gjackson could you point out which bits misleading since you seem to agree with most?

Bleaches in the UK and Europe that I've looked at for this purpose show a range of contents, I think usually 2-4%. I've not seen one before the US Clorex stating only one value of 6%? But their website says it varies anyway depending on the time of year it was made, the temperature it was kept at and how old it is. Thats a lot of things to take into account after a hot busy day on a trip when you need to rehydrate but have to mix up your bleach dose for 2ppm first. 6% to 2% between brands is a big chunk to be very aware of before you allow for temperature etc! Not very KISS?

BTW a lot of water tank manufacturers for campers etc would not be too impressed if you told them you were using bleach at all

Shopping trip today showed all available bleaches only state less than 5%, so not too helpful for dosing!

Use a chlorine based solution or tablet for purification and a granulated carbon filter such as the General Ecology or even a cheap Brita, to remove the unpleasant chlorine taste. The result is bottled quality water without the environmental negative of discarded plastic.

I understand that Iodine, whilst it is an effective antiseptic, can also be mildly poisonous when ingested. This may explain why some people do not feel well using it. Perhaps an expert can elaborate.

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Paul Driver
www.guesswhereweare.co.uk

I have used the MiniWorks EX microfilter MSR and still alive. Is quick to get fresh water and very resistant for the motorcycle jumps. Also you can buy an extra ceramic element. I think is the best option.

Sorry for the delayed response: was on the road.

Between 2 and 6 % is a gap, but the WHO target of 2.5ppm residual Cl is pretty conservative. If you are on the low side and the bleach has 2% NaOCl but you calculate for 6%, instead of 2.5mg/L you get 0.8mg/L. Is that the end of the world? No. Any Cl in the system will help kill bugs. In mine, I use that treatment in conjunction with a filter that has silver in it as a bacteriacide.

I agree that bleach does go bad (looses Cl), but even in a hot environment, it doesn't go bad very fast. I used 1 small bottle of chlorox (nominal 6% NaOCl) for a 9 month trans-Africa and never had any problems. The solubility of NaOCl in water at 20*C (which would be pretty toasty, but not impossible, for your bottle of bleach in the car) is 8000mg/L.

Bottom line is there are no perfect solutions for treating water. I like my system and I have had luck with it. Your use of the micropur tablets is cool and they are an excellent product. They do have a shelf life, though, one I suspect would be significantly shorter if the tablets are crushed in storage. They also have to be kept in the packaging or they will go bad quickly.

I have used the micropur tablets, and, along with just about all of katadyn's products have been impressed. But 60 tablets into my 60L holding tank is a little more work than I'm looking for.

The milton tablets are a better bet for larger volumes, but what I can't figure out is how milton can claim to kill everything in 15 minutes when it takes every other Cl product 4 hours.:
Milton | Milton Sterilising Tablets

(Yes, that was kidding, they didn't mention cycts by name.)

Well, many camper manufacturers would not be impressed if I told them where I travel either.

cheers

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Graham 'Cracker'
Director: Overland Training
Editor: Overland Journal
Instigator: Africa Overland

"As I posted earlier I use Micropur Forte in the water tank since it has silver in it too, and is very concentrated making a mug sized tub good for 50000 litres!"

Graham as my camper has a fair size tank I also thought the Micropur Forte to be a hassle, at one tablet per litre, too expensive and too much material for more than a week perhaps?

But they also do it in concentrated powder form, which in Europe it seems you can only get through a friendly chemist/drug store and still has a shelf life. It cost me roughly 80 euros, I did post at the time but I can't remember exactly how much, but if you used all of it before its use by date the price per litre is nice and cheap!! I mix it up in concentrated form, and then dose my tank depending how much I put in, seems to work well!

I used micropur powder on a trip to India and back ('93,'94). It was cheap per litre, no hassle, no taste and I never got really sick.

