Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Technical, Bike forums > BMW Tech

BMW Tech BMW Tech Forum - For Questions specific and of interest to BMW riders only. Questions comparing which bike is best etc go in the "Which Bike" forum.
Contact Overland Solutions for all your custom modifications and setup for overland travel.

7 Litre Camel Tank Lets You Explore More, Click to Find out More!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 26 Apr 2004
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Gwynedd, Wales, UK
Posts: 252
Painting the frame

The paintwork on the frame of my '82 RS is in a right state. As I'm going to give it a major overhaul, g'box bearings, timing chain & tensioner, big-ends & mains, valve seats, new discs and brake lines, and complete exhaust system, I'm thinking I might as well paint the brute as well. (The last time I added all that up it came to about a grand, I stopped counting after that.) Anyway, what paint / primer should I use, both for the frame and for the alloy forks? Also, does anybody know if BMW used any fancy steel for the frame: the reason I ask is that because they use high tensile steel in some aircraft you can't use things like Kurust, Rust Eater & Jenolite to cure surface rust as the phosphate compounds formed have the effect of locally hardening the steel, a Bad Thing apparently. So it has to be removed mechanically, which I assume means it has to be scraped/emery clothed/filed off. As I'll have plenty of other work to be getting on with Jenolite etc. seems to be the quickest way by far, I don't need perfection, so the question is, can anyone tell me if it's OK to use it?
Thanks to everybody for their responses to my previous questions, they were all most helpful.
John

------------------
Johnefyn
__________________
Johnef
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 26 Apr 2004
LordStig's Avatar
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Fife, Scotland
Posts: 96
I'd go for several coats of Hammerite, but it takes time to cure between coats, and it isn't cheap. It supposedly doesn't need a primer, but I'd go for a zinc or self-etch primer. Of course that would be a problem if the steel is HT, and what you've heard about HT is true. I think it may be; from memory, engineering grade HT bolts can't be exposed to acids, but that's because the stressed threads might fail. I really doubt this would be a problem on a frame, though. What would happen with combustion acids in HT frames that carry oil?

The obvious and best alternative (although expensive) if you have a totally dismantled frame would be a good bead blasting and powder coating. Considering your costs already, I'd paint it myself if I were you. But then, why ruin the ship for want of a bit of tar (or paint)? Having restored a couple of old Triumph sports cars, once rust manifests itself it has to be totally removed and properly sealed to stand a chance of stopping it from returning. Good luck!

Stig
__________________
Tall men see everyone else's bald patch but their own.......
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 26 Apr 2004
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Cairo, Egypt
Posts: 456
As Stig proposed, I completely stripped, sand blasted and powder coated my Tenere and it turned out great. I highly recommend it but keep in mind it’s limitations: Powder coating will do a great job protecting the metal but it doesn’t treat rust like Hammerite or POR, it will just cover the rust badly and soon the rusty area will chips off. Also, as far as I know, retouching powder coating isn’t possible, you’ll either have to redo the entire frame or touch it up with regular paint.

------------------
A.B.

OasisPhoto.com – Images from the Magical Sahara.
ShortWheelbase.com – Jeep preparations.
Coordinates Converter – Lat/Long <-> UTM Conversion Tool.
__________________
A.B.
OasisPhoto.com – Images from the Magical Sahara.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 27 Apr 2004
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Somerset, Great Britain
Posts: 315
Whatever finish you're going to apply, I would thoroughly de-grease it, get it sand-blasted and _immediately_ get some primer on, preferably an etching variety.

Having said that, the last bike frame I did was a Gilera 50cc moped about 25 years ago, so I shouldn't take my advice a too well informed.

I do know though that freshly-cleaned steel will start to corrode almost immediately, so the quicker it's covered the better.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 27 Apr 2004
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Gwynedd, Wales, UK
Posts: 252
Thank you both, i.e. LordStig and A.B.
Regarding doing a proper job of the repainting, that is, stripping the frame to bare metal; I must admit that that is the only way to do a proper job. But, the thing is, I'm worried that with a job this big (remember I'll be doing a lot of mechanical work as well) then there's a danger that it just won't get finished. I started a complete overhaul of a 1934 PA MG in 1966, did 95% of the work, left home to go to college and I never touched it since. So the possibility of losing interest before finishing is a real threat.
As for Hammerite, I don't trust that as it seems to chip very easily, more so if you put on a lot of coats. (If I remember, it's ok to recoat within a few hours of the first one drying, otherwise you have to leave it a long time to allow it to harden fully before further coats.) Anyway, from what you say, I might go ahead and give it the Jenolite (or whatever) treatment.
A.B.- the only thing I can remember about plastic/powder coating is that it does look good when new, but bloody awful when corrosion sets in after slight damage, so I do have reservations about that. Er, what's POR?
Thanks, both.
John

------------------
Johnefyn
__________________
Johnef
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 27 Apr 2004
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Gwynedd, Wales, UK
Posts: 252
IanC- Just seen your reply-I must have got it just as I posted my replies to LordStig and A.B
Yes, I agree absolutely with what you say about getting the bare metal coated as quickly as possible. A monumental mason who had a small sandblasting cubicle did some work for me a few years ago, (he used to make pictures on gravestones, I think he used some form of stencil and used the sand blasting as a sort of airbrush) He accidentally got one end of the part wet and although he wiped it clean immediately I had rust coming through on that end within a few weeks. So with the metal being chemically clean it seems to be eager to pick up any contaminant. The job was a freebie-no guarantee!
Cheers,
John


------------------
Johnefyn
__________________
Johnef
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 27 Apr 2004
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Somerset, Great Britain
Posts: 315
John

I'm not very keen on Hammerite myself. Like you say, the re-coating process is rather odd, and they don't recommend a primer. It always seems to me a bit thin in the "dimples".

