Extreme cold weather clothing

[eurasiaoverland]

Hi

Early next year I'm driving across the very coldest parts of Russia. I'm looking for advice from someone who is experienced in extreme cold, i.e. -40 or below, so Polar expeditions, or people living / working in northern Russia or Canada / Greenland.

I have my outer layers (high altitude climbing gear) and boots (Baffin -100).

I'm looking for advice mostly on glove and hats / balaclavas, and base layer.

For gloves, I want to layer. I have large down-filled mitts which should be fine for driving, but useless for taking photos, filling the car up etc. So my thought was to get some glove liners or thin insulated gloves. Can anyone recommend something? Is neoprene a good idea, or is that more for sailing? What's the warmest material which is insulating, yet thin enough so I don't lose too much dexterity?

Similarly, a hat / balaclava. My parka has a huge hood which will necessitate a fairly thin hat or balaclava. Is fleece a good choice?

For a base layer, I am looking at merino wool; I assume there are grades of various qualities, can anyone recommend a good brand? Or just go for any branded merino wool products?

My usual problem in cold climates is my lower back. I'm thin but relatively tall, so clothes are invariably either too baggy or a bit too short. I've got down salopettes as an outer layer, which come right up my back, but are there any products which specifically protect your lower back / kidneys? Something like a gaiter?

Thanks for any help,

EO

[*Touring Ted*]

Originally Posted by eurasiaoverland

Hi

Early next year I'm driving across the very coldest parts of Russia. I'm looking for advice from someone who is experienced in extreme cold, i.e. -40 or below, so Polar expeditions, or people living / working in northern Russia or Canada / Greenland.

I have my outer layers (high altitude climbing gear) and boots (Baffin -100).

I'm looking for advice mostly on glove and hats / balaclavas, and base layer.

For gloves, I want to layer. I have large down-filled mitts which should be fine for driving, but useless for taking photos, filling the car up etc. So my thought was to get some glove liners or thin insulated gloves. Can anyone recommend something? Is neoprene a good idea, or is that more for sailing? What's the warmest material which is insulating, yet thin enough so I don't lose too much dexterity?

Similarly, a hat / balaclava. My parka has a huge hood which will necessitate a fairly thin hat or balaclava. Is fleece a good choice?

For a base layer, I am looking at merino wool; I assume there are grades of various qualities, can anyone recommend a good brand? Or just go for any branded merino wool products?

My usual problem in cold climates is my lower back. I'm thin but relatively tall, so clothes are invariably either too baggy or a bit too short. I've got down salopettes as an outer layer, which come right up my back, but are there any products which specifically protect your lower back / kidneys? Something like a gaiter?

Thanks for any help,

EO

Merino wool. Nature's miracle.

Sent from my G7-L01 using Tapatalk

[backofbeyond]

Originally Posted by eurasiaoverland

Hi


My usual problem in cold climates is my lower back. I'm thin but relatively tall, so clothes are invariably either too baggy or a bit too short. I've got down salopettes as an outer layer, which come right up my back, but are there any products which specifically protect your lower back / kidneys? Something like a gaiter?

Thanks for any help,

EO

I presume you've looked at regular kidney belts. If not then Google will show you as many as you'd want to see. Many bikers use them for lower back support but they do keep the area warm as a byproduct. You don't need a kind of Victorian whalebone ex Dakar version (you won't be able to bend over), just something padded, elastic and velcro fastened. Mine was a few pounds in Lidl many years ago and still works fine. I only ever feel the need to use it these days when the wind chill temp is heading south of -10C

Far be it for me to offer advice on surviving in -40C temps but when it comes to a choice of the "warmest material which is insulating, yet thin enough so I don't lose too much dexterity", might I suggest fat. As you're "thin but relatively tall" an extra few kilos gained through burgers, pies and a good Christmas might keep Jack Frost's freezy fingers at bay a little longer. There is some (rudimentary) scientific evidence for this - https://www.popsci.com/article/scien...er-thin-people but whether it would make much difference in practice I've no idea.

