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  #1  
Old 22 Oct 2010
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Q-Tech Experience?

I'm thinking of double plugging my '89 R100GS for the usual benefits associated with that (easier starting, cleaner running, ability to run higher compression ratio). The Q-Tech kit seems like a great solution since they modify the ignition advance in the "bean can". That sounds like the trickiest part of the whole switchover. Does anyone have experience with the Q-Tech kit? Q-Tech Homepage and click to Zundung for the 2-valve boxer, item 123. 500 euro seems a reasonable price for a complete kit that I could conceivably install myself.

I've also heard that Rick at Motorrad Elektrik has come out with an all electronic ignition advance unit. Motorrad Elektrik Replacement Starters Airheads 1977-1995 Call now! 256-442-8886 He says that the dual plug version will be in stock by the end of the month. That also sounds like pretty nifty idea. Any experience with this Alpha Ignition system or is it just too new?

When I contacted Siebenrock (OK, Eurotech, the importer in the States) about their 1000 cc upgrade kit and asked if the 9.5 compression ratio could run on regular fuel I got the response that it would run fine with 91 octane and the occasional fuel additive. (In North America 87 is "regular" and 91 is "premium").

OK, so it needs Premium and an additive? That doesn't sound world travel capable to me. So, will dual plugging allow the Siebenrock kit to run on poor fuel? I've heard nothing but good things about the Siebenrock kit with its lighter, balanced pistons and a little extra power/torque so this is something that piques my interest. At the same time on our next trip (from Europe to Australia) we might encounter situations where low octane fuel is all that is available as happened when we rode through Africa.
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'84 R100RT 141,000 km (Dad's!)
'89 R100GS 250,000 km (and ready for another continent)
'07 R1200GS Adventure 100,000 km (just finished Circumnavigating Asia)


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  #2  
Old 22 Oct 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekke View Post
When I contacted Siebenrock (OK, Eurotech, the importer in the States) about their 1000 cc upgrade kit and asked if the 9.5 compression ratio could run on regular fuel I got the response that it would run fine with 91 octane and the occasional fuel additive. (In North America 87 is "regular" and 91 is "premium").

OK, so it needs Premium and an additive? That doesn't sound world travel capable to me.
There is no easy answer here. I've used the Siebenrock upgrade kit for 60kkm and I have not had any big problems with pinging, I've had some tendencies on bad fuel but as long as I've increased the revs easily it has been okay. So for me this hasn't been an issue, but I've heard about the opposite.
I've also heard that 91 octane is minimum and I think that's 91RON which will be similar to 87AKI (check: Octane rating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) 91AKI will then be 95RON and if that's true you should be okay.
Some modifications to the cylinder head will also decrease pinging, but I have not tested it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekke View Post
I'm thinking of double plugging my '89 R100GS for the usual benefits associated with that (easier starting, cleaner running, ability to run higher compression ratio). The Q-Tech kit seems like a great solution since they modify the ignition advance in the "bean can". That sounds like the trickiest part of the whole switchover. Does anyone have experience with the Q-Tech kit? Q-Tech Homepage and click to Zundung for the 2-valve boxer, item 123. 500 euro seems a reasonable price for a complete kit that I could conceivably install myself.
I installed Q-tech ignition a few weeks ago on my "new" engine but sadly I've only tested it for 150 km (it's snow up here). The kit seems to work as intended but I've done a lot of modifications to the engine so it's hard to tell...
The bike starts easily at 0°c (even if the choke only works on one side, have to fix that), and it runs like a train.

My kit was not bought from Q-tech directly but it uses the Q-tech ICU and the same way of modifying the bean can. Q-tech is a nice company with a good reputation and most German tuners use their kits. They do also have a more sophisticated kit but I don't think it's listed on their webpage. I have bought some other parts from them and have always been happy.

To modify the bean can is difficult and IMHO this is one of the reasons why people have different experiences about dual ignition - they all have different ignition-curves.
I would say that unless you have a jig where you can test-run the bean-can it's close to impossible to get a decent result. Yes, a few have managed it but many have failed. Q-tech have the knowledge and the equipment, they will modify your bean-can so it works.

There are other more modern systems but frankly I like the simplicity of this system and the ICU can be replaced by the original (or even some car-ICUs) in an emergency. The bean can itself rarely fails and you can also get a spare hall-sensor from Q-tech.
Some of the other systems place electronic components behind the alternator-cover but I don't think that is a good solution. Heat and vibration is the best way to kill electronic components.

