but not far away I was surprised to find Belstaff's flagship store. While the wife spent the housekeeping money, I had a good look 'round at all the stuff including the Icon jacket, a replica of Steve McQueens, and I can honestly say that, although expensive, it is all top quality stuff and very well made. No pockets for body armour though so probably best kept for pottering around on an old trials Cub or leaning against the trendiest of bars.
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  #32  
Old 19 Sep 2010
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Jackets with armour for those who are interested .

Classic Tourist Trophy Jacket - British Motorcycle Gear


Falstaff Motorcycle Jacket :: Aerostich/RiderWearHouse Motorcycle Jackets, Suits, Clothing, & Gear
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  #33  
Old 19 Sep 2010
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If you like the style of the waxed cotton, you can always have one in leather, I have!
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Last edited by palace15; 13 Feb 2014 at 13:22.
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  #34  
Old 19 Sep 2010
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Nice jacket Dave !

[Lewis Leathers by any chance ?]
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  #35  
Old 19 Sep 2010
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Dave,that is a really nice jacket,the only problem for me is the cost
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  #36  
Old 19 Sep 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caminando View Post
An excellent and thoughtful post, thanks.

The evidence shows that waxed cotton is no good at all for bike riding.

It was designed in the 19th century for fishermen in the North Sea, and to use it in the 21st century when riding is just plain . Even those who like the "old look" admit that it's rubbish.
So the fact it worked in the 19th Century stops it working now?

I wore a Drizabone all last winter and a Belstaff copy over the summer. They are truely waterproof (probably a factor of the collar and cuff design as much as anything) and need a few hours work per year (usual bikers fiddle factor at work here IMHO, too many owners like getting the wax out, which at least makes a change from adjusting their valves twice a week). I've had no problem with grease/marks/smells (use spray on proofing not wax in a tin). I don't find the Belstaff too hot in a UK summer and in a German or Scandanavian winter the Drizabone was a great top layer. I don't limit my thinking on safety to armour (only works after the event), so while this is a factor it doesn't put me off. Certainly for sidecar use the advantges outweigh the problems.

Durability I don't really know about. Last jacket I fell off in was nylon/Goretex and was trashed but did it's job. I'm still using the remains of my last Goretex and nylon jacket for the odd trip to the shops/work. The fact it leaks where the velcro (nasty old 1960's technology) doesn't work or the outer is dirty, or some badly glued on bit (horrible old 1990's technology) has dropped off puts me off 2 year old £400 jackets. My Drizabone was second hand 3 years ago and is still perfect, the Belstaff copy perfect at just over a year (and only cost £99).

For a two month trip round Europe I'd take the wax cotton. For longer and hotter it could be a tougher decision. I think I might go leather and put the cash into decent zips (sorry Cam, I know these are 1920's). It would take a lot to get me back in the Horrible Gherkin shop.

Andy
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  #37  
Old 19 Sep 2010
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Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie View Post
So the fact it worked in the 19th Century stops it working now?

I wore a Drizabone all last winter and a Belstaff copy over the summer. They are truely waterproof (probably a factor of the collar and cuff design as much as anything) and need a few hours work per year (usual bikers fiddle factor at work here IMHO, too many owners like getting the wax out, which at least makes a change from adjusting their valves twice a week). I've had no problem with grease/marks/smells (use spray on proofing not wax in a tin). I don't find the Belstaff too hot in a UK summer and in a German or Scandanavian winter the Drizabone was a great top layer. I don't limit my thinking on safety to armour (only works after the event), so while this is a factor it doesn't put me off. Certainly for sidecar use the advantges outweigh the problems.

Durability I don't really know about. Last jacket I fell off in was nylon/Goretex and was trashed but did it's job. I'm still using the remains of my last Goretex and nylon jacket for the odd trip to the shops/work. The fact it leaks where the velcro (nasty old 1960's technology) doesn't work or the outer is dirty, or some badly glued on bit (horrible old 1990's technology) has dropped off puts me off 2 year old £400 jackets. My Drizabone was second hand 3 years ago and is still perfect, the Belstaff copy perfect at just over a year (and only cost £99).

For a two month trip round Europe I'd take the wax cotton. For longer and hotter it could be a tougher decision. I think I might go leather and put the cash into decent zips (sorry Cam, I know these are 1920's). It would take a lot to get me back in the Horrible Gherkin shop.

Andy
Well, we've had some time since the 19th C to improve materials. Maybe you'd like the kind of armour they used in the 13th C, if you're into early technology; and that would be a choice. Waxed cotton worked just as badly a century ago, but it was the best they had. Sorry, Andy, this is the 21st C.

Even Dod who is a fan of waxed cotton lists a lot of things that are wrong with this material for biking. You don't comment on all that, unfortunately. But if you like such stuff well why not - but that's different from saying it's good. I used waxed cotton for bike and deerstalking and it was clear that others with simple PVC clothing fared much better at a fraction of the cost. My new waxed cotton jacket was ready for the bin after 12 weeks use at deerstalking. The limited waterproofing came with a penalty -the fabric got a stiff as a board and weighed a lot more too. The fabric then developed holes where creases were. That's in addition to the list of other problems for bikers. Then the Hooray Henrys started using it. It seems this fashion has returned, and it can be seen in bars as one post showed.

Just because a product is old doesn't mean it's good, unless nostalgia confuses your opinions. If you don't like zips and don't like velcro etc, then yes waxed cotton has a place. You're right about one thing though - the prices charged for many modern jackets etc is horrific, and a ripoff, especially as many are made cheaply in Asia. £400 for a jacket? Tho' a Belstaff waxed cotton jacket cant be far away from that. Am I wrong in thinking that Drizabone makes those big long coats that reach to your boots? Maybe fine on an outfit, but not solo?

