Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB

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-   4WD Overland TRAVEL (http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/4wd-overland-travel/)
-   -   Off topic? (http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/4wd-overland-travel/off-topic-56803)

Neil 25 Apr 2011 16:20

Off topic?
 
Hi guys! :offtopic:

As a 2 wheeled fiend who enjoys travelling I've come to the HUBB... :scooter: However, my next big adventure will be on 4 wheels, and I have no idea where to look to ask, research, and learn about my next trip.

Does anyone know of a 4 wheeled overlanding forum? (and I should stress I said 4 wheels ... that's not to say 4x4). I see lots of websites for 4x4 overlanders but they just look like a weekend warrior tour package sites. I want the nitty gritty... tech questions about where i can find my "One Life Live It!" stickers... or how many sand ladders I need to look competent or what's the best colour scheme for my jerry cans if I have at least 4m^2 of checker plate covering my vehicle. ;)

Well, maybe regardless of this detail if anyone may know the answer to this very primary question: Permanently importing a vehicle into Mongolia... so far my searches have only shown me that vehicles over 10 years old are substantially more expensive to import. However, where is all this information written?

I'd love to know more... places to look.

Neil :)

graysworld 25 Apr 2011 17:20

it is good here!
 
Hi Neil,

I would say that this is a good place to start 4x4 or not there are experienced people on here from all walks of life and with many different vehicles. Just ask your questions and you will receive honest practical advice.

Good luck Graeme

Grant Johnson 26 Apr 2011 04:33

This seems to be the "HUBB" for serious 4 wheeled travellers too - I'm often told stuff similar to what you said above. :)

Besides, 2 and 4 wheels have more or less the same issues everywhere so much of it is relevant to both.

I'm very curious - WHY would you want to permanently import a vehicle into Mongolia? I have no info myself on rules for importing into Mongolia, sorry - but someone must know!

Neil 28 Apr 2011 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grant Johnson (Post 333594)
Besides, 2 and 4 wheels have more or less the same issues everywhere so much of it is relevant to both.

Duly noted and mostly agreed with. However, 4 wheeled specific stuff like, raising the vehicle (from stock suspension) and changing wheel sizes, are things I'm seriously considering, and I'm in the situation of: never-done-it-before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grant Johnson (Post 333594)
I'm very curious - WHY would you want to permanently import a vehicle into Mongolia? I have no info myself on rules for importing into Mongolia, sorry - but someone must know!

I'm intending on doing something very similar to the Mongol Rally without participating in the event, in a 400-500cc car and at my leisure. Ultimately, selling the vehicle on once in Ulan Bator.

Fantastic Mister Fox 28 Apr 2011 17:13

Why not ask the adventurists (who run the mongol rally) they may offer some assitance or information about importing the vehicle into mongolia??

The Adventurists :: fighting to make the world less boring

Matt Cartney 28 Apr 2011 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 333851)
I'm intending on doing something very similar to the Mongol Rally without participating in the event, in a 400-500cc car and at my leisure.

I just had a mental picture of a FIAT 500 (the proper one, not the new one) jacked up like a mini-monster truck! Would LOVE to see pix of that! :thumbup1:

What kind of car are you thinking?

Matt

Neil 28 Apr 2011 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Cartney (Post 333893)
I just had a mental picture of a FIAT 500 (the proper one, not the new one) jacked up like a mini-monster truck! Would LOVE to see pix of that! :thumbup1:

What kind of car are you thinking?

Matt

Hehe... similar... only not that jacked up. ;)



Having had plenty of experience trying to wreck an Aixam micro-car....
http://homepages.enterprise.net/jayj...aixam/KU01.jpg <= not this car... but this is what it looks like when not naked.

...the past few years in spain:


..and it proving near indestructible, uber-efficient ~80mpg (and runs on diesel), weighs 380kgs and can be lifted on 2 wheels by a mere mortal. So with that established, I'm keen to buy one in the UK and making it overland-spec:
  1. A little more ground clearance,
  2. Standard car wheel size so that tyres are easier to come by.
  3. A little (not too much) reinforcement for the underside, and lower sides
  4. And taking on suggestions.

Matt Cartney 30 Apr 2011 00:34

Ha ha ha! That is fantastic! :thumbup1:

Would you ever get it through an MOT though? ;)

I like the alternative approach - very few people seem to realise the benefits of small and light instead of big and powerful. I took a sub 1 litre Citroen AX to Morocco (OK a regular gas guzzler by your standards!) and I found it surprisingly good on the modest off-roading that I did. The fact it was worth about £400 helped when you heard things go 'bang' and 'crack'! It had done about 85K when I took it to Maroc and lived on to do 130k before the suspension finally gave up and it was uneconomical to keep on the road. I genuinely really miss that car! Had loads of great adventures in it! I've seen pre-war Austin 7s get up stuff you wouldn't believe on off-road hill climb events.

Of course when us Brits were bashing around the world in Land Rovers the French were doing great things, especially in the desert, in 2CVs. Always had a bit of a hankering for a 2CV.

Best of luck sorting out your motor!