[eurasiaoverland]

Originally Posted by backofbeyond

I presume you've looked at regular kidney belts. If not then Google will show you as many as you'd want to see. Many bikers use them for lower back support but they do keep the area warm as a byproduct. You don't need a kind of Victorian whalebone ex Dakar version (you won't be able to bend over), just something padded, elastic and velcro fastened. Mine was a few pounds in Lidl many years ago and still works fine. I only ever feel the need to use it these days when the wind chill temp is heading south of -10C

Far be it for me to offer advice on surviving in -40C temps but when it comes to a choice of the "warmest material which is insulating, yet thin enough so I don't lose too much dexterity", might I suggest fat. As you're "thin but relatively tall" an extra few kilos gained through burgers, pies and a good Christmas might keep Jack Frost's freezy fingers at bay a little longer. There is some (rudimentary) scientific evidence for this - https://www.popsci.com/article/scien...er-thin-people but whether it would make much difference in practice I've no idea.

Thanks for the advice, I'll search for kidney belts.

As for gaining weight, that is precisely my plan, though it is not something I can do easily (going to a gym is out of the question). I will keep at it nonetheless!

Cheers

EO

[mollydog]

Are you walking or driving across Russia? My advice? Stay in the frickin truck!

If you like to camp, then since you've got a truck, bring Li-Iron batteries and plug them into heated gear when in your tent ... or be smart enough to bring a truck/Van you can sleep in.

It's so easy. Next day, charge them back up when on the move from truck elec. system. It's basic.

I spent 2 years in Antarctica with US Antarctic program. I did field party support on several occasions. Temps were only minus 20F. we used cots in the tent to stay UP off the ice.

We also got Crevasse rescue training from Brit Antarctic Survey guys. Luckily never needed to try it out.

If you plan to hike for days away from your truck ... we'll, you better leave that truck someplace SAFE ... or it will be stolen and stripped in 10 minutes.

So, stay in or near your truck ... and when you want a real adventure ... get on a bike and try it.

[eurasiaoverland]

Did you read my original post? I was asking about clothing.

Originally Posted by mollydog

Are you walking or driving across Russia? My advice? Stay in the frickin truck!

Understand that it is necessary to leave the vehicle to, for example, fill it with fuel, enter a nearby building, relieve one's self and many, many other activities. Also to have a chance of surviving until another vehicle comes past in case of getting stuck or breaking down

If you like to camp, then since you've got a truck, bring Li-Iron batteries and plug them into heated gear when in your tent ... or be smart enough to bring a truck/Van you can sleep in.

I'm one step ahead of you here, I have a heated sleeping area.

It's so easy. Next day, charge them back up when on the move from truck elec. system. It's basic.

I spent 2 years in Antarctica with US Antarctic program. I did field party support on several occasions. Temps were only minus 20F. we used cots in the tent to stay UP off the ice.

We also got Crevasse rescue training from Brit Antarctic Survey guys. Luckily never needed to try it out.

If you plan to hike for days away from your truck ... we'll, you better leave that truck someplace SAFE ... or it will be stolen and stripped in 10 minutes.

I doubt there are many people lurking in the wilderness in -40ºC or less waiting for someone to park up their car and go off hiking into the frozen darkness. Frankly I'd be far more concerned that the engine wouldn't start until spring due to the cold.

So, stay in or near your truck ... and when you want a real adventure ... get on a bike and try it.

Thank you for your expert advice. I'll stick to a heated vehicle.

[mollydog]

Originally Posted by eurasiaoverland

Did you read my original post? I was asking about clothing.

I get that.

Originally Posted by eurasiaoverland

Thank you for your expert advice. I'll stick to a heated vehicle.

Of course you will ... please keep your fridge well stocked with good Beer to share with bike riders!

[Gipper]

Hi EO,

I worked on a Gondola rescue team here in Canada for 10+ years, outside in all weathers and down to below -40 C and lived in Banff Alberta for 10 years before moving to the coast.

The best clothing to wear for driving a vehicle is Icebreaker Merino wool layers - a couple of thinner long sleeve layers and one a little thicker with a wool jumper/sweater over the top with a down jacket and lined pants with merino long johns underneath.