Graeme

Interesting post-
Water being so important, I'd like to suggest the following having read some misleading info above ... (sorry GJackson- there are virtually perfect solutions- as in 99.99% look up LifesaveSystems and viruses can be filtered out- Chlorine in repeated use is bad for you but to mention just one aspect of this chemical)

I've used for many years (since that device came out!)on the bike- Katadyn's Pocket filter (0.2 microns ceramic) and I treat the water with their Micropure forte - It was the best (and I still use it) but it is not as effective at filtration as the new LifeSaver bottle from LifeSaver Systems (filters up to 6 tons of water)

If you have a bigger vehicle, the www. LifeSaverSystems.com ' Jerrycan - Tech sheet here
Soiled liquid in at one end- pure water the other after just a few strokes of the built in pump- it uses (as all their products) membrane technology.
Carbon filters optional - solves the problem of storing and possible cross contamination- a neat all-in-one system. Two types- one can filter 10 tons of water, the other 20 tons !
IMHO, water Problems solved in a very tidy package
(no connection- just a happy customer of both companies)

ONe of the most cost effective, easy to use and effective methods I have seen is the surviva pure system by Thatchreed. I sell it in my shop and the biggest problem is trying to convince people that it really is that good at the price. I haven't included a link to my shop as this isn't the place, but if you want to know just PM me.
here is the link to the Thatchreed site though
Thatchreed Limited=

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1990 Landcruiser H60. Full rebuild completed 2014

Moggy 1968 - the surviva pure system by Thatchreed may well be cost effective perhaps but at what price?
I am at a loss as to why you would want to "convince people it is really good" when clearly it isn't. It may be cheap but its filtration ability is way poor to say the least.

To quote from the Thatchreed site:
"USES ABSOLUTE 2.0 MICRON or 2000 NM FILTRATION WITH TORTUOUS PATH TECHNOLOGY FOR MAXIMUM EFFECTIVENESS."

That filter would let a lot of bad bugs through & is very poor filtration - Bacteria and Viruses would have a field day going through that!

The smallest bacteria measures 200NM (nanometres) whilst the smallest virus measures just about 25 NM. The ultra filtration membranes in the LIFESAVER bottle/jerrycan have pore sizes of only 15 nanometres, this means that no contamination can pass through into the drinking water.
IMHO- no contest for which filtered water I'd rather drink ! and my stomach concurs after a few attacks of 'Monterzuma's revenge' in Africa.
As with so many things in life- you pays yer money etc...!

I can personally recommend the General Ecology First Need XL system.

As bushcraft/survival instructors we have been using these for the last 7 or 8 years both a home and abroad on expeditions and courses. They remove everything (parasites, bacteria and viruses) including chemicals and toxins.

Sometimes in the Sahara they have been used to pump over 20 litres a day and you can set them up to gravity feed through the pump straight in a jerry can etc.

They probably work out slightly more expensive per litre to use than the lifesystems but we find them easier to use and maintain in the field.

Here's a link

Portable Water Purifiers and Micro Water Filters - General Ecology Alpha

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Kev

Interesting Kev but still short on the performance & I'd have to challenge the 'they remove everything' as actually very misleading-
Water cleaning technology is continuously evolving and improving.
1 micron = 1000 NM (Nanometers)
Unless I have mis-read the specs of your filter, it filters from 0.4 to 0.1 micron which is 400 NM to 100NM at best . 100NM will still let many viruses and bacteria through and is a long way short from 15NM!

looked into this long and hard, and weighing up performance against my natural trait of being a tightarse, opted for General Ecology (not the posh silver one, just the plastic job) and frankly the hundred quid or whatever it was turns out to be money well spent. Couple of MOD water jerrys, cheapo pre filter for big crap, then GE filter, leccy pump and a tap - fill water into jerrys from anywhere, and out the other end I get lovely tasty water. Yes, it's tasty, and it's water - if I could get another one to deliver lager I'd die happy. Not feasible for bikes obviously, but on a 4 wheeler why would anyone muck about with chemicals?
We're only a few thousand miles into our trip and I reckon it's paid for itself against buying bottled, and quite often we've found the water tastes nicer too, but again main plus point for me is I don't actually have to do anything : )

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www.simba4x4.com

I have the same unit in my landcruiser; rigged up with a Sureflow electric pump and an 80 litre water tank. I'm delighted with the whole setup.

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Paul Driver
www.guesswhereweare.co.uk

Just got my Katadyn pocket micro filter through,I took it to the steam that runs through the estate i work on that happens to be a nice murky brown due to all the rain we are have in.The water came out the fillter clear and sweet.the flow rate was very good and all in all im very happy with it.
Not the cheapest on the market but as you may not have change the fillter for up to 50,000 liters I think it works out no to bad atall.