The coil-setup on my bike is a bit different but here is how it looks:



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Old 22 Oct 2010
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Siebenrocks kit and converted heads (for unleaded petrol) works very nice -


Dual ignition allows for poor petrol.

Silent Hektik and Omega Ignition have very good reputation - far better than using a converted ITU.

You may consider an alternator up-grader - 280W is not much... and charging starts at about 3000rpm (which is far above city traffic revs...).
BMW Motorcycle Aftermarket Alternators

All you really need to do is convert the heads to allow for un-leaded petrol.
If you know that you will be driving in areas with poor petrol; 8.2:1 pistons - polish the surface inside the combustion chamber and grind down all sharp edges and you should be able to run at 91 octane with single plugging.


The Egyptian Police did this:
R80 with R100 heads, 44/40 valves, Bing 40 carbs.
=> I think this will be about 7:1 which will allow for bad petrol of low quallity.


For full conversion with all its ups and downs:
- Alibaba have given you a very detailed description -
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Old 22 Oct 2010
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Great information (as always) Ali Baba. I think Q-Tech also puts the second coil in the same location you've got it. They're claiming their new coils are a bit smaller and will easily fit.

I too like the idea of having Q-Tech doing the changes to the ignition advance, they've got a good history of doing it correctly.

I would imagine that the Siebenrock 9.5 to 1 kit would work just fine with dual plugging even on lower octane fuel.
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'84 R100RT 141,000 km (Dad's!)
'89 R100GS 250,000 km (and ready for another continent)
'07 R1200GS Adventure 100,000 km (just finished Circumnavigating Asia)


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Old 22 Oct 2010
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Thanks Albert, I guess we were writing at the same time.

I upgraded to Motorrad Elektrik's Omega kit with 400W a few years ago before our Africa trip and it is working perfectly.

I had no troubles with the current 8.2 compression going through Egypt, Sudan et cetera. I'm glad you concur that 9.5 will work with dual plugging. I think I'll go to dual plugging first and then to the higher compression pistons that way I might be able to isolate any improvements. Just like Ali Baba though, the snow is starting to fly here too and I'll probably have to do winter testing with the dual plug and then the Siebenrock kit since I would like to have the bike ready for the next trip by spring of 2011.
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Ekke Kok

'84 R100RT 141,000 km (Dad's!)
'89 R100GS 250,000 km (and ready for another continent)
'07 R1200GS Adventure 100,000 km (just finished Circumnavigating Asia)


www.ekke-audrey.ca
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Old 22 Oct 2010
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Have you been intouch with:
1990 R100G/S Project
Stephen have already done what you are asking about, and he is in Canada. No point in re-inventing the wheel -
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Old 23 Oct 2010
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Thanks Albert

Thanks for the link. I've seen some of Stephen Botcher's work but haven't talked to him. That Franken Beemer looks like quite the bit of work. Very nice. But it seems to me that going with the Q-Tech kit and the Siebenrock kit would be less "reinvention" and hopefully just plug-and-play.

I'll have a look at the Silent Hektik and Omega Ignition to see what their advantages are. As Ali Baba has mentioned before it is the ignition timing that can be the most troublesome in dual plugging and Q-Tech seems to have a good solid history of making it work.

Ekke

Quote:
Originally Posted by dc lindberg View Post
Have you been intouch with:
1990 R100G/S Project
Stephen have already done what you are asking about, and he is in Canada. No point in re-inventing the wheel -
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Ekke Kok

'84 R100RT 141,000 km (Dad's!)
'89 R100GS 250,000 km (and ready for another continent)
'07 R1200GS Adventure 100,000 km (just finished Circumnavigating Asia)


www.ekke-audrey.ca
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Old 23 Oct 2010
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Hi Ekke,

Well thought through motiovation.

If the budget allows for it - "plug and play" is a smart way to do it.

- heads converted for dual plugging and un-leaded petrol
- Siebenrock 1000cc kit
- Q-tech ingnition system
- a more powerfull alternator
Guess that is an investment of about 2600-2800EU in material only?

Have a look at the rocker system when you are at it. Motoren Israel have some neat options.

I recommend installing lash-caps from VW tuning; "valvestem butt and rocker-arm tip protections". Cost is very low, even top racing quallity is affordable.
Dalhems
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Old 23 Oct 2010
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The kit from Q-tech is 496€ (all inclusive), the Siebenrock upgrade kit is less then 900€ (incl all gaskets and new pushrod-tubes).
It would be a good idea to inspect/rebuild the heads, if you like I'm sure Q-tech can do it when they prepare them for dual-plugging. The heads can be used for un-leaded without modifications.

It's all plug & play
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