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  #61  
Old 24 Apr 2008
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Originally Posted by backofbeyond View Post
The Government's tough new approach will target the estimated one million motorists on our roads driving without insurance.

How shall I understand this: Do you have 1 Million uninsured drivers from NZ on a "round the world trip" and motorists from Poland invading UK with their old, technically unreliable and uninsured vehicles?
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  #62  
Old 24 Apr 2008
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Originally Posted by Fastship View Post
Here is where the "imcompetant British" and the authoritarianism starts to come into play. There is a backlog for entering insurance details onto the database so there are millions of perfectly legally insured vehicles with no entry on the database. The Police however, make no accomodation for these anomolies. Your vehicle is taken. Just as an aside, the police are pressing for this to be a chargable offence in order for them to take your DNA for their ever increasing DNA database (are you seeing a pattern here yet?).
Wow, this is crazy, as shown by the quoted article. I thought the States was screwed?!
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  #63  
Old 24 Apr 2008
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Is the crushing of my car free of charge or will I receive an invoice for the "execution"? Just because I am thinking to get rid of my Landrover. I have paid that much for useless repair last year ----
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  #64  
Old 24 Apr 2008
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The law is an Ass etc etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastship View Post
Check your facts Walkabout, you are wrong!
Yep, that's what I said.

On the technology thing in general: I don't mind it really - the evidence from such systems has been shown to be quite useful in the prosecution and conviction of various criminals, including perpetrators of murder and terrorism.
However, my reservation is more about the reliance that may, or already has, developed on such systems in place of other options - prior prevention/deterance rather than detection after the event. The plethora of TV programmes about "Forensics" really piss me off in this regard, showing a world based on such ideas as being "sexy" and the answer to all of our problems.
Camera technology applied to the roads: well we could go on about this for ever more (and best in another thread).
Ditto for the use of databases that result from gathering raw data (numerous examples of bad publicity for this in the UK!!).

So, we are well away from the gist of the original post:
Assuming that the statements of the original post are correct, my main concern is about the lack of flexibility exhibited by the authorities - this is far from the only case in the UK and it has to be recognised that single, quoted cases do not make good law (just wish our own Government could take that on board).
Apart from a possible lack of judgement on the part of the policeman there is the further lack of flexibility shown in the judgement of the Justice of the Peace (JP): Still assuming that all is as stated in the initial post, then one would expect such a body (they normal sit on the bench in 3s) to use sensible judgement in dealing with individuals. However, if the evidence showed that Marc was blatently ignoring the law .............
Any JPs out there who wish to comment?

About the crushing thing:
Take this one carefully I would suggest. As I understand it, the concept also includes the possibility of selling the vehicle if it has some value - I think those crushed are "past their sell by date", but I could be wrong (again!!).
Such powers have been implemented on the back of blatant lack of regard in the UK for the law relating to vehicles. Yes, there are millions of uninsured drivers in the UK. We are told that there is plenty of evidence that those who use illegal cars on the road are usually involved in other forms of crime (who knows if this is true?).
I have posted elsewhere that the police in the UK now have powers to sieze property on the basis of suspicion alone - this is not unlike Al Capone getting lifted for tax evasion when nothing else could be pinned on him at the time.
Criminals have been flaunting their wealth while having no obvious means of living a life of luxury, fact according to the press, and I, for one, believe this - there are plenty of scumbags on the streets of the UK.

Customs also have the power to impound vehicles at ports of entry - this used to get a lot of adverse press time, but it was often the case that those involved were smuggling.

Enough for now!
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  #65  
Old 24 Apr 2008
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Originally Posted by motoreiter View Post
Wow, this is crazy, as shown by the quoted article. I thought the States was screwed?!
You think this is bad, you ought to see what you get for leaving the lid of your rubbish bin open when the council collection van arrives. BBC NEWS | England | Cumbria | Father fined for overfilling bin

Kuno2 - The Gov are claiming that there are 1,000,000 cars on UK roads with no insurance. I have no idea whether this is realistic or not but I would guess that while some of them may be overlanders passing through, most are supposed to be "deadbeats" who can't be bothered with / can't afford insurance and that crushing their cars will "teach them a lesson".
I'm not certain whether people who have insurance that hasn't shown up on the computer are counted.
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  #66  
Old 24 Apr 2008
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Originally Posted by Kuno2 View Post
Is the crushing of my car free of charge or will I receive an invoice for the "execution"? Just because I am thinking to get rid of my Landrover. I have paid that much for useless repair last year ----

lol good thinking Kuno! - Land Rovers have to be the worst cars in the world. I can not imagine why anyone would trust one of these vehicles. My dad used to sell new London Black cabs in the days when they had land rover engines. One came from the factory and in preparation for the customer there was found to be a loud knock when it was first started up. After plenty of head scratching the only thing left to be done was lift the cylinder head where it was found to be missing a piston. THIS WAS A BRAND NEW, STRAIGHT FROM THE FACTORY LAND ROVER ENGINE!