Matt :)

twobob 30 Apr 2011 02:37

Oh Dear, After niggling the bike gear heads on this site, I have to admit that I have all the bling for Australian 4x4 desert touring :blushing:
Large vehicles carry more gear so are necessary for long trips but small short-wheel bases are more fun.
There are few stock vehicles that can handle true off-road conditions, so after-market additions are required.
Lift-kit - no more than 2" ( if using roof racks put only lite equipment on top as the C of G shift is one of the main causes of roll over)
Diff-lock ( air operated ) turns any fourbie into a tractor, and allows you to inflate tyres, (reduce to 12- 16 psi when in sand).
Gas shocks and large springs ( ride will be stiffer but will handle the BIG hits )
The only real bullbars are steel, but heavy, anything else is a joke.
Twin batteries and isolator - we do like all our battery draining toys
Long range fuel and water tanks Mongolia is drier than outback Oz
EPIRB - emergency beacon
Engine exhaust inflated car jacks are much better than large steel jacks in sand
Do this and you are unstoppable .

Neil 1 May 2011 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by twobob (Post 334085)
Oh Dear, After niggling the bike gear heads on this site, I have to admit that I have all the bling for Australian 4x4 desert touring :blushing:
Large vehicles carry more gear so are necessary for long trips but small short-wheel bases are more fun.
There are few stock vehicles that can handle true off-road conditions, so after-market additions are required.

Lift-kit - no more than 2" ( if using roof racks put only lite equipment on top as the C of G shift is one of the main causes of roll over) 15" wheels should give 1" rise, and then doing the lift of an inch should be fine.
Diff-lock ( air operated ) turns any fourbie into a tractor, and allows you to inflate tyres, (reduce to 12- 16 psi when in sand). It's a 2wd micro-car with fwd... not really an option in this situation. But i'll consider it.
Gas shocks and large springs ( ride will be stiffer but will handle the BIG hits ) I'll see what's available, wont rule it out.
The only real bullbars are steel, but heavy, anything else is a joke. I can't say if bull bars on a micro-car are necessary, but i'll consider it.
Twin batteries and isolator - we do like all our battery draining toys I will definitely consider this
Long range fuel and water tanks Mongolia is drier than outback Oz It may come in the shape of jerrycans... the car was designed for city driving, and to be dumped off in mongolia, no intention of getting anything specially fabbed up.
EPIRB - emergency beacon Really?? Where's the fun in getting lost?
Engine exhaust inflated car jacks are much better than large steel jacks in sand It's a 380kg car... i'll consider an inflatable dingy
Do this and you are unstoppable .

twobob 1 May 2011 23:17

Hey Neil The info was just general for all cars
it might have been a a typo but you wrote "I want the nitty gritty... tech questions "
To be honest the vehicle you have chosen will be found wanting. It will be loaded to the gunnels and heavy for its original design I agree that small is fun
but you want to go to Mongolia, not to be taken lightly ('scuse pun)
But if you are still keen, A portable air compressor to re-inflate tyres , twin batteries, (solar panel maybe) snatch strap
It maybe a 350 kg car, but how much gear, food,fuel, water etc. it will add up
The EPIRB (emergency positioning radio indicating beacon) should not be an option. I have never fired one off but they have been the best money I've spent for peace of mind, time is of essence when remote and injured.

tacr2man 2 May 2011 16:08

Why not just start off with a van , commercial vehicle , as found by many people in Australia , 90% of the time these will take you anywhere a 4x4 will and are built strong enough to take punishment for quite a time., and will give you reasonable payload .
2WD preferably with a live back axle , as more robust than front drive shafts. Fit 8pr light truck tyres , look at exhaust for routing, or vulnerability ground clearance is very important.
Set of tyre chains for mud , amazing where they will take you compared with tyres only. Most 4x4 are overkill as locals dont drive 4x4 in most places.
Most cars will take a lot more modding , and are designed down to market usage , that is relatively soft . You also want less fruit that can fail, eg lecky windows etc .
A good few years back they designed a car for africa that was made of ply with austin 1100 powertrain , and drove down thru africa , cant find any references to it at the moment , but it looked at all the sort of things you will be contemplating . HTSH

Matt Cartney 3 May 2011 10:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by tacr2man (Post 334408)
.
A good few years back they designed a car for africa that was made of ply with austin 1100 powertrain , and drove down thru africa , cant find any references to it at the moment , but it looked at all the sort of things you will be contemplating . HTSH

Sounds like the 'Africar' that was based on a 2CV. I dunno why they don't make more cars out of plywood...

Citroen 2CV-based Africar

:)

Neil 3 May 2011 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Cartney (Post 334529)
Sounds like the 'Africar' that was based on a 2CV. I dunno why they don't make more cars out of plywood...

Citroen 2CV-based Africar

:)

I am just loving that name!! What a brilliant idea...

However, we (my spanish friends and I) found that the Aixam in all it's vulnerabilities is in fact a very sturdy car. We've managed to drive up hill with 17 people on board... for a car that was intended as a 2 seater that's good going.
Managed to get it to get some air-time racing it off of ramps... and I personally managed to roll it with 3 of us onboard... and without stalling it, on account of the auto-transmission.

I appreciate the suggestions of other vehicles, however, I'm sort of out to prove this vehicle can do it, in spite of all the nay saying and rational arguments against.

twobob 4 May 2011 00:36

:rofl: Your'e a man after my own heart Neil
Ok now I can put the big brother "caution guy" away
This is the sort of vehicle ,and trip ,many hardcore fourbie riders talk about, and many have a project in their sheds, little suzukis old landies etc. So I think it would be a hoot, I'm in.
Questions
How many travelling with you ?, people , vehicles
How many klms are you expecting to cover in one day?
Are you using this car for pure transport or a mix of fun/transport ?
I'm going to search the specs. on this car, I'll get back to you.


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