Most Canadian workers/drivers/riggers who have to work outside in the winter wear these Helly Hansen coveralls:

https://www.marks.com/en/helly-hanse...Bcolor%5D=NAVY

We also used these on the Gondola rescue team, they are awesome when you are working outside and are very hard wearing and durable, they do not snag or rip like a down jacket. They are fleece lined inside and to be honest were too warm to wear unless the temperature was below about -5 C. For me they are too warm to wear whilst driving with a heater on and a little awkward inside a vehicle. But if you have to change a tyre or fit/remove snow chains, work outside they are perfect.

Gloves and hats: Id just try a few different ones, they are kind of a personal thing, some windproof/waterproof gloves and some thinner inner liners for dexterity, make sure they are windproof - the wind is what makes life difficult in the colder temperatures and make sure you have a few spare pairs of gloves for when you take one off and leave it somewhere.
For a Balaclava, make sure it covers your nose and lips and comes high up on you face under your eyes, good ones will have a small opening for you to breath out of your nostrils and thinner material over your mouth. At -45 C ish with some windchill you can get frost nip on exposed skin in a few minutes. Also a Polar Buff is a good piece of kit - lots of motorcyclists have a 'Buff' or something similar:

https://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/p/bu...tml?colour=122

Outdoor research and Extremities make good quality gloves, balaclavas and hats IME. I would also take some clear or yellow tinted goggles in case you have to be out in the wind with snow blowing around.

If you need any more info let me know, hope that is helpful

[eurasiaoverland]

Great! This is exactly the response I was looking for and a big help in my preparation, thank you very much.

Those HH coveralls look good.. if space was no issue then I'd like to take a set along, however given that I already have my down outer layers, I can't quite justify them, even though they are much tougher in the event that I need to do some work on the car (hard to imagine being able to do much in -40 though!).

Now off to buy base layers, hat and gloves.

EO

Originally Posted by Gipper

Hi EO,

I worked on a Gondola rescue team here in Canada for 10+ years, outside in all weathers and down to below -40 C and lived in Banff Alberta for 10 years before moving to the coast.

The best clothing to wear for driving a vehicle is Icebreaker Merino wool layers - a couple of thinner long sleeve layers and one a little thicker with a wool jumper/sweater over the top with a down jacket and lined pants with merino long johns underneath.

Most Canadian workers/drivers/riggers who have to work outside in the winter wear these Helly Hansen coveralls:

https://www.marks.com/en/helly-hanse...Bcolor%5D=NAVY

We also used these on the Gondola rescue team, they are awesome when you are working outside and are very hard wearing and durable, they do not snag or rip like a down jacket. They are fleece lined inside and to be honest were too warm to wear unless the temperature was below about -5 C. For me they are too warm to wear whilst driving with a heater on and a little awkward inside a vehicle. But if you have to change a tyre or fit/remove snow chains, work outside they are perfect.

Gloves and hats: Id just try a few different ones, they are kind of a personal thing, some windproof/waterproof gloves and some thinner inner liners for dexterity, make sure they are windproof - the wind is what makes life difficult in the colder temperatures and make sure you have a few spare pairs of gloves for when you take one off and leave it somewhere.
For a Balaclava, make sure it covers your nose and lips and comes high up on you face under your eyes, good ones will have a small opening for you to breath out of your nostrils and thinner material over your mouth. At -45 C ish with some windchill you can get frost nip on exposed skin in a few minutes. Also a Polar Buff is a good piece of kit - lots of motorcyclists have a 'Buff' or something similar:

https://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/p/bu...tml?colour=122

Outdoor research and Extremities make good quality gloves, balaclavas and hats IME. I would also take some clear or yellow tinted goggles in case you have to be out in the wind with snow blowing around.

If you need any more info let me know, hope that is helpful

[Gipper]

No problem

if you are wearing down jackets/trousers then id recommend carrying some of this repair tape or something similar:

https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5008-815/Tenacious-Tape

The only issues ive had with down are snagging it and ripping the odd baffle open, at which point the feathers come out and you get a cold spot on the garment or sleeping bag. This tape is awesome at sealing up the tear, the clear one is best as it barely shows on the garment.

while we are discussing warmth, I also wear merino wool underwear, Icebreaker stuff is good and I also wear SAXX which are expensive, but last for years and are super comfy to wear:

https://www.saxxunderwear.ca/products/sxbb56f_blk-1

down to -40 C is not too bad really, the air is pretty dry so you can still do a lot as long as you keep moving and you are wearing good gear, when it gets around -50 C even a slight breeze is not much fun, your eye lashes start to ice up!