How do you feel about pudding basin helmets?
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  #38  
Old 19 Sep 2010
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Originally Posted by dave ede View Post
If you like the style of the waxed cotton, you can always have one in leather, I have!
Nice jacket Dave - but you must be loaded! Still it should last for years, and in the long run may be good value. I saw this in a catalogue some time back, and wanted one, but the price was too much for me. Like you, I was looking for the style of waxed cotton (especially the TrialMaster) without the antique technology.
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  #39  
Old 19 Sep 2010
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Originally Posted by Caminando View Post
Then the Hooray Henrys started using it. It seems this fashion has returned, and it can be seen in bars as one post showed.
So if we wait a couple of years for wax cotton to drop out of fashion there should be plenty of second hand jackets on ebay for a fair price
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  #40  
Old 19 Sep 2010
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Thanks for the links D! The TrialMaster looks great, tho' the mention of "antique cotton" puts me off. The inclusion of some armour is a step forward too. I was never one for obsessing about safety gear, and this would be fine for me, apart from the material and I have to say, the price.

On back protection; when I read that most biking back injuries are caused by a torsional movement and not by impact, I used a bit of camping mat rather than those bulky, hot standard protectors.
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  #41  
Old 19 Sep 2010
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So if we wait a couple of years for wax cotton to drop out of fashion there should be plenty of second hand jackets on ebay for a fair price
Now you're talking! Spot on Dave.
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  #42  
Old 19 Sep 2010
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Yes Dodge, its Lewis leathers, I had seen the LL advert on the back of a friends M/C mag in the October, and loved this particular jacket, but as said, 'the cost'. Then, I went through all the reasons to justify paying that much, but struggled! It was not until the early January after I had worked many hours over the Christmas and New Year that I decided that it would be 'my' Christmas present to myself!
The Pros I figured; Apart from loss or theft, it will see me out the rest of my days.
Should I lose or gain weight drastically .LL will alter accordingly.
How many £'s have I spent/wasted on Wax/kevlar/cordura etc over the last how many years?
Lewis Leathers service is first class, I did initially have a stitching problem on one of the pockets but after a phone call, they admitted I was not the first with this, and recalled the jacket for re-stitch and rivets added.
The cons; Heavy, and being leather you don't really want too many soakings but has so far not 'leaked'. not yet been used in 'high temps' and not looking forward to that. and whilst after 2years the quality is so good it is really taking time to 'break-in' and you can look like an extra from the Village people
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  #43  
Old 19 Sep 2010
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Lewis Leathers is good stuff.

My brother wears my old Belstaff bike jacket that is 30 yearsold .

Barbour have been making the International jacket [ IN ENGLAND ]for 75 years ,they must be doing something right .

Barbours always look better when they have a few years patina .

I prefer natural material to synthetic and don't mind putting up with a bit of inconvenience [ if reproofing every couple of years can be considered inconvenient]. I have bought 3 textile jackets [First gear ,Santiago and Belstaff Discovery ]in the last few years and been disapointed in all of them ,only one ,the Belstaff , comes close to what I expect from a jacket but even that has too many useless pockets and velcro.A Barbour jacket is cheaper than any of them .
If there is a good ,simple, textile jacket out there [with a waterproof OUTER layer ] ,I'd like to hear about it .

As regards abrasion resistance ,it's obvious that waxed cotton will never be as good as leather .But I do have experience of sliding down the road on my back after coming a cropper at something above 60 mph ,I was wearing a Belstaff and jeans ,the jean's back pocket wore through and the Belstaff had scratch marks ,I guess I was lucky .Personally ,these days, I'm more concerned about the initial contact with terra firma and I'd like to see Barbour make an armoured bike jacket like Belstaff ,I'd buy one for sure .

Maybe my son has the right idea , he wears a tight fitting armoured leather jacket and ,when it rains , wears my Barbour over the top of it .[ no wonder I can never find it !]

Whatever you choose ride safe.
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Last edited by Dodger; 22 Sep 2010 at 03:03.
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  #44  
Old 19 Sep 2010
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,the price seems high but not that expensive [ in Canada ] when you consider it is about the same as the top half of a BMW "clown suit" ,

(Dodge, we all know you hate BMW stuff with a serious vicious passion as your previous posts show. Hey that's OK- but just own up. People who use BMW stuff, (not me,) are not clowns...please? That's not a good thing to say)

I must say I'm a bit surprised that Cammy has such a passionate hatred of waxed cotton jackets

(Dod, I have already told you I had waxed cotton and funnily enough it was the Solway model! It was rubbish IMO. I even used it on the Solway Firth when wildfowling. The same one which fell apart when doing 12 weeks solid deerstalking.)

To give an example ,I have a Barbour Solway that is 20 years old

(well maybe you didnt use it much)
.

Barbours always look better when they have a few years patina .
I used to wear mine at the pub after a day on the farm , happy days !
--The friendly banter , the buxom barmaid , a wholesome pint ,a log fire ,the aroma of pipe tobacco mixing with the pungent country smell of frying shit and cow's afterbith roasting on the back of my Barbour .---


(Now this bit about cows etc is quite right - but nothing to do with m/cycling . It's for farmers and others, but not, please, m/cyclists.)
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  #45  
Old 19 Sep 2010
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Originally Posted by Dodger View Post
...
Barbour have been making the International jacket [ IN ENGLAND ]for 75 years ,they must be doing something right .
...
That, ...or, they are just out of new ideas

P.S.: Love my clown suit
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