Bmw F800 Gs

[Lonesome George]

I'm looking through the threads to find information on the BMW F800 GS. But I can't find much. Why is this? I'm thinking of getting one for my big trip but don't know much about the BMWs (or motorbikes in general really!) I know it's an impossible question but what are the strengths/weaknesses of the F800 GS.

[Mollygrubber]

I currently have an R1200R, but am also interested in what people have to say about the F800GS... too complex for a long trip?

Peter

[colebatch]

I don't think its too complicated.

A Czech couple rode one from CZ across Russia, and up the Road of Bones to Magadan last year, 2-up.

And then rode it back.

Plenty of R1200GS's ride around the world these days and they are even slightly more complicated than the F800GS.

Don't automatically buy into the "don't get a modern bike" argument. It's mainly used by people who like working on their own bike, to justify their choice, usually without logical reason and often ignoring the "empirical evidence" of the hundreds of people at an one time going RTW, Alaska to Tierra del Fuego, or London to Sydney on 1200 GSs.

If you like working on your bike, get an old bike, if you don't like working on your bike, get a modern one.

I can only speak for myself, I looked an F800GS and didn't get one. Too heavy, and engine is not suited to off road riding (too revvy, not enough torque). On top of that, you do still need to develop a fuel solution too for some parts of the world, and the front suspension is pretty much unadjustable.

I suspect other people who don't choose them also are conscious of the weight (once you compare like for like with an R1200GS by adding handguards, bash plate etc, its less than 10 kgs (5%) lighter) and the fuel capacity issue. (though really the fuel issue is a pretty small one in my book).

[Mickey D]

I haven't read many RTW reports featuring the F800GS here on HUBB. But I haven't looked that hard. I know on ADV there are hundreds of threads about the bike, but few reports of very long trips that I've noticed.

I'm sure it's been done, and I'm sure the bike has done well. Far fewer issues than the Boxer's.

I've ridden the bike and was quite impressed. But I didn't go far off road and only on easy fire roads and a bit of fun two track. It did fine. Felt lighter than it was.

On our twisty California paved roads it was really good, much better than expected. This was a totally unloaded bike. The problem most BMW guys have is they over pack. I felt immediately confident on the F800GS, was riding it HARD after only 10 minutes on board. Go light, soft bags and not too many TourTwat farkles and it should be a joy.

I liked the lack of massive torque, less chance to break the rear tire loose and lose control on loose surfaces or slippery hair pins.

It IS a heavy bike but you just don't feel it. Cliche' I know. Has nice balance off road. (or course I didn't pick Fu*£@er up off me either Seems a great bike to me and if I could afford one I'd jump on it.
Out of my price range.

I'm happy with DR's, KLR's, and XR's for now. Very inexpensive, reliable and easy to work on. Mostly you do not have to work on them at all.

[AliBaba]

I'm not sure which other bikes you compare with when you say that the F800GS "lacks" torque.

This graph is a comparison between F800GS, F650GS, V-strom, Versys and Transalp.

[colebatch]

Originally Posted by AliBaba

I'm not sure which other bikes you compare with when you say that the F800GS "lacks" torque.

This graph is a comparison between F800GS, F650GS, V-strom, Versys and Transalp.

You listed all bikes that are road bikes, not suitable for proper off road conditions ... and all twin cylinder bikes. You need to compare with big single cylinder engines. If you want to know what to compare it to - thats your answer.

I did say in my post that I felt the engine was not suitable for serious off road touring ... so you show me a graph of equally (or actually MORE) unsuitable for off-roading bikes? :confused1:

And how much torque you have at 5000 - 6000 rpm is also irrelevant when talking about how much torque a bike has for off road riding (which I think is clearly what I was talking about) ... you need to know how torquey it is at 1500 - 2500 rpm - straight from idle - not what is the maximum torque figure up at 6000 rpm.

I was interested in getting the bike. I tried it. And I came to the conclusion, the engine is no-where near as suitable for dirt roads and off road riding as the big single cylinder bikes (and its too heavy).

[albert wildgen]

One does indeed not find much information on the GS 800.
First of all I suggest you have a look at this link: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=377088 Plenty of info.

I owned a 1200 GS and I switched to the GS 800, I don’t regret it. Much easier to maneuver, feels much lighter on and off road.

I am just back from a trip to Kinshasa. I used my KTM 640 Adventure because of its off road capabilities. If I had to start again I don’t know if I would use the BMW or the KTM. The latter has a clear advantage on rough pistes, but there was plenty of tar as well… The BMW is reliable, one can use it off road with the right tires and if you are 2 up you definitely should go for the BMW.

Albert

[Gottoride]

Hi!

Had dinner awhile ago with a couple of guys who took their F800GSs Cape to Cairo. Ok, mostly tarred roads, but had (mostly) only the same trouble as most other heavy bikes - blown main shocks. They also, IMHO, completely overloaded the bikes: something in excess of 80kg stuffed into panniers and top boxes.

