Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Technical, Bike forums > BMW Tech

BMW Tech BMW Tech Forum - For Questions specific and of interest to BMW riders only. Questions comparing which bike is best etc go in the "Which Bike" forum.
Contact Overland Solutions for all your custom modifications and setup for overland travel.

Parts & accessories for adventure touring motorcycles including GPS mounts, panniers, luggage, protection, dry bags, camping gear, tools, books & DVDs.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 9 Jul 2011
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: London
Posts: 20
Question 1200 GSA rough idle/stall problem

Hi. I'm hoping there might be someone here who can help.

2007 GSA. It's developed a rough idle. If I add a Power Controller, after 5 or 10 minutes of riding, once the engine is up to temperature, this happens:

YouTube - ‪07 GSA rough idle issue‬‏

It's been checked with a GS911 - nothing - and the coils have been checked and are fine. And it's recently had its 36k service and all was ok apart from the rough idle/stal.

So I'm drawing a blank and getting frustrated as I'm off on a 6,000 mile trip in a couple of weeks. Can anyone help diagnose the problem?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10 Jul 2011
Super Moderator
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,904
First of all RE: "it's recently had its 36k service and all was ok apart from the rough idle/stal."
Surely you should have told your dealer then if you've paid for a service and this happens?

In no particular order, I'd check - to try and isolate the problem
1- your power commander -
has it been installed correctly?
is it tuneable?
is there corrosion/water in the connectors? (classic fault)
Importantly- does the bike run correctly without it?

Check point 5 below first!

2- Bridged Spark plug?
3- When was last time you have the valve clearances done?
4- Air filter - last checked/changed?
5- Throttle cable seating - easily disturbed when the tank is removed-the cables are attached to the throttle bodies
6- alternator output?
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10 Jul 2011
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: London
Posts: 20
Thanks for your response, Bertrand. The service was done privately (by Steptoe on the ukgser forum) who knows his stuff and the idle issue has him stumped.

1. Without the PC it doesn't stall but the idle is rough. Here it is on video, without the PC:

YouTube - ‪07 GSA rough idle‬‏

The PC was installed correctly, has a custom map and I've greased the connectors. I thought it was a PC problem at first and Dynojet sent me a replacement, but the same thing happens. For some reason, though, it's worse with the PC as you can see from the first video.

2/3/4 - all taken care of at the last service (2 weeks ago.)

5. Looks OK.

6. Don't know.

Looking around other forums, things that might be factors are
Stepper motors
Crank sensor
Vacuum leak

Do any of those sound likely in this case? The intriguing thing is that the PC makes it worse but is not the source of the problem!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10 Jul 2011
T.REX63's Avatar
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Atlanta, GA / USA
Posts: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorbaker View Post
...
Looking around other forums, things that might be factors are
Stepper motors
Crank sensor
Vacuum leak

Do any of those sound likely in this case? ...
When you had the GS911 connected, did you cycle the stepper motors? Any difference?
__________________
Thomas

"Hey, ...I'm just ridin' shotgun"
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10 Jul 2011
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: London
Posts: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by T.REX63 View Post
When you had the GS911 connected, did you cycle the stepper motors? Any difference?
Yes, they were reset, but then gradually moved up one side followed by the other when the engine was restarted. The guy who did the service said he'd not come across this before. All he could think of was the coils, which he checked and they are fine apparently. That's as far as I've got.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10 Jul 2011
T.REX63's Avatar
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Atlanta, GA / USA
Posts: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorbaker View Post
...All he could think of was the coils, which he checked and they are fine apparently. That's as far as I've got.
Without knowing how the coils were checked, I would swap the main (straight) coils between cylinders and see if anything behaves differently, since that is easy to do...
__________________
Thomas

"Hey, ...I'm just ridin' shotgun"
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10 Jul 2011
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: London
Posts: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by T.REX63 View Post
Without knowing how the coils were checked, I would swap the main (straight) coils between cylinders and see if anything behaves differently, since that is easy to do...
He disconnected the lower ones, then the uppers to see if there was a dud on either side, but didn't swap them over. Is that worth doing?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10 Jul 2011
T.REX63's Avatar
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Atlanta, GA / USA
Posts: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorbaker View Post
He disconnected the lower ones, then the uppers to see if there was a dud on either side, but didn't swap them over. Is that worth doing?
Again, that what I would do since it is easy to accomplished. Also, it looks like you have done pretty much everything else.

Sometimes intermittent, weird stuff can be identified when fiddling with it, i.e. broken cable leads or bad connections.

You did say that you removed the power commander and the problem still persisted - right? After the power commander was disabled, did you disconnect the battery to reset the electronic? Again, just a stab in the dark...
__________________
Thomas

"Hey, ...I'm just ridin' shotgun"
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12 Jul 2011
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: London
Posts: 20
I took it into a BMW dealer earlier today and here is the report:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...1ZTJk&hl=en_GB

So, a blank, and an expensive one. A bit frustrating - I have no idea where to go from here.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 13 Jul 2011
T.REX63's Avatar
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Atlanta, GA / USA
Posts: 297
Hmm, ...nothing odd I can see on the dealer's report with my limited knowledge.

I went back to your first- and second video, i.e. with PC and without PC respectively.

I could not really detect a "rough" idle from the second video (without PC). However, you would know best comparing it to "pre-service" idle.

