Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Technical, Bike forums > BMW Tech
BMW Tech BMW Tech Forum - For Questions specific and of interest to BMW riders only.
Photo by Daniel Rintz, Himba children, Namibia

The only impossible journey
is the one
you never begin

Photo by Daniel Rintz,
Himba children, Namibia



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 30 Jul 2011
goo's Avatar
goo goo is offline
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: London, UK
Posts: 206
Battery flat after one week parked

I left my F650GS twin for a week and came back to find a flat battery. Just before this I had had an annual service with BMW Park Lane so I called them and was informed that this was a normal enough period for the battery to discharge. They said a new battery might do 2 weeks but mine at 2.5 years old, one week was par for the course. Can anyone confirm? Seems mighty short to me. I have to add that the alarm was on (although it is supposed to sleep and then switch off to avoid this issue) and I had a GPS cable (not unit) plugged into the accessory socket (again, theoretically not a problem as the socket is supposed to switch off 15 mins after ignition off)

I am heading off for a year around South America in a few months time and might well have periods where I don't ride for a week or more - so should I carry a solar charger? I am thinking of getting one for home (no power socket availability where I keep the bike in my front garden)

Or does it sound like my battery needs replacing? BMW Park Lane said it just passed their tests...
__________________
http://www.guyfixsen.com
http://wanderinggoo.blogspot.com
F650GS twin - Enfield Bullet 350 - Honda XL250 Degree
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 30 Jul 2011
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Andrews
Posts: 662
Hi Goo, I would change the battery before setting of to southern climes. If you travel like I do which means stopping and starting a minimum of 15-20 times a day, pic, food, pea stops and giving your back a break, the battery gets a real hammering and having just taken a magnificent pic of the hands in the middle of the Atacama desert, being greeted with only a click when you engage the propulsion unit energising sequencer can spoil you whole day. As regards the alarm, I stopped using the alarm on my 1200GS except for on short stops in UK crime ridden towns and cities using it when the bike was parked up for 2 days just flattened the battery. Buy an alarmed disc lock and if that flattens your battery you really do have problems. I'm off to S. America myself in about 6 weeks, might see you there. Ride safe.
__________________
Mike
---------
Mike is riding the twisty road in the sky
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 30 Jul 2011
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Stockholm - Sweden
Posts: 317
Interesting.
Thought BMW had eliminated that "sickness" since the /7 series...

Odyssey batteries keep the charging far better than standad acid batteries.

Still, in 1-2 weeks?!... just as it were with the /7 standard 18-20A alternator and prone to be shorted diod-board...

Happens when there is something pulling/using current, like a bike-alarm, /7 diod-board, bad wires, etc.

Good idea to bring a solar-cell-charger!
Look at options with flexible solar-cells to cover the topbox with - I think that might be a good idea/solution
__________________
Drive Safely,
Albert
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 30 Jul 2011
Toyark's Avatar
-
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,341
Smile

Solar power .....
One has to admire an optimist Albert
cough cough
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 31 Jul 2011
brclarke's Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
Posts: 812
I've found that on average a motorcycle battery only lasts me maybe 2 or 3 years - and I've found that they can turn from good to bad at the drop of a hat. They need regular replacement just like other consumable parts.
__________________
Bruce Clarke - 2020 Yamaha XV250
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 31 Jul 2011
Tim Cullis's Avatar
Super Moderator
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: London and Granada Altiplano
Posts: 3,078
Motorbike batteries are quite small and can't withstand multiple deep discharges, so it's a good idea to connect up a trickle charger from time to time to keep them topped up and extend the life of the battery. Otherwise the sulphur molecules in the battery acid that are not reactivated instead start to coat the lead plates.

I have an F650GS twin which is coming up for 2 years old. The battery isn't particularly accessible so I wired in a connector coming out near the headstock to make the recharging easier which I do every two weeks. I should really do this more regularly but like you the bike is outside the house, so I have to run a long cable over the garden. I'm finding that it currently takes a couple of hours to bring the battery to full charge, so it looks as if my battery will need replacing before too long. As bclarke says above, batteries go from OK-ish to buggared overnight.

Best thing for your trip is to (1) replace the battery beforehand, and (2) take a multimeter and check the battery charge every few days (again, wiring in a connector will help make this easier). A 12v battery should show around 14v when fully charged. Once it gets below 12.5v sulphation starts in ernest. The good news is that getting a suitable replacement battery on the road isn't as difficult as I would have thought, though getting one to fit neatly can be more of a problem.

