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Turning temporarily imported bike into a "roadworthy" one in NSW - just silly!
We got our Estonian-registered bike imported into Australia (Sydney) under a Carnet just last week and are now trying to figure out how to ride around the country in a lawful way. It seems that one thing that is required in almost the whole country is the Compulsory Third Party insurance (CTP) for bodily injury. Australian Automobile Association's (AAA) web page suggests that it should be provided by the Roads and Transport Authority (RTA). RTA in NSW, however, says that they absolutely do not deal with CTP and that we should address insurance companies instead. Different insurance companies that we've contacted only provide insurance for vehicles that are registered in Australia. We are not intending to register the bike here since we're here on a temporary basis only.
This whole thing is quite confusing, since today we met a biker from Germany (whose bike has German licence plate) who had shipped his bike from Singapore to Darwin, and he said he got his "green slip" (goes for CTP, I suppose) from a motor regisrty in Darwin. Well, it is obvious that different states here have different requirements and that since NSW does not require foreign registered bikes to have any sort of permits or insurance it does not offer one either. But soon we'll get to Queensland and it appears from AAA web page that there one should have insurance to travel on their roads. Also, to get any sort of insurance, companies ask for the number on the "pink slip" (roadworthiness certificate), but those slips are only issued to registered vehicles, and we were directed to go to some place which offers "blue slips" (whatever they are for), but in order to get one, you have to have some sort of approval from Canberra. That does sound too complicated to be reasonable. Thus, my question is: has anyone ever obtained CTP in NSW, and what steps did you go through to get one? |
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As a visitor you have to buy CTP in each state you travel to, but it's a PITA. In Victoria you buy it from VIC Roads - can't remember the technical term for it. In NSW you buy it from one of the NSW insurance providers and I think it's the same in QLD. For the rest of Australia I don't know, but I do know it's a stupid system. Why they can't have one CTP policy for visiting vehicles and that policy covers all states, is beyond me. |
I would call NRMA insurance division to see if you can take out a policy without actually having Oz rego. If they will sell you a policy (it's cheap) it will cover you in all states and territories.
You could also call any one of the other insurance companies that offer CTP but NRMA should also be able to advise about the combination of Carnet and Insurance, don't ask the state rego departments - you will inevitably deal with someone either behind a counter or on the phone who has no idea. |
Hi Margus
You can easily get full insurance from Swann for a foreign vehicle in Oz. No pink slip number required. We just got it with monthly payments then cancelled when we left. Most other insurance companies, including NRMA will not insure foreign vehicles. We got the Vicroads TAC permit for the time we were in Vic, it was only $30 or so for 2 weeks but if going again I would not bother - It's so hard to find out what is required I am sure the police would have no clue that a TAC is required for foreign vehicles when it isn't needed for out of state ones. There was also some permit supposedly required for South Aus but the SA transport dept didn't really seem to know the details & suggested that we call into an office when we got there - We decided that if head office in Adelaide didn't know, the office in little Port Augusta probably didn't know, & the SA police definitely wouldn't know so we didn't bother. Cheers Clint |
Thanks for that mates. :thumbup1:
I'll try that Swann for a starter. |
I'm surprised by your comment that NSW doesn't require foreign vehicles to have third party personal injury insurance.
In NSW (and I imagine it's the same throughout Australia) it's an offence for an unregistered and uninsured (as in CTP) vehicle to use a public road, just as it's an offence for any unlicensed person to drive on a public road. It seems strange that a foreign vehicle would be exempt from a law that pertains to all local vehicles. Then again we all know the law can be an ass. |
Hi Margus,
just so you're clear a green slip is another name for CTP insurance (it comes on a green piece of paper) and a pink slip is another name for a roadworthiness certificate or safety check (it used to come on a pink piece of paper but doesn't anymore). Don't worry about the blue slip. That's a safety check that has to be done if you want to register a vehicle in NSW that has been registered in another state / country. I bought my car with Victorian rego, to get it registered in NSW I had to get a blue slip instead of a pink slip. Nothing to do with Canberra, just went to an authorised blue slip inspection place. I would also be really surprised if you didn't need CTP to drive in NSW. I'm sure the police would expect you to have CTP too. The bureaucracy around rego / CTP here is just crazy though. My 4wd is on it's way to Africa at the moment and to keep my NSW rego current I still have to pay for CTP insurance which I'm pretty sure isn't valid outside Aus. |
Here's the deal - we've called AAA which forwarded us to Royal Automobile Club of Queensland (this is where we're going next), which forwarded us to Queensland Transport Department, which gave us a list of insurance companies that should be able to issue CTP for overseas registered vehicles. All in all, we've spoken to DOZENS of insurance companies (including the beforementioned), and either they know nothing about green slips for overseas registered vehicles, or they say that they only provide insurance for Australian registered vehicles. During four days we've spent hours on the phone trying to figure it out, but the institutions that should know about this thing just keep on forwarding us to someone else.