(In China when they execute your relative they send you the bill for the bullet - something similar?)
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  #67  
Old 24 Apr 2008
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Originally Posted by Kuno2 View Post
How shall I understand this: Do you have 1 Million uninsured drivers from NZ on a "round the world trip" and motorists from Poland invading UK with their old, technically unreliable and uninsured vehicles?
I wish you would stop repeatedly misquoting people. It makes you appear to be trolling the forum for no other purpose than to stir things up.

If you read back, you'll see that the Polish drivers mentioned were quite capable of buying insurance from Tesco's, a large supermarket chain in the UK. Their first language isn't even English, yet they managed perfectly well to keep it all legal.

Unfortunately, there are a large number of people in the UK who are nothing more than work shy parasites, living off charity hand outs from the state and they believe that if they can get away with not paying for something, they'll do it. This people piss me off like you wouldn't believe and we don't want any more like them, whether they are economic migrants from Eastern Europe, so called asylum seekers or RTW travellers from NZ who if they had the initiative to get this far, should really know better. If you come here, stay legal and pay your way, that's great. You'll be made very welcome but we have enough freeloaders of our own in this country as it is.

As for crushing cars, we also pay Road Tax every 6 or 12 months which not paying is another offence that a car can be seized and crushed for, as is repeated anti-social behaviour involving a motor vehicle. This would include wheelieing through the streets of London, Charley Boorman take note.

With this last offence, a check is carried out on the Police National Computer and if it shows you've already had one warning under the Public Order Act, your vehicle will be seized on the spot. No further warnings, no court appearances, nothing. It's a national scheme so if you live in Cornwall and get pulled for the 2nd time in Northumberland, you're pretty well screwed. I'd have to check on what the current fine is but you're also charged for storage which is expensive and that's if you're not a serial offender and they let you have it back. This is designed purely to be a pain in the arse for law breakers though I believe the police terminology is "the disruption of criminal activities".

Last year, Northumbria Police seized a brand new Porsche Carrera GT under the proceeds of crime act. I don't know what happened to it but they could have quite legally sent it to the crusher.
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  #68  
Old 24 Apr 2008
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@ craig76; will not quote you any more. And if I come to UK, I will use plane / public transport / taxi (except such with LR engines!). Don't have the intention to enrich the owners of the crusher plants.
I am just thinking a little bit further now: What is the official UK doing with people who are not insured; I mean with humans without any kind of insurance - no, I do not want to know this. Let us keep the picture out of our heads ;-)
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  #69  
Old 24 Apr 2008
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No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can slag off my government ...........
You can slag off my police ..........
You can slag off my countrymen ............
You can slag off my TV .........


But don't slag of my LAND ROVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm off to cry in the pub!
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Last edited by CornishDeity; 24 Apr 2008 at 18:23.
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  #70  
Old 24 Apr 2008
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[quote=Kuno2;186583: What is the official UK doing with people who are not insured; I mean with humans without any kind of insurance;-)[/quote]

Actually, we have the national health service, the envy of the rest of the world: free to all who live here, depending on the waiting list.
So, no problems, you can go biking, fall off, break your bones and you will be put back together at no charge, even if you have no insurance.
Lots of people want to come here for this alone, but, as Craig explains, some people don't respect what they are given: easy come, easy go.

Ditto, for any other activity: fall off a mountain, break your limbs and you will be put back together again - the mountain rescue won't send you a bill for getting you off the mountain either (try that in, say, Switzerland). Same goes for if you get into trouble off the coast - we will rescue you, and your boat, windsurfer whatever at no charge: the RNLI gave this idea to the rest of the world.

It's good here.
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  #71  
Old 24 Apr 2008
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@ CornishDeity; yes - I cry as well. They promised to call me to tell me, if they can safe it. But they did not dare to do so. I fear the worst. Ok; if my car must die now (having a FULL INSURANCE VALID FOR NORTH AFRICA AS WELL!!!), then at least it is in the correct environment as the vehicle has deserved it and not in a dark & humid garage somewhere in the inner city where the only time the car has experienced "offroad" was that one day when the owner came home completely drunken, missed the entrance to the parking and landed in the neighbours garden. No; I can tell you that it had a good life. But; it's not over yet -better you pray for it instead of crying!!!
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  #72  
Old 24 Apr 2008
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I was going to reply, but you know, I can't be bothered being reasonable.
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  #73  
Old 24 Apr 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkabout View Post
Actually, we have the national health service, the envy of the rest of the world: free to all who live here, depending on the waiting list.
So, no problems, you can go biking, fall off, break your bones and you will be put back together at no charge, even if you have no insurance.
Lots of people want to come here for this alone, but, as Craig explains, some people don't respect what they are given: easy come, easy go.

Ditto, for any other activity: fall off a mountain, break your limbs and you will be put back together again - the mountain rescue won't send you a bill for getting you off the mountain either (try that in, say, Switzerland). Same goes for if you get into trouble off the coast - we will rescue you, and your boat, windsurfer whatever at no charge: the RNLI gave this idea to the rest of the world.

It's good here.