Several times I've been with people when their battery has discharged so much when riding offroad that it won't start. The cause is normally stop/start riding, especially with auxillary lighting, heated grips and so on, but also forgetting to turn the ignition (and therefore headlight) off when the engine isn't running.

One of the really nice things about the F650GS twin is that when the engine stops running the headlight switches itself off automatically (marvels of CanBUS) even when the ignition is still on, so you won't get so much of a problem in this area.
__________________
"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live,"
Irving Mather (1892-1966)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 31 Jul 2011
goo's Avatar
goo goo is offline
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: London, UK
Posts: 206
Probably another in a long line of stupid questions.. but do people generally carry a charger when on long tours?
__________________
http://www.guyfixsen.com
http://wanderinggoo.blogspot.com
F650GS twin - Enfield Bullet 350 - Honda XL250 Degree
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 31 Jul 2011
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 376
I never have. Push-starting pillions do weigh more, but I have found them far more versatile.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 31 Jul 2011
Tim Cullis's Avatar
Super Moderator
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: London and Granada Altiplano
Posts: 3,078
On a long trip you don't need a charger, so long as

1. you start with a decent battery in the first place
2. you are riding fair distances every day
3. you are not constantly stopping/starting
4. and not using tons of accessories, especially extra lights and heated jacket/grips
__________________
"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live,"
Irving Mather (1892-1966)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 31 Jul 2011
goo's Avatar
goo goo is offline
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: London, UK
Posts: 206
Hmm. Well I will have a new battery and I'm not planning on tons of accessories but I tend to amble, stop a fair bit and maybe not ride for a day or two here and there. One time I stored my bike for a month in Thailand. It had an ancient battery and was started fine when I came back to it..

I'm quite taken with the idea of a Lithium battery though and it sounds like they hold their charge much better than Lead-Acid. I guess I will just have to test the battery out a bit before I go and see how much confidence it inspires.
__________________
http://www.guyfixsen.com
http://wanderinggoo.blogspot.com
F650GS twin - Enfield Bullet 350 - Honda XL250 Degree
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 1 Aug 2011
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 208
Your £80 an hour BMW mechanic is telling you porkies or at the very least, speaking out of ignorance. A healthy battery WILL NOT spontaneously self discharge on two days. It is simply not capable of doing this.

No matter how deep the shag pile carpet in these fancy dealers gets the old "they all do that mister" attitude persists - lol.

If your bike is still under warranty take it back and TELL them (don't ask) to sort it out and provide you will a detailed report from the auto electrical technician listing the checks they did. Insist on this check list. Don't accept "no fault found" from these bozos.

If you bike is out of warranty take it to a reputable auto electrician. After they have finished laughing at the £80 an hour Park Lane BMW technician they will test your battery then test stator output, test loads in all states i.e. ignition on/off alarm on/off and any other condition they wish, identifying and quantifying electrical loads and quality of grounds, connectors, terminations etc. From this they will give you a report on what is happening on your electrical system and what you need to do to give you the security you require on your trip. The fixes are often very simple and cost little or nothing.

When they have done this and solved your problem take their report together with your newly fixed BMW to BMW Park Lane and ask them politely to settle the bill from the auto electrician

Motorbike electrics are crap and totally inadequate for out of the way riding. If you are not sparky take your bike to a sparky before the big trip and ask for a check up and their advice.

Include a functioning regulator/rectifier in your spares stash!

I have a question: can you take the battery out of your BMW and still bump start it?
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 1 Aug 2011
goo's Avatar
goo goo is offline
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: London, UK
Posts: 206
Hi Fastship

According to Bertrand on another of my threads, you wouldn't be able to bump start without a battery as the fuel system needs some volts to pressurise. Guess this is a downside of Fuel Injection.

The battery didn't discharge in 2 days, it was 8 in fact. Still very short mind you. My guess is that it was the alarm system, reading between the lines of a few comments I've had. This is despite the manual saying that it goes into sleep mode and cuts off after a few days to avoid this exact problem. Maybe my battery is a bit old and then the alarm pushed it over the edge on this occasion. I think I'm going to need a new battery for my trip anyway, so I'm going to get a Lithium one and monitor its' volts and also carry jump leads.

I'm going to call up Park Lane tomorrow and grill them a bit more deeply based on everyone's comments...
__________________
http://www.guyfixsen.com
http://wanderinggoo.blogspot.com
F650GS twin - Enfield Bullet 350 - Honda XL250 Degree
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 1 Aug 2011
colebatch's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: London / Moscow
Posts: 1,913
Quote:
Originally Posted by goo View Post
Hi Fastship

According to Bertrand on another of my threads, you wouldn't be able to bump start without a battery as the fuel system needs some volts to pressurise. Guess this is a downside of Fuel Injection.