The catalytic converter can be cut out of the exhaust system, easily done, and that solves your poorer fuel problem.

Two issues that may prevent me from buying another (apart from money):
(1) On the mentioned Cape to Cairo trip the guys had trouble with the fans getting sand into them resulting in overheating issues.
(2) Fuel range: For a bike that can do what you can do with the F800GS the tank is simply too small +-330km range. The Touratech tank is available and although pricey I think it would definitely be worth it. Especially on a long trip away from street lights and pedestrian crossings.

For more info, Google "Wilddogforum", a South African site, and search for "Levensgevaarlik" (theme of an interesting thread).

You won't be doing the Roof of Africa or the Baja 1000 on it, but you'll have great all round fun. Had so much fun on mine, it's in bike heaven... I was still smiling when I woke up in hospital!

[AliBaba]

It seems that my previous post was misunderstood. The graph was to show that the bike doesn't lack torque - nothing else.

Originally Posted by colebatch

You listed all bikes that are road bikes, not suitable for proper off road conditions ... and all twin cylinder bikes. You need to compare with big single cylinder engines. If you want to know what to compare it to - thats your answer.

Well I compared with bikes more or less in the same class.
If you compare with big single cylinder engines the F800GS looks even better. When it comes to torque there is no substitute for ccm and multiple cylinders also help.





At 3000rpm the F800GS has 50% more tourque then a KTM690 and maybe 40% more then the Tenere. Which single do you have in mind with more torque then the F800GS?

Originally Posted by colebatch

I did say in my post that the engine was not suitable for off roading ... so you show me a graph of equally (or actually MORE) unsuitable for off-roading bikes? :confused1:

The graph was to show that the F800GS doesn't lack torque, you seemed to miss that point.

Originally Posted by colebatch

And how much torque you have at 5000 - 6000 rpm is also irrelevant when talking about how much torque a bike has for off road riding (which I think is clearly what I was talking about) ... you need to know how torquey it is at 1500 - 2500 rpm - straight from idle - not what is the maximum torque figure up at 6000 rpm.

Which numbers you read from the graph is up to you. Hopefully you don't stay at 1500-2500 RPM for a long time. Designing a twin is to much compromises.

Originally Posted by colebatch

I was interested in getting the bike. I tried it. And I came to the conclusion, the engine is no-where near as suitable for dirt roads and off road riding as the big single cylinder bikes (and its too heavy).

It's to high geared and the swingwheel is a tad light.
The weight is 6,8 kg more then a Tenere

I'm a boxer-fan and will stick to old BMWs but if I should buy a non-boxer for longer trips it would probably have been the F800GS. Shocks and fuelrange might be the worst issues.

[colebatch]

Originally Posted by AliBaba

The graph was to show that the F800GS doesn't lack torque, you seemed to miss that point.

It lacks torque where I feel the torque needs to be - from idle ... you seem to miss that point.

Originally Posted by AliBaba

Hopefully you don't stay at 1500-2500 RPM for a long time. Designing a twin is to much compromises.

The roads I find most interesting, you dont see 3000 rpm too much - those are the roads where you need the torque. So to be honest, I hope I do stay below 3000 rpm for maximum possible time. Because that means I am on the most interesting roads. If by chance you like long stretches of asphalt and sitting at 4500 rpm thats great ... and I never said the bike was not great for that. As for me, when I am on roads above 3000 rpm (and just cruising around), strangely enough I don't really need much torque anymore.

Designing a single is also about compromises. Designing a tennis racquet or even a fishtank is about compromises for that matter. Designing anything is about compromises. Its all about finding the characteristics that do the job for you, and I'm sorry if you don't want to accept it, but for me, the characteristics of the 800 engine are not suitable for serious off road touring. And for me, its way too heavy.

I am not against the bike. I began wanting to buy one. And I began my first post emphasising that I felt that durability and competence of the 800 wasn't an issue for me. I backed that up by saying people I knew had done long travels on them. However I went on to say I tried it, with the intention of buying one, and didn't like it, and explained to the OP why I walked away, and why I felt it was inappropriate for my needs.

Originally Posted by AliBaba

The weight is 6,8 kg more then a Tenere

And the Tenere is 40 kgs too heavy ... I think the Tenere is even the heaviest single ever built ... so thats hardly a reasonable comparison (lets just compare it to the heaviest single ever built as if that will prove any point). On the other end of the scale the 800 is 50kgs heavier than KTM 690.

[AliBaba]

If you find any single with better torque at any RPM please let me know. I have started to design my second high-torque engine and would be very interested to see how they achieved this.

[Mickey D]

A single may not have much torque on paper but because of lighter weight will feel like it has more torque and will pull hard from a dead stop. Also more tractable than a twin in loose conditions, steep uphill, ruts. In deep sand the twin has advantage due to more overall power but may dig in more than a single. Much depends on rider.