I'm sure in Wales (south anyway) you are spoilt for choice of people who have the gear to quickly and thoroughly do any sand-blasting.

If I'd gone to so much trouble as to have everything stripped off the frame, I wouldn't skimp on the re-painting! You'll be p****d off if it starts rusting next winter!

I'm no expert, but I have a feeling 2-pack epoxy may be the way to go?

Regarding "losing interest", the Gilera I mentioned ended up with a very nice frame. Unfortunately, nothing was even attached to it (at least by me)!

------------------
www.aslc43.dsl.pipex.com
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 27 Apr 2004
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Gwynedd, Wales, UK
Posts: 252
Ian,
I heard once that most "ordinary" paints & enamels are porous to a greater or lesser extent, hence their imperfect protection against corrosion. As far as I can tell, Hammerite does give protection irrespective of whether any corrosion has been removed prior to application, as long as it isn't damaged or chipped, and I've attributed this to Hammerite not being porous. Perhaps somebody can tell me if I'm talking bollocks. And I do agree that it does seem thin in the dimples, must be a weak point, surely.
I used to work with BT (British Telecom) and the underground cable jointers used two-part epoxy resin to encapsulate a completed joint, apparently this was absolutely impervious and non-porous, so perhaps two-pack really is the way to go.

Nay, nay, (and thrice nay) I am NOT stripping the frame clean,(I mean I'm not taking the bits/wiring/swing arm/forks): this will be at best an imperfect quickie to stop the thing rusting away, even though I may feel guilty for ever more for having done half a job!
Thanks Ian,
John


------------------
Johnefyn


[This message has been edited by John Roberts (edited 27 April 2004).]
__________________
Johnef
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 27 Apr 2004
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Cairo, Egypt
Posts: 456
Quote:
the possibility of losing interest before finishing is a real threat.
Did I mention that I painted the frame more than a year ago and ...... still counting...
Quote:

what's POR?
From the POR-15 website:
Quote:
Our POR-15 Rust Preventive Paint, acknowledged worldwide as the finest rust preventive coating ever developed, stops rust permanently and is the product by which all others are measured.
You can buy it in the UK from Frost.
------------------
A.B.

OasisPhoto.com – Images from the Magical Sahara.
ShortWheelbase.com – Jeep preparations.
Coordinates Converter – Lat/Long <-> UTM Conversion Tool.

[This message has been edited by A.B. (edited 27 April 2004).]
__________________
A.B.
OasisPhoto.com – Images from the Magical Sahara.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 27 Apr 2004
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Gwynedd, Wales, UK
Posts: 252
Hi Ahmed
I've just had a look at your gallery: amazing! Go take a look, everyone, see it at OasisPhoto.com. (see A.B.'s reply above.)
Oh, and thanks for being so frank about not having yet completed the repainting project!
Best wishes,
John


------------------
Johnefyn
__________________
Johnef
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


 
 



Renedian Adventures

HU DVD Summer Special!

Now that summer is here, get On the Road! Take 30% off the Achievable Dream - On the Road! 2-DVD set until August 31 only. Get On the Road! Learn the tips to staying healthy, happy and secure on your motorcycle adventure!

Our veteran travellers share their tips (and great stories) for staying healthy, happy and secure on your motorcycle adventure.

"A fantastic, informative and inspirational DVD."

"It's brilliant - thank you very much!"

Check it out at the HU Store! Remember to use Coupon Code 'ONTHEROAD' on your order when you checkout.

What others say about HU...

"I just wanted to say thanks for doing this and sharing so much with the rest of us." Dave, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the DVD series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring! The new look of the website is very impressive, updated and catchy. Thank you so very much!" Jennifer, Canada

"...Great site. Keep up the good work." Murray and Carmen, Australia

"We just finished a 7 month 22,000+ mile scouting trip from Alaska to the bottom of Chile and I can't tell you how many times we referred to your site for help. From how to adjust your valves, to where to stay in the back country of Peru. Horizons Unlimited was a key player in our success. Motorcycle enthusiasts from around the world are in debt to your services." Alaska Riders

contest pic

10th Annual HU Travellers Photo Contest is on now! This is an opportunity for YOU to show us your best photos and win prizes!

NEW! HU 2014 Adventure Travel T-shirts! are now available in several colors! Be the first kid on your block to have them! New lower prices on synths!

HU 2014 T-shirts now in!

Check out the new Gildan Performance cotton-feel t-shirt - 100% poly, feels like soft cotton!


What turns you on to motorcycle travel?


Global Rescue, WORLDwide evacuation services for EVERYONE

Global Rescue is the premier provider of medical, security and evacuation services worldwide and is the only company that will come to you, wherever you are, and evacuate you to your home hospital of choice. Additionally, Global Rescue places no restrictions on country of citizenship - all nationalities are eligible to sign-up!


New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80 G/S motorcycle.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events (22 this year!); we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, the HUBB or to receive the e-zine. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.


Books & DVDs

amazon

All the best travel books and videos listed and often reviewed on HU's famous Books page. Check it out and get great travel books from all over the world.


Motorcycle Express for shipping and insurance!

Motorcycle Express

MC Air Shipping, (uncrated) USA / Canada / Europe and other areas. Be sure to say "Horizons Unlimited" to get your $25 discount on Shipping!
Insurance - see: For foreigners traveling in US and Canada and for Americans and Canadians traveling in other countries, then mail it to MC Express and get your HU $15 discount!




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 17:45.