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  #16  
Old 13 Feb 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gipper
Moggy,
yeah, the civvy jerrys are tosh, that sounds about right for the army...we just put stickers on our cans in the RAF !!!

Dodger, the cetane content of diesel depends on the quality of oil it was made from and the amount of addatives blended into it, seems like the cetane rating varies considerably between tanker loads....

Also petrol shouldnt be added to diesel if possible, it thins out the diesel - considerably affecting the lubricity, which knackers the fuel pump - especially so, when used in low sulphur diesels.
it also makes the diesel burn hotter, which overheats the injector tips, also with some pre detonation in there too , as the only thing keeping them cool is the flow of diesel fuel through them. finally, the high octane reduces the cetane level and reduces performance.

Id stick with anti gelling agents and Kero as mentioned in very cold conditions - and use a block heater or the lantern method - you can also use insulation around the fuel lines - but no open flame under the vehicles engine bay - as it tends to ingnite oil crud build up around the engine and sump - as Ive seen happen under a Bedford MK in Norway !!!
Yep it's petrol [ gasoline] for emergencies only . Sometimes you just have to .

One thing I have seen done is to wrap the fuel line around the exhaust manifold to warm the fuel ,assuming of course that the fuel line is made of soft copper and the fuel is fluid enough to reach as far as the manifold .
[This is how the Lister diesel guys get their engines to run on waste cooking oil .]

But a Panda ?

I think I hear Michael Palin calling .
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  #17  
Old 13 Feb 2007
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Panda in the Dakar

Somewhere in december or so I found out that two panda's would compete in the dakar. I always had an intrest in cheap/light/economic/capable vehicles so I thought this would be intresting to follow somewhat. They didn't make it into Mauritania though. Anyone an idea what happened to them?

I'm not sure wether I'd like to take a petrol injected car into 'bad fuel country' though.
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  #18  
Old 13 Feb 2007
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Ah the PanDakar? Apparently modified Panda Crosses, with a turbo added onto the 1.3 litres multijet diesels, a 6 speed box and 105hp. I gather both retired, I think one bogged and suffered a mechanical, and the other bogged, and by the time they'd got out they were too late for the stage.

Not that them retiring would put me off, I think they probably suffered a lot more on the Dakar than they would pootling through the Stans.

The Berlingo looks interesting too, but there's something about the FIAT that attracts me, I think it's precisely because it IS so small, and anyway like I said before if you can pack it on a bike, you can pack it in a Panda (sounds like a catch phrase).

Having talked to FIAT today, there did seem to be the idea that the petrol would be better, easier to fix if things went wrong, and less likely to go wrong anyway. Also it's an older Fiat engine that's been around for a good few years apparently and has had to cope with the poor fuels of Eastern Europe (when it was much more Eastern that it is now). I was also advised by a Fiat mechanis that it's very easy to "chip" to make up for the power difference between petrol and diesel (if not the torque), as the Panda petrol is a detuned version anyway. And they both share the same transmission, so that's not a problem anyway.

So now I'm just left to puzzle over the Michael Palin reference.
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  #19  
Old 13 Feb 2007
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Hi Rob, hows it going ?, heres a link to the story:

http://www.italiaspeed.com/2007/moto...1101/1101.html


Alex, Yeah, I know what you mean with the Fiat over the Citroen...go for it....
you could try and talk to the Fiat PD team and blag some of the trick bits they put on theres - like the sump guard - Im not joking either - try it........if you dont ask you dont get....they might give you some form of support, as they are obviously trying to promote the car...........after all theyve just spent a serious chunk of money entering the PD.

later
Grif
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  #20  
Old 14 Feb 2007
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Thanks for the link Griff.

I'm fine. I'll meet with HR tomorow to arrange 3 months leave to ride around the caspian sea this summer. Car prep is currently all in my head. I'm thinking about extended bump stops, maybe niva springs in the back of the 2104, a superlight roof tent (using my old tunnel), change the carb to a non-cat and remove the cat, decent stereo, zebra print interior, and converting the back seat into a storrage compartement.

