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-   -   Flip front helmets - ??? (http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/camping-equipment-and-all-clothing/flip-front-helmets-57897)

Endurodude 26 Jun 2011 19:44

Flip front helmets - ???
 
Having just come back from Lumb Farm, and having heard a number of different people say that flip top helmets make you appear far friendlier (a bonus at borders), I thought I might buy one. I quite like the Shoei Multitech (the price doesn't worry me too much, especially as I'll possibly sell my old one on ebay); does anyone have any other suggestions?

Thanks in advance. ?c?

*Touring Ted* 26 Jun 2011 19:49

You'l be taking your helmet off at borders so I don't understand that one.. It's just being rude to leave it on and probably way too hot way !!

It is handy to flip it up at petrol stations or talking to your riding buddies etc.

There will always be a compromise in the strength of the front section as opened to a one piece closed face helmet though, no matter what anyone else tells you... It's impossible for a moving part/latch to be as strong as one solid bar.

DougieB 26 Jun 2011 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Touring Ted* (Post 340457)
There will always be a compromise in the strength of the front section as opened to a one piece closed face helmet though, no matter what anyone else tells you... It's impossible for a moving part/latch to be as strong as one solid bar.

it's only impossible if they are made of the same thickness and type of materials. however, it's quite possible for both types to far exceed any sort of impact you'll come across by riding a sub 150 mph motorbike.

in addition, the moving part/latch is not taking any impact, or in the direction of any stresses.

it's just rumour and myth that a flip-front is not as strong as a full bucket-type; for any type of motorcycling incident that we are likely to experience while travelling.

the major downside with them is that you often ride with it 'up', because it feels better. when doing this you just have to remember not to crash.

Tony P 26 Jun 2011 20:38

An open face helmet is far less intimidating to anyone you talk to than a full face one, be it Officials, Fuel stations and people in general. Even more intimidating can be some flip front helmets by adding a protuberance several inches above your head.
Less intimidating = better response and assistance.

I use a BMW System 5 helmet and removed the chin guard section and put on the side 'trim' bits, once I had done the long days/weeks of 'main road' sections. But the visor only really covered my eyes leaving the rest of my face exposed to Colebatch's dirt and dust!

Even better, the BMW dealer in Krasnoyarsk had a deeper visor that covered the entire face. I've not seen it in other counrties. It worked fine for over 3 months, then I put the chin guard piece back on for the return to civilisation - and a real need for safety!

*Touring Ted* 26 Jun 2011 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougieB (Post 340458)
it's only impossible if they are made of the same thickness and type of materials. however, it's quite possible for both types to far exceed any sort of impact you'll come across by riding a sub 150 mph motorbike.

in addition, the moving part/latch is not taking any impact, or in the direction of any stresses.

it's just rumour and myth that a flip-front is not as strong as a full bucket-type; for any type of motorcycling incident that we are likely to experience while travelling.

the major downside with them is that you often ride with it 'up', because it feels better. when doing this you just have to remember not to crash.

There's a million variables in any crash so odds are pretty incalculable..Speed, type of riding doesn't really come into it.. You can get hit by a car sitting at the lights on a scooter... There isn't an engineer in the world that will tell you a break in the structure is as strong as a solid item..

Yes, there are LOTS of materials, designs etc but it's no myth and no helmet manufacturer will put that it's "as strong" in writing, or you could be sure they would market it that way...

Anyway, going :offtopic: here !!


Sorry :(

DougieB 26 Jun 2011 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Touring Ted* (Post 340462)
Yes, there are LOTS of materials, designs etc but it's no myth and no helmet manufacturer will put that it's "as strong" in writing, or you could be sure they would market it that way...

yeah, they are though. flip-ups are the same 'safety' spec as full-facers. the shoei multitech (the lid in question) is tested in the closed position and gets the gold standard. exactly the same standard as your full face lid. the multitech is not gold standard rated when in the 'up' position.

who cares what manufacturers put in writing ? manufacturers are hardly organisations to be believed.. it's definitely a myth that flip-ups are less protective than full-facers in a crash. as you say, that's such a blanket statement so as to be pointless. so why say it ?

if you're going to go with 'what people say', then why do UK cops (known for their love of security standards) use flip-up lids; if they are so poor ?

as I say, the only measurement we have are the standards that helmets are put through. flip-ups (in the closed position) and full-facers meet the same standards.

absolutely, technically, a flip-up chin bar is not as strong as a full-face chin bar (what about the rest of the lid ?), taken to an absurd limit. but, it's definitely more than strong enough for you and me.

djorob 26 Jun 2011 22:18

Quote:
it's just rumour and myth that a flip-front is not as strong as a full bucket-type; for any type of motorcycling incident that we are likely to experience while travelling.

I know a paramedic who would seriously disagree with you there!

Quote:
if you're going to go with 'what people say', then why do UK cops (known for their love of security standards) use flip-up lids; if they are so poor ?

Police wear them so they don't have to keep taking off their lid when talking to motorists.

Quote:
as I say, the only measurement we have are the standards that helmets are put through. flip-ups (in the closed position) and full-facers meet the same standards.

Currently, the DOT standard does not require chin bar testing.


Despite this, I've worn em for years.
Dave.

DougieB 26 Jun 2011 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by djorob (Post 340471)
I know a paramedic who would seriously disagree with you there!

yeah, we all know a paramedic with horror stories. I know one that has horror stories about alcohol consumption, but I still drink.