We only found one company in Queensland which maybe does provide CTP for overseas vehicles, but one can only obtain it in Queensland. But I would not count on that. It's just unbelievable how nobody in specialized institutions knows anything about handling temporarily imported vehicles and and none can provide us a simple CTP if it's not registered in Australia - fer fox sakes, it covers 3rd party anyway, doesn't matter who crashes into anybody, non-registered or registered vehicle in Australia. Basically it's like asking from insurance company "do you want my money in an easy way?" and ther answer is "no". Blueslip - we went to a specialized garage that issues blue slips and they said they need a special kind of customs clearance paper from Canberra - nothing else does for them, not even a Carnet (which basically is THE utmost-customs clearance paper). It can't get more silly than that, or it's just NSW? When it comes to the CTP requirement in NSW, we were told at the RTA that visiting vehicles are exempt from the requirement to have it (since only registered vehicles can get CTP) and that in the case of an accident bodily injury is covered by some sort of scheme (don't remember its name though). |
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we are now in fairbanks, alaska. what a shame about australia. there are so much things to be done. the new ruling abt carnet gives me a BIG BIG HEADACHE! and now, the insurance thing that you and i have to go thro. hey, do go so fast! i will be only be in australia in 27nov2009, then to east timor, indonesia, malaysia and singapore. once in singapore, i need to sort out myself and earn more $$$ to host you guys coming over. so, slow down and i can catch up with you to host you in singapore. goh |
I am embarrassed that we (as in Oz beauracracy and therefore by default all Oz citizens) have made your quest to do the right thing such a PITA.
Hope you travels are more in keeping with what you expected when you set out to travel our vast brown land, watch out for drop bears they be dangreous little buggers! |
Sorry I don't have any answers to this predicament, but I suspect that part of the problem is that one doesn't see many foreign vehicles in Australia, and many people in the insurance business have probably never had to deal with this issue.
I lived in Australia for all but the last 12 months of my life (i.e. well over 50 years) and the only non-Australian-registered vehicles that I can ever recall seeing on Aussie roads were a few British cars, one NZ car, one Austrian BMW motorcycle and two Californian Harleys. It seems to me that this may be a problem that needs to be addressed at a political level. Clearly the Australian states need to have a policy that applies throughout the whole country. On a different tack, is it possible to buy anywhere in the world an insurance policy that covers the requirements of every country on the planet? (If any of this doesn't make sense, put it down to the fact that I've had a few glasses of good Aussie red tonight) |
The bureaucracy in NSW around roads / transport is ridiculous. I'm experiencing it in the other direction, taking a NSW vehicle overseas, and I think the point about not many foreign cars / bikes coming here (or leaving) is true. Aus is too far from everywhere else for most people to bother, so bureaucrats just aren't used to dealing with it and it's a classic case of "computer says no".
Regarding worldwide insurance, Campbell Irvine do it but it's in addition to a local policy not instead of. So you buy local 3rd party, then if you want extras like fire and theft or fully comp get that through Campbell Irvine. Nice idea about a worldwide 3rd party though. If it can work in Europe why not elsewhere? |
Jeez, I feel sorry for you Margus :( I must have been rather more fortunate, havin entered via Perth Airport. Mind you, the bureaucracy there was hair rising as well, but somehow I managed to get my bike into OZ more easily.