When installing the PC, how much time is required to run the engine to self-adjust the ECU to the different air/fuel mixture? Does it make a difference in the idle, if you ride the bike for 15-20 minutes (until at operating temperature)?

If not already done, you might want to consider cross-posting at ADVriders "GSpot" section. The have a lot of folks on there with good technical knowledge. Sorry, I can't be of more help...
__________________
Thomas

"Hey, ...I'm just ridin' shotgun"
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 15 Jul 2011
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: London
Posts: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by T.REX63 View Post
When installing the PC, how much time is required to run the engine to self-adjust the ECU to the different air/fuel mixture? Does it make a difference in the idle, if you ride the bike for 15-20 minutes (until at operating temperature)?

If not already done, you might want to consider cross-posting at ADVriders "GSpot" section. The have a lot of folks on there with good technical knowledge. Sorry, I can't be of more help...
I don't know the answer to your question. I have a custom map, not the autotune device, so the PC's input is pre-defined. I don't know how much time it takes the bike to adjust. Another rider has suggested that adding the autotune module would help sort out this issue.

In the meantime I've ordered and installed an accelerator module, which gives the smoothness of the PC via a different route, and so far hasn't led to any stalls. The basic problem with the idle remains so I'm resigned to living with it, or possibly to getting a new TPS to see if that's at fault. I read somewhere over in the Adv forum about someone replacing this, even though diagnostics said it was fine, and a very similar problem to mine sorting itself out after that.

M
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
R 1200 GS / R 1200 GS Seat height MikeD BMW Tech 3 25 Apr 2010 07:52
XR650R Erratic idle problem Baron Bolton Honda Tech 3 20 Oct 2009 22:53
problems with honda dominator( engine stall) alcasi Honda Tech 3 1 Jun 2007 18:17
Stall after starting JJeremy Yamaha Tech 3 19 May 2006 20:01

 
 
 

NEW! HU 2015 Motorcycle Adventure Travel Calendar is now available! Get your copy now for some terrific travel inspiration!

HUGE, 11.5 x 16.5 inches, beautifully printed in Germany on top quality stock! Photos are the winning images from over 600 entries in the 9th Annual HU Photo Contest!

Horizons Unlimited 2015 Motorcycle Adventure Travel Calendar.

"The calendar is magnificent!"

"I just wanted to say how much I'm loving the new, larger calendar!"

We share the profit with the winning photographers. YOU could be in the HU Calendar too - enter here!

Next HU Eventscalendar

See all events

 

HU DVD Autumn Special!

Take 40% off Road Heroes Part 1 until October 31 only!

Road Heroes features tales of adventure, joy and sheer terror by veteran travellers Peter and Kay Forwood (193 countries two-up on a Harley); Dr. Greg Frazier (5 times RTW); Tiffany Coates (RTW solo female); and Rene Cormier (University of Gravel Roads).

The first in an exciting new series, Road Heroes features tales of adventure, joy and sheer terror by veteran travellers."Inspiring and hilarious!"

"I loved watching this DVD!"

"Lots of amazing stories and even more amazing photographs, it's great fun and very inspirational."

"Wonderful entertainment!"

Check it out at the HU Store! Remember to use Coupon Code 'HEROES' on your order when you checkout.



Scottoiler automatic chain oilers. The most important accessory for your next motorcycle adventure!


Renedian Adventures


Renedian Adventures

What others say about HU...

"I just wanted to say thanks for doing this and sharing so much with the rest of us." Dave, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the DVD series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring! The new look of the website is very impressive, updated and catchy. Thank you so very much!" Jennifer, Canada

"...Great site. Keep up the good work." Murray and Carmen, Australia

"We just finished a 7 month 22,000+ mile scouting trip from Alaska to the bottom of Chile and I can't tell you how many times we referred to your site for help. From how to adjust your valves, to where to stay in the back country of Peru. Horizons Unlimited was a key player in our success. Motorcycle enthusiasts from around the world are in debt to your services." Alaska Riders

contest pic

10th Annual HU Travellers Photo Contest is on now! This is an opportunity for YOU to show us your best photos and win prizes!

NEW! HU 2014 Adventure Travel T-shirts! are now available in several colors! Be the first kid on your block to have them! New lower prices on synths!

HU 2014 T-shirts now in!

Check out the new Gildan Performance cotton-feel t-shirt - 100% poly, feels like soft cotton!


What turns you on to motorcycle travel?


Global Rescue, WORLDwide evacuation services for EVERYONE

Global Rescue is the premier provider of medical, security and evacuation services worldwide and is the only company that will come to you, wherever you are, and evacuate you to your home hospital of choice. Additionally, Global Rescue places no restrictions on country of citizenship - all nationalities are eligible to sign-up!


New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80 G/S motorcycle.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events (22 this year!); we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, the HUBB or to receive the e-zine. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.


Books & DVDs

amazon

All the best travel books and videos listed and often reviewed on HU's famous Books page. Check it out and get great travel books from all over the world.


Motorcycle Express for shipping and insurance!

Motorcycle Express

MC Air Shipping, (uncrated) USA / Canada / Europe and other areas. Be sure to say "Horizons Unlimited" to get your $25 discount on Shipping!
Insurance - see: For foreigners traveling in US and Canada and for Americans and Canadians traveling in other countries, then mail it to MC Express and get your HU $15 discount!




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 13:36.