I just think it's got to be put into perspective. Fine if some people are a bit paranoid about safety and won't use a flip-up for personal reasons. but, come on, the benefits far outweigh the risks for most of us mere mortals.

gixxer.rob 27 Jun 2011 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougieB (Post 340473)
yeah, we all know a paramedic with horror stories. I just think it's got to be put into perspective. Fine if some people are a bit paranoid about safety and won't use a flip-up for personal reasons. but, come on, the benefits far outweigh the risks for most of us mere mortals.

Personally and thats all I can speak of/from, I would not wear one. Much like others have said I fail to see how they could be as strong or as durable in a crash.
  • I probably would listen more to the people that make helmets rather than standards results for a number or reasons.
  • Standards do change and in the most case only get tougher.
  • Helmet A & B both pass but does that mean they both passed by the same amount and just as safe. Some helmets pass and others far exceed the "standard" during testing.
I would not wear one because I am about reducing the possibilities for injury and the "benefits" that they may bring don't outweigh that for me.

*Touring Ted* 27 Jun 2011 06:54

I was only talking about the chin bar...... Not the rest of the lid !!

Now I'm sure that a chin bar on a £500 flip helmet is as good or even better than on a £60 "one piece" helmet, but once you get into quality lids, that's simply not the case...

I never said don't buy one or don't wear one.. Just that it's something to be considered.

The chances of it making a difference are of course, impossible to calculate but if I'm flying over the front of my handlebars after hitting a car (like I have done), I'd prefer my chin to protected by a solid steel bar rather than a couple of plastic clips or a few 6mm screws.

You'l never see any racer in street biking/MX/Enduro wearing a flip ( they could talk to the camera men and their crew easier)... The only exception is that the "Trails" guys wear open face but they only hop up and down sewer pipes !

Personal preference isn't it ! Anyway, this isn't what the OP was asking ! Someone advise him on a nice flip lid :smartass:

Threewheelbonnie 27 Jun 2011 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Touring Ted* (Post 340504)
Now I'm sure that a chin bar on a £500 flip helmet is as good or even better than on a £60 "one piece" helmet, but once you get into quality lids, that's simply not the case...

Why would you think that? Twenty years in engineering sales here, 15 of them in automotive stuff. Price and cost are completely unrelated. The £60 lid is £60 because the fine for not wearing one in Italy is close to that price and there isn't really that much else going for that brand. The £500 one includes some extra costs related to graphics and advertising but after that it's simply that the market associates price with safety and branding.

The only fact is that both passed the same very basic test which proves they won't make a crash worse. Beyond that there is no evidence.

Andy

gixxer.rob 27 Jun 2011 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie (Post 340507)
The £500 one includes some extra costs related to graphics and advertising but after that it's simply that the market associates price with safety and branding. The only fact is that both passed the same very basic test which proves they won't make a crash worse. Beyond that there is no evidence.Andy

I am not to sure about that. I think there is a huge difference between a Aldi special and a top of the line Shoei or Arai. As I said before some "pass" a test and other far exceed a test. That (although i don't agree with all their findings) was shown in the helmet tests in the UK in the last couple of years. Sharp tests ? can't remember the name..

dave ett 27 Jun 2011 08:03

BACK ON BLOODY TRACK!!!

I have a Nolan N103 flip front helmet, and recommend it to anyone who isn't on a sports bike. The only reason I say it's not good for those is that the top of the visor opening is a little too low, and when I crane my neck to the position required on my sports bike, I can't see far enough up the road...

So, for everything else I think it's perfect.

When the sun come out the internal visor flips down, so no need to wear sunglasses unless its mega bright.

On fast road sections and in the rain you have the front down so you get full wind / rain protection.

Off road you flip the front up and have a totally clear view of the road ahead / your bike - not even a chin bar in the way.

It has a pinlock visor, so absolutely doesn't mist up.

It has speaker cut-outs moulded in so fitting an auto-com is easy. It even has provision for Nolan's Bluetooth headset system (if you justify the cost).

Only two drawbacks in my opinion are:

1. The weight - it is slightly heavier than a similar full face since the hinge adds weight.

2. It's a bit noisier than a full face because the hinge mechanism add width.

A final plus for the Nolan in particular though, is the design of the hinge: it uses a 'rotating cam' design, which means the chinbar ends up very snug to the top of the helmet, not waving 6 inches above in the breeze once it's opened.

PERSONALLY, I rate it above the Multitech since it is cheaper, has an internal visor, and the clever hinge design.




Any one else got endorements of their flip fronts? (And not you opinion of whether they're safe or not!!)

gixxer.rob 27 Jun 2011 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave ett (Post 340513)
BACK ON BLOODY TRACK!!!
Any one else got endorements of their flip fronts? (And not you opinion of whether they're safe or not!!)

:stormy:

Threewheelbonnie 27 Jun 2011 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave ett (Post 340513)
BACK ON BLOODY TRACK!!!





Any one else got endorements of their flip fronts? (And not you opinion of whether they're safe or not!!)

:taz:

Shuberth Concept: Overweight, doesn't age well (linings worn through), overpriced.

Roof Boxer: Not a true flip front, just a styled visor on an open face. Plastic and press stud fasteners fail.

+1 on the Nolan my dad rates his.

Andy


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