At the airport the first station was the customs, which was no problem with the carnet. After that quarantine dept. Since the bike was well cleaned, no probs either. Third station was the roadworthiness test. The officer wanted to have the whole bike cheked regarding all specifications necessary to register a new vehicle, like measurements, weight, speed etc. etc. So I told him that the data contained in the carnet had to be enough information for him, because this was an international document which ALL countries accept as such. Phew, he accepted that, and only checked the lights and brakes. Final station was the licensing office to have the bike registered. No, you do not need a local rego, but the vehicle and the foreign rego has to be entered in the computer. All they did was to copy the number plate into the computer and sell me a disc for a third party insurance. This I took as being valid for the whole of OZ. The only problem I ever had was when returning from Tassie to mainland OZ. That :censored: buggar at the ferry entrance tried to argue that the ferry company was not permitted to transport foreign vehicles. I asked him what he thought how the bloody hell I had come to Tassie...?! My god, I always imagined that the bureaucrats where only in Europe, but I had to learn something else... Good luck mate. Just don't let yourself be talked into buying a local rego. I met a Swiss girl whose english wasn't that good to argue with the officials. They forced her to buy a local rego for +/- 500 AUD. Hans |
Hi we are curently touring Oz and asked NSW for an answer here is there reply Hope it helps.
Dear Andrew, Vehicles visiting from overseas must have current overseas registration and their country of origin number plates fitted. These vehicles are exempt from NSW registration and are not issued with an unregistered vehicle permit (UVP). A vehicle exempt from NSW registration is also exempt from the requirement to have compulsory third party insurance. A NSW third party personal injury claim involving a vehicle visiting from overseas is made against the Nominal Defendant Scheme. This scheme is administered by the MAA. If the overseas registration expires while the vehicle is in NSW, the vehicle must be fully registered in NSW if the owner intends to keep using the vehicle. Regards Col |
Andrew, that seems to shed some light on the mystery.
Did that advice come from the RTA or someone else in NSW? And I've heard of the Nominal Defendant but what is the MAA? |
MAA = Motor Accident Authority. The body that overseas the no fault third party system.
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Sorry, I've just seen this thread. The short answer is that under Aussie road laws ALL persons injured in ANY way - pedestrian, driver, passenger - in ANY vehicle - are automatically covered by the TAC provisions of each state. This is deemed NO FAULT coverage, and the benefits are quite generous, including free hospital treatment and care and also compensation for loss of income and partial / full disability in the long term. This is a universal mechanism in which each state recognises all other state's and territory's licensing policies.
Even if you as a local do not have the insurance you still receive the benefits. Yes, you are liable for a fine if you do not have CTP insurance BUT the benefits still remain - you still are entitled to claim for your personal injuries and are automatically covered for injuries you cause EVEN if you didn't pay your state insurance/rego. With regard to NSW, it is clear that there are sufficiently small numbers of people temporarily bringing in vehicles on a carnet that it is not worth it for them to bother requiring it. Good news - you're covered for free! WA and NT are probably the only locales where there are enough vehicles being brought in so they have obviously seen a potential revenue earner and developed a scheme. :( Based on this, if I were planning to bring a vehicle into Australia I would be bringing in to somewhere other than Perth or Darwin so I could save being hit by this additional tax. :) |
Gentlemen,
I do not know any RWT's who have taken any insurance out anywhere in Australia. No one I know has ever been asked for it either. I do not bother with insurance when I ride overseas. Make your own decision. Maybe you can guess which way I would go. |
We came in to Freo got full rego checked then paid $110 aud for 1 years property damage at the RAC in WA it was no hastle it is on our web page. the next year we were in NSW and they sent the reply via email saying we dont need to. we just keep the email in the inbox for proof if questioned then drive cairfuly as your in there country. Its always your fault as we shouldnt be here LOL.
Referance the different states and diffrent rules Ausies ignore them any way and the police are generaly cool and would just like to chat to a POHM, even the parking attendants cant imput the registration numbers in to there little computers as they are set up for Ausi numbers LOL:clap: |
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Hi Farqhuar I suspect that you live in Victoria - as there isnt a TAC system in NSW or the ACT. I am not sure about other the other States and the NT. I think the no-fault concept may be unique to Victoria, though it may cover Victorians who are in other states and visitors to Victoria. In NSW and in the ACT an injured person must claim under the third-party insurance of the person who is at fault. I a driver injures him/herself there is limited cover if it is a car driver (a small lump sum for certain types of injury), but non for a motorbike rider. |
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What is the new rule about carnet in Australia? I will be there in 2 months so maybe i am missing something?? Thank you in advance.. Mehmet |
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Cheers Clint |
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Oh thanks god.. I was waiting some new bad news.. I had carnet already..: Thanks Clint..Best.. |
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