Umm well not quite...

The Road Traffic (NHS Charges) Act 1999 currently permits the Compensation Recovery Unit (CRU) to recover NHS treatment charges arising out of road traffic accidents from compensating motor insurers. The Health & Social Care (Community Health & Standards) Act 2003 provides for the scheme to be extended to cover all cases where a Claimant has made a successful personal injury claim, which will bring in EL, PL and product liability claims in addition to motor.

One reason why insurance premiums are so high and the police are cracking down? Stealth tax by any chance???

My brother was skiing in Switzerland three weeks ago and one of their party broke her leg and was lifted off the mountain without charge. Her leg was very proffesionally set with external splints and no dressing and the Swiss doctors said not to worry about MRSA; that's a British disease they told her.

The NHS is not free to me - two thirds of the price of petrol in my bike is tax as is about 50% of my entire income.

On Monday I have my first dental appointment in two years too. I'm lucky to find one and it's taken me two years to save up for the treatment I'm likely to need. Free it ain;t Still - one great thing about British dentistry is that I can keep my visor propped open with my lower incisor

Lastly, when I asked my GP last year not to upload my medical records to the NHS spine I was told the state owned my medical not me and the only way I could prevent him uploading my records to the governemnt's national database was if I withdrew from the NHS. I did and as a consequence I have no NHS entitlement even though I still pay the same taxes and can't afford private health coverage.
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  #74  
Old 24 Apr 2008
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Dentist!!

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On Monday I have my first dental appointment in two years too. I'm lucky to find one and it's taken me two years to save up for the treatment I'm likely to need. Free it ain;t Still - one great thing about British dentistry is that I can keep my visor propped open with my lower incisor
This thread is so off topic now....so in for a penny....

I visited the dentist yesterday - first time in 8 years. I need £200 worth worth of work. However, 6 monthly check ups for 8 years, plus the same work comes to £520!

Bargain
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  #75  
Old 24 Apr 2008
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Wink We all have a vote - kick them out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastship View Post
Umm well not quite...

The Road Traffic (NHS Charges) Act 1999 currently permits the Compensation Recovery Unit (CRU) to recover NHS treatment charges arising out of road traffic accidents from compensating motor insurers. The Health & Social Care (Community Health & Standards) Act 2003 provides for the scheme to be extended to cover all cases where a Claimant has made a successful personal injury claim, which will bring in EL, PL and product liability claims in addition to motor.

One reason why insurance premiums are so high and the police are cracking down? Stealth tax by any chance???

My brother was skiing in Switzerland three weeks ago and one of their party broke her leg and was lifted off the mountain without charge. Her leg was very proffesionally set with external splints and no dressing and the Swiss doctors said not to worry about MRSA; that's a British disease they told her.

The NHS is not free to me - two thirds of the price of petrol in my bike is tax as is about 50% of my entire income.

On Monday I have my first dental appointment in two years too. I'm lucky to find one and it's taken me two years to save up for the treatment I'm likely to need. Free it ain;t Still - one great thing about British dentistry is that I can keep my visor propped open with my lower incisor

Lastly, when I asked my GP last year not to upload my medical records to the NHS spine I was told the state owned my medical not me and the only way I could prevent him uploading my records to the governemnt's national database was if I withdrew from the NHS. I did and as a consequence I have no NHS entitlement even though I still pay the same taxes and can't afford private health coverage.
Hi again,
Yes, I was aware of the first bit in broad terms, without being able to quote the bell, book and candle.
Yep, there is a move toward getting the insurance companies involved which could act as some sort of check on bad claims I guess: going right off topic again, you will recognise that there are many initiatives to catch out those who are less than honest in their daily lives (the latest = the ex-town mayor who has been discovered to be claiming £1000s in benefits for disability while being an active football referee).
I understand that the ins company pay a contribution toward the removal of a traffic accident victim to the hospital (which is paid by the ins, not the individual = about £100?); thereafter, the treatment is still free.
I would not describe it as a "tax" - differentiation of what is medical treatment and other aspects (but, yep, we could be paying for food in hospital next - why not, you have to when at home?).

I could not blame the executive arm (the police) for doing as they are told in any particular "crackdown": the direction comes from the politicians, increasingly from Local Govn which is receiving increasing powers from central Govn.

Switzerland: don't really know enough - I have always understood that there are liabilities for rescue on the mountains (try calling out a helicopter ), but that was some years ago.

We all pay taxes, unless you are extremely rich: all tax is not ring-fenced, but the NHS is still free.
Yep, dentists have opted out: the Govn have failed to tie them in and they are ripping off their clients as private patients (I know one or two who openly brag about their income) - they must be charging about the same as a BMW main dealer's hourly rate!
It is not a perfect system I would agree. Teeth and eyes are neglected items!

On the final point we are back to databases and what to do with them: that is a biggy!
How about the idea to make it compulsory that you are an organ donor unless you opt out (the opposite of the present system)? -- over my dead body!!!!!!!!!! Now that is one that I do object to.

Apologies to one and all!
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