The battery didn't discharge in 2 days, it was 8 in fact. Still very short mind you. My guess is that it was the alarm system, reading between the lines of a few comments I've had. This is despite the manual saying that it goes into sleep mode and cuts off after a few days to avoid this exact problem. Maybe my battery is a bit old and then the alarm pushed it over the edge on this occasion. I think I'm going to need a new battery for my trip anyway, so I'm going to get a Lithium one and monitor its' volts and also carry jump leads.

I'm going to call up Park Lane tomorrow and grill them a bit more deeply based on everyone's comments...

Caution on the lithium batteries ... they "hold" charge better, but generally they have less charge to hold. They deliver tremendous starting power- much more than a conventional battery. I have just swapped my 3kg, 10AH odyssey to a 0.5 kg lithium battery. It starts like a dream. It takes years to self discharge ... BUT the amount of power is is capable of storing is a lot less than the equivalent Lead Acid battery.

i.e. if you are not using ANY current while parked up, the lithium battery will survive better, as it will discharge much less and still give you that massive starting power whenever you turn to it. But if you have an alarm on for a week, without riding the bike, a lithium battery will discharge faster, because it doesnt store as much power as a Lead battery and your alarm will use up the charge in a Li battery faster than it would on a larger heavier Pb battery.

So as for what is better, it depends on how you use it.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 3 Aug 2011
goo's Avatar
goo goo is offline
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: London, UK
Posts: 206
Isn't it just about the Ampere-hours? ie if you have a Lead-Acid battery and a Lithium battery both rated 14Ah, they should discharge at the rate rate - 1 amp for 14 hours or 0.5 amps for 28 hours etc.

Or maybe I'm missing something?
__________________
http://www.guyfixsen.com
http://wanderinggoo.blogspot.com
F650GS twin - Enfield Bullet 350 - Honda XL250 Degree
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 3 Aug 2011
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Stockholm - Sweden
Posts: 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
Solar power .....
One has to admire an optimist Albert
cough cough

...I did mean as a back-up system for charging whilst parked, not as primary energy sorce for driving...


To use a solarcell as substitute for gas/petrol, now -that- would be a bit optimistic, still there is an annual race across Australia with solarpowered vehicles.




Lets enjoy the techinological development of vehicles.



On the Swedish market, for cars, I know of these two options:
Solcellspanel f�r bilbatteri 17,5 V 1,5 W - Jula Online – Allt för ditt hemmaprojekt!
1.5W... that is too little to make a difference less used over several days...
13W is far better, but far from what is really needed:
Solcellspanel i v�ska 12 V 13 W - Jula Online – Allt för ditt hemmaprojekt!

These are not just plug-in gadgets since they deliver 17V.

Back in the 80:ties I was taught that one should use about 10% of the batterys capacity as charging current - this may well have changed since then though; but is gives a hint of the need.
__________________
Drive Safely,
Albert
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
XT600E electric issue! Flat battery bacardi23 Yamaha Tech 6 14 Jun 2011 01:20
105 flat battery Peter Girling Light Overland Vehicle Tech 2 25 Nov 2009 19:59
Why does my Duke battery go flat? XT GIRL KTM Tech 5 8 Jun 2008 16:26
r1200gsa flat battery Roi BMW Tech 6 26 Mar 2006 02:15
IMO Computer - flat battery Ralph Equipment Reviews 1 3 Jul 2003 02:23

 
 

Announcements

Thinking about traveling? Not sure about the whole thing? Watch the HU Achievable Dream Video Trailers and then get ALL the information you need to get inspired and learn how to travel anywhere in the world!

Have YOU ever wondered who has ridden around the world? We did too - and now here's the list of Circumnavigators!
Check it out now
, and add your information if we didn't find you.

Next HU Eventscalendar

HU Event and other updates on the HUBB Forum "Traveller's Advisories" thread.
ALL Dates subject to change.

2024:

Add yourself to the Updates List for each event!

Questions about an event? Ask here

HUBBUK: info

See all event details

 
World's most listened to Adventure Motorbike Show!
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)



Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance.

Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.

Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.

Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!


 

What others say about HU...

"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia

"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK

"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia

"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada

"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa

"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia

"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany

Lots more comments here!



Five books by Graham Field!

Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook

"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.



Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!

New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:08.