Enough to keep me happy.

cheers,

Rob
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  #21  
Old 14 Feb 2007
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"" So now I'm just left to puzzle over the Michael Palin reference ""

"
Michael Palin - "Ripping Yarns - Crossing the Andes by Frog "
[ Crossing Mongolia by Panda ?]

It's a bit of a tenuous link ,I know , but then I am an aged old bastard with a wierd sense of humour.

[ I enjoy Palin's recent programs too, adventure touring off the beaten track with a curious humourous schoolboy twist .]

Have a great trip !
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Last edited by Dodger; 19 Feb 2007 at 05:34.
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  #22  
Old 15 Feb 2007
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genrally I would always advocate diesel for expedition work, but in your case I wouldn't!! mainly for the reasons given previously. I think you may have problems with the complexity of the diesel engine and the very small bore of the injectors which won't cope at all well with poor quality or waxy diesel.

Make sure you use steel wheels as well. your tyres aren't very deep and there are potholes in these places that would swallow a panda whole!! steel wheels you can bash back into shape, alloys you can't. I would also suggest two spares, you can't guarantee the availability of new tyres where you are going. Carry a couple of tubes for emergencies. For tyres you may be able to find a mud and snow type tyre designed for rally cars in your sort of wheel sizes.
We had a panda 4x4 accompany us through the desert on the Plymouth to Dakar a couple of years back, see the link below for the book. It also contains a section on preparing cars for a journey of this type.

eBay.co.uk: Me, dad, and the Plymouth to Dakar new book (item 150043455542 end time 05-Mar-07 12:05:23 GMT)

Last edited by moggy 1968; 15 Feb 2007 at 12:42. Reason: spelling eroorr!!
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  #23  
Old 15 Feb 2007
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eh voila, although it didn't spend all of it's time broken down!!
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Petrol or Diesel? - Trans Stans and Mongolia-panda.jpg  

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  #24  
Old 18 Feb 2007
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Thanks Moggy, nice to see a Panda broken down, I reassure myself by thinking it's the old type.

I'd thought of steel wheels too, especially as it's possible to get 15" steel wheels which opens up a whole extra range of tyre choice.

Speaking to FIAT they seem to say what we've all said, petrol is simpler, and whilst they're sure diesel wouldn't be a problem petrol would be even less of one.
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  #25  
Old 3 Mar 2007
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Panda overlanda

One issue with your Panda... spares availability? (second - tyre size on wet and crummy non-roads?)
Durability vs crazy Stanistanian drivers?
Fuel system tolerance for dodgy fuel?
Field-maintainability?

Mind you if it breaks you could always carry it to the garage (Sorry!!!)
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  #26  
Old 3 Mar 2007
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Well I suppose apart from something Russian built the spares issues going to be the same for a lot of things nowadays. But Fiat is has a fairly decent sales network in what was Eastern Europe, so we're Ok for the start of the trip. After that we're basically on our own till China, when Fiat pops up again. I guess it'll just have to be a case of managing like everyone else.

Tyre size? Well there's always the option of going up to 15" like the Cross which opens up more choice (yes Fiat says they'll fit, we even tried one).

Fuel system tolerance? well the same applies to anything modern, unfortunately, but I'm told by FIAT France (in a rare communicative moment) that because the Panda's built for all sorts of markets including Eastern European that it shouldn't be too bad as far as octane ratings are concerned. Dirty fuel? well that's what the thread is about, I still reckon petrol would be better than CRD.

Field maintenance? It's only 10,000 miles and a fair amount of that will be on half decent roads, it's really only Mongolia that poses the problem, it'll cope I'm sure, and like you say, I can always pick it up and put it on a yak.
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Last edited by Alexlebrit; 3 Mar 2007 at 11:32.
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