A twin needs a better, braver and more aggressive rider to make it through tough going.

The massive torque of something like a BMW R12GS is NOT an advantage on slower more technical tracks, imo. That is no trail bike and this pretty much goes for all twins, including the F800GS. As long as things are open and faster, like Africa or Russia, no problem. But if you get into tight, technical trails a single is easier to handle.

The Tenere' weight is quite a shock! Way too heavy! I love the looks of the bike but there are many other lighter, cheaper and just as capable single bikes.

Most travelers won't be doing Submarine travel in Russia or retracing the Dakar race through Africa. Most will stay on main tracks and paved roads.
For all this I would think the F800Gs would be a fun and easy to ride bike, even two up.

I can't think of a single I would take two up. Too cramped, won't handle the weight too well. ONce again, compromises.

[AliBaba]

Originally Posted by Mickey D

A single may not have much torque on paper but because of lighter weight will feel like it has more torque and will pull hard from a dead stop.

Yes, that's the key. What's torque?


Estimating torque is difficult, comparing torque on different bikes without measuring is close to impossible.
We don't feel torque directly, a bit simplified we can say that we feel torque as acceleration. But acceleration is also hard to define (unless you measure it). Personally I feel that the KTM 690 accelerates much faster then the F800GS, it feels almost brutal when giving full throttle on the lightweight and unstable bike.
But does the KTM accelerate faster? No it doesn't! It has far lower weight but it lacks torque. If you add 30 kg luggage the difference will be even bigger.

The KTM is superior in slow tracks (mostly due to lower weight and chassis) but this has nothing to do with torque.
Loads of torque is nice, but it's only a small part of the equation.


To drive a bike with more torque then you are used to might be scary but after a few days you are probably used to it. I borrowed a HP2 for three days and on technical tracks it was right out scary, but the second day I started to get the grip on it and it was fun. The third day was heaven.
Nowadays a lot of bike comes with a switch that gives you different engine-characteristics, it will probably show up on Adv-bikes in a few years and make things easier.

A bad thing with the F800GS is that it lacks rotating mass. You need a bit training to keep it going at low revs. This is more or less the same on the 690 and if you combine it with a badly tuned engine it's not fun to drive slow.

The KTM is used as en example because it's the most powerful single I know.

[ExtremeGene]

I'm mid trip on an 800GS, currently in Malaysia after leaving the uk in May last year.
I have to say as a ride goes the bike has eaten up everything thats been put in front of it including some really hard off road in Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Pakistan and Nepal. As a bike goes it can deal with anything off road you want to put it through and is also great on the road as well.

On the flip side, there seem to be a few mechanical issues. I've heard of chains suddenly going but this hasn't happened to me yet. I'm on the original chain and sprocket set and i'm on 23000 miles.
The weakness seems to be the fuel pump. I had mine go on the way from the airport to bangkok and i also meet a group of italians making a film for BMW who had the same issue in Tajikistan. Saying that it's a car fuel pump that should be available in all countries.

The forks seem to be as strong as an ox. I saw a bike in the penang BMW office that had been virtually folded in half after hitting a wall and the front forks weren't affected at all.

btw, i've had 2 crashes, once run off the road and the other hit by a jeep on the wrong side of the road going round a bend in Pakistan. Both times the bike was strong enough to stand up to it.

Whatever bike you get you are going to have problems along the way. New or old the bikes take such a battering that you will always have to fix it on the way. It's all part of the fun.

As far as the comments about keeping the bike going a slow speeds.
Couldn't disagree more, I've been a virtual standstill on tricky tracks and it's always been responsive and complient and i'm no expert. I've only been riding for 2 years and my off road riding had only consisted of a weekend off road course and a couple of weekends on salisbury plain before i left the UK.

Good luck with your choice.

Russ

[doosey]

ive had 2 F800GS s , the first one had more issues than a alcholic smack head, it had plenty of recalls and used to cut out at junctions, the dealer couldnt rectifiy this but im convinced now it was a fuel pump problem, got so sick of it i traded it for a 1200 adv, then another 800 came around at the right price so i bought it and stuck it in a container to kazakhstan with work equipment, rode the 1200 out there and then proceeded to try and kill the 800 around the kulsary area, and i mean seriously abused, we used it to herd horses and camels on my friends farm and it spent a lot of time the wrong way up apart from a snapped chain, a snapped spoke and a dodgey fuel pump its been no problem, however i wouldnt like to do long distances on the road with it the seat is crap and even with a taller screen not the most comfortable bike in the world, but each to his own,
i never intended to bring the f800 back to the uk and was going to ride it round kz till it died, its been used and abused all winter out there and has never failed to start (its been left outside in -30 with no cover) and if its still running and not completley knackered this summer i might even bring it home everybody has different riding styles so whats good for others might not be good for you, i cant get away with the ktm, so what? go test ride one and see what you think ( bet you cant really really break it