[AnTyx]

Originally Posted by eurasiaoverland

Similarly, a hat / balaclava. My parka has a huge hood which will necessitate a fairly thin hat or balaclava. Is fleece a good choice?

The best thing would be a Russian ushanka, a fur hat with ear sleeves that you can either tie up or down. (I've got a Kangol fake-fur version that's gotten me through -30C with flying colors.)

The thing about fleece, it's not a windstopper. I'd suggest a hooded version of a merino baselayer, put the hood up, then a windstopper/thinsulate-backed wool hat on top, then the parka hood on top of that. If you can't get an ushanka.

For gloves, have a look at cross-country skiing gloves. I've got a pair of very thin ones I got on sale for five euros, I wear them as liners under my moto gloves, and they're great for that. Some kind of tech fabric. Also, consider the mittens with fold-down finger-flaps - I've seen some very warm versions indeed in fishing/hunting supply shops.

[tohellnback]

I spent many years in the Canadian High Arctic and Canada Goose chest high down snow pants are my answer, Nothing beats CG and they are expensive
Acton Chimo boots are also top of the line they are like a Mukluc, fabric and the sole is rubber but good luck finding them
Baffin bought them out years ago and shut them down the Canadian military had these boot as standard issue for many years they have a double merino wool liner and a wool insole with a nylon mesh to wic away the sweat from your feet
I spent a lot of time in the arctic elements 12 hour days on my feet working and at the end of the day the bottom of my chimos were filled with ice and my feet were warm
Don't believe the thermal rating on bootsI have seen it all, everybody sweats different more or less and it is the killer of time in cold weather if you have cold feet you are going to be useless in a hurry and there is nothing worse

[DocShoe]

Hi, EO,
Are you going by Bike or by Car? When sitting behind the handlebars, theres a Book from a German, Martin Franitzka, who rode a Sidecar to Murmansk in Winter. When going by Car, sleeping in the, Moisture is the biggest Problem, as anything becomes soaking wet after a few days. Try to dry anything as often as possible. Same with the Baffin Boots, take a second layer and change every day. Try to put a Newaspaper between inner and outer and lite your campfire with zhat stinking stuff every evening. Helly Hansen Polarfleece is warm, but starts to stink after a week permanently, i recommen swedish Company Ulfrottee, sold under the Label Woolpower in Germany. Avaible in different thickness from 100 - 600, Socks up to 800. best to wear a 100 and a 400 dress an 200 and 600 Socks. Choose the size in a fluffy style, as the Air between the layers insulates. In the End, nothing beats Canada Goose Equipment, apart from the Price.

Greetings from sunny downunder!

[555amg]

Hi, I'm from Russia, 10 years has lived in Murmansk for many years the Central part of Russia. About the Russian cold, I know not by hearsay)))

In different regions of Russia in the North the cold is different. For example, in Murmansk because of the high humidity from the Gulf stream cold is transferred easier. In the Central region - Vorkuta, Norilsk, Salekhard-frosts are very severe, "cracking" do not breathe! for 5 minutes you can get frostbite! North-Eastern Siberia, Yakutsk, Novy Urengoy is the most ferocious and dangerous cold!

When choosing equipment the most important thing to observe 2 rules:
1) the Equipment must be warm, preferably fur.
2) the Outfit should not be purged!

All Russians who live in the North, mostly to escape from the frosts and winds - coats (for Rus - тулуп). Outside-skin, within fur.

Now on sale a lot of offers for refuge from the cold. I would consider 2 layers: The first warm genuine leather and fur - for body heat, the second layer is synthetic-protection from external wind. Universal proposals there is no! It all depends on your ability to tolerate cold!

Pay special attention to the legs! The legs are the weakest point... Pick up warm windproof boots on a good warm sole!


For hand protection use "gloves on the steering wheel" + two-toed warm gloves.



Here is an example of Russian motorcyclist equipment for cold weather:












Here is the address guys who are now going North, try to contact them on Facebook, they will tell you exactly what you need for the road. Godspeed! )))

https://www.facebook.com/pikalo.alexander